Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
SiFi270

Doom 1 and 2 star different marines (overanalyzing the manual stories??????)

Recommended Posts

I was just rereading the backstories and noticed some interesting things.

 

Doom1guy, as we all know, killed the demons on Phobos after his fellow marines had been unsuccessful. But this isn't how things went for Doom2guy.

Quote

When the alien invasion struck Mars, you were the first on the scene. By killing, killing, and killing, you won. You stopped the invasion, saved Mars base, and became a war hero.

It may sound dubious, or even contradictory, that he singlehandedly stopped the invasion (without any mention of a visit to Hell), but as far as he knows, that's how it went down. As far as he knows, all the marines sent to Phobos were killed by the "aliens". He could never imagine that one of them was literally sent to Hell and then fought his way out, taking down the real Mastermind in the process. He goes through a portal to Earth while Doom2guy gets transported back by the military. You'd think the portal would allow Doom1guy to get there faster, but there's no telling how long detours like Thy Flesh Consumed and Sigil take him. Whenever it is they arrive, they're both greeted with the same sight. Earth is in ruin.

 

So do they team up? Is Doom 2 canonically a co-op game? How I wish I could say "maybe". But unfortunately...

Quote

You and your comrades make their attack. Soon, brave men drop like flies. You lose track of your friends, though sometimes you can hear them scream when they die, and the sounds of combat echo from deep within the starbase. [...] No one's left but you. You...and Them.

So the only way I can see Doom1guy surviving this is if he's still busy with additional episodes like Evil Unleashed and Visions of Eternity at this point. But then which of them do you play as in later games? Doom2guy seems a likely candidate for TNT, because that game's story also alludes to him having nightmares about the monsters he fought. The stories for both halves of Final Doom linked above honestly feel like similar events going on around the same time, so maybe Doom1guy's the one going through Plutonia during all that.

 

But whichever one it is in Doom 64, they're referred to as the "only experienced survivor", suggesting the other has died. Considering the hints in modern games that we're still playing as that survivor, and the hints that he's still out to avenge Daisy, I'm guessing it's Doom1guy.

 

Before I go I'm just gonna go ahead and tag @Revenant100 because if no one else takes me seriously I'm sure I can count on him.

Edited by SiFi270

Share this post


Link to post

I've got a transcript of all the classic Doom manuals and in-game story text. When you read from the end of E4 into the beginning of the Doom2 manual, everything seems to imply that it's all been the same guy.

 

There is a plot hole: the Doom2 manual mentions you "returning from leave" after the end of E4, which makes you assume at least a few months would have passed, but then in both the in game story text and manual, you land back on Earth only to find more demons.

 

Going for a few months of leave right after the end of E4 only to come home and find demons doesn't really make sense. It adds up more, for both the in-game text and the manual, that Doomguy returned to Earth almost instantly after the end of E4 to begin the events of Doom2. Especially given that, when we see him with Daisy, you can clearly see that he's back on Earth in front of a city, about to begin Doom2.

 

Despite that plot inconsistency, everything seems to clearly imply it's all the same guy. Judge for yourselves though, don't take my word.

Quote

END OF EPISODE 4

The spider mastermind must have sent forth its legions of hellspawn before your final confrontation with that terrible beast from hell.  But you stepped forward and brought forth eternal damnation and suffering upon the horde as a true hero would in the face of something so evil. Besides, someone was gonna pay for what happened to Daisy, your pet rabbit. But now, you see spread before you more potential pain and gibbitude as a nation of demons run amok among our cities. Next stop, Hell on Earth!

THE STORY CONTINUES...DOOM II: Hell on Earth

Back at last. After days of hard fighting in space, you've returned home on well-earned leave. You're one of Earth's crack soldiers, hard-bitten, tough, and heavily-armed. When the alien invasion struck Mars, you were the first on the scene. By killing, killing, and killing, you won. You stopped the invasion, saved Mars base, and became a war hero. What they don't talk about so much is that you were the only survivor.

But that's all behind you now. You've quit the military, and are heading home. Your drop pod lands with a crunch. You open 'er up and look out. Damn! The city ahead is on fire. What the devil is going on? You stagger forward, clutching at your sidearm. Packs of refugees are fleeing the flaming metropolis. A band of them shriek in terror. You squint. What's that? Someone is attacking the refugees. You rush up and blast away, killing the troublemaker. It looks like a human but something's wrong. His mouth is filled with half-chewed flesh, and he's all messed up, like a zombie from a bad horror movie. Hell, not again!

You can feel it. It's all starting again, just like on Mars. First, people are taken over, turned into cannibal Things. Then the real horror starts, the deformed monstrosities from Outside. But now it's on Earth!

It turns out that the invaders are all over. Monsters range from Tokyo to Timbuktu, from Stockholm to Scranton. Billions are dead. Some people have been transformed into flesh-eating mutants, but a few, a very few, are still alive and fully human. The wise men of humanity have evolved a plan to save what's left of the human race. They have built enormous ships to carry the remaining people into space, safely away from the ruined world.

Unfortunately, Earth's only ground spaceport has just been taken over by the demons. They've instituted a sort of force field -- a flame barrier -- over the port; no ships can land or take off. You gotta go back into action. The pathetic remnants of Earth's soldiers are making an assault on the invaders at the spaceport. If you win, you might be able to turn off the barrier, so that the ships can leave, and Homo sapiens may not go extinct just yet. If you lose, that's it. Humanity is history.

You and your comrades make their attack. Soon, brave men drop like flies. You lose track of your friends, though sometimes you can hear them scream when they die, and the sounds of combat echo from deep within the starbase.

Something hisses with rage from the steel tunnels ahead. They know you're here. They have no pity, no mercy, take no quarter, and crave none. They're the perfect enemy, in a way. No one's left but you. You...and Them.

 

Here's a version of the story transcript that also includes the in-game stories: https://doomshack.org/doomstory.html

Edited by Doomkid

Share this post


Link to post

I'm pretty sure the story in the Doom 2 manual was bullshit that GT Interactive made up. (This is the same manual that calls the SSG the "Combat Shotgun" for some confounding reason.) It doesn't match up with what happens in Doom 1's ending and especially with Thy Flesh Consumed being added to the picture effectively retconning that stupidity, making it clear that Doom 2 happens as soon as you return to Earth. Of course, this is assuming that id even cared about all of this, which they most likely didn't lol.

Share this post


Link to post

Honestly, over analysing classic Doom cannon is silly. It was probably written down in five minutes on the back of a bar snacks menu. But no, they were clearly the same guy even if certain details of the story do not quite gel due to the aforementioned "Oh right, the story, ummm... gimme a minute..." attitude.

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

Honestly, over analysing classic Doom cannon is silly.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why you provided any input if you just think it's silly.  Smiley face.

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Grain of Salt said:

They sure have similar faces.

Same face, same facial expressions even, same voice ... hmmm

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

There is a plot hole: the Doom2 manual mentions you "returning from leave" after the end of E4, which makes you assume at least a few months would have passed

Lol "Ok, I finally avenged the death of my precious rabbit, oh and also my fellow space marines and a bunch of UAC employees and whatever, now it's time... to take on the forces of Hell that have taken over EARTH!!! But first I'm gonna hit Vegas for a few weeks, cool off y'know?"

Share this post


Link to post

My timeline theory:

 

Doom 1 happens, Doomguy continues his fight through Thy flesh Consumed and Sigil, He returns to earth to see it is infested.

Meanwhile a 2nd marine survives the onslaught by hell and battles his way through the hordes but ultimately is killed before he could reach the Hell portal, Doom1guy follows the carnage trail and finds the Hell portal and defeats the Icon of sin, He retires but is shortly reinstated to battle once again in Doom64, He decides to stay in hell and eventually becomes the Doom slayer, (Doom 2016 happens)

Edited by Morpheus666

Share this post


Link to post

It's obvious, Phobosguy lived and died in episode 1 so he's Doomguy1 or VirginDoomer, whereas Deimosguy made it all the way to the end of Thy Flesh Consumed so he would be Doomguy2 or ChadDoomer. Doomguy3 is thus Earthguy but was only in the Earth campaign, so that means Doomguys 4 and 5 were each for Final Doom, and then there's Doomguy6(4) for Doom 64. That would then mean that the Doomslayer is actually the seventh Doomguy and the only Doomguy who got his second game with Eternal!

Believe it people!

Share this post


Link to post

I bet some of y'all will accuse me of pulling a MattPat if I say I know it's clearly not what any writers of anything intended but it's still interesting to consider. But that is why the part of the thread title in parenthesis is there and was there from the beginning. The one edit was to change "transported back to the military" to "transported back by the military". I know, it's fascinating.

 

And it's also true that I needed to be a little hypocritical to make this work, by ignoring the part in Doom 1's story where it says all the marines on Mars were sent to Phobos, they were the only soldiers close enough to get there in time, and all but one of them died, the last one being Doom1guy. So what's Doom2guy doing on Mars? All I've got is conjecture; maybe they didn't want to put their eggs in one basket because they figured there was still a chance for something like this to happen on Mars itself, and happen it did. I also choose to ignore it saying that Deimos completely vanished because in E2's ending it just seems to be the chunk of it the base was on.

 

Quote

but they look and sound the same

Do they?

2guys.png.3d1fccce4cfd98b2b1d1ed24a2a36d58.png

I know that's still problematic, because the one on the left appearing at the end of E4 suggests he's Doom1guy, and his appearance in Doom 2's artwork suggests he's Doom2guy. Two possible explanations are that the E4 ending is a look through Doom1guy's eyes at Doom2guy, who's carrying Daisy's head not because it was his bunny but because he's outraged at the demons' cruelty all the same. Or Doom 2's artwork is just an unrelated picture of Doom1guy even though that's not who you're playing as.

 

As for the sounds, it wouldn't be that different from how the three unquestionably distinct main characters of Quake 2 and its mission packs sound the same, and also similar, but not identical, to Ranger in Q1. Don't all three of Doom 3's main characters also use the same sounds?

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Lila Feuer said:

Believe it people!

Nope. Doomguy did not die at the end of episode 1 and nothing will convince me otherwise. He made it all the way from Doom 1 till TNT/Plutonia.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi, me again. I was just going over something I'd already read, overthinking it, and then noticing something that made me unable to stop overthinking it.

 

This time, the thing I was reading was this thread, and what I noticed was a familiar pattern. I was reminded of threads where someone comes along and says something to upset people, usually something like "fondly regarded wad sucks" but with more paragraphs, and then a more familiar face comes along and knocks down everything they've written with a single sentence, earning them tons of positive reacts. I know you're not supposed to read too much into reacts, that it's especially silly to read too much into someone getting more than you do, and I'm fully aware of the irony that Grain of Salt made the "offending" post and their name is exactly what I should be taking it with, and I'm probably being hurt more by what I'm imagining than what they or anyone else intended.

 

But it's because of that pattern that I feel like I was dismissed as a troll and everyone had a good laugh, and like the people behind the threads known for this pattern, I was just doing it to upset people or something. And in hopes of getting this idea out of my head, I'd like to ask people: What kind of response do you think I was hoping for? Because after thinking in circles for so long I'm really not sure myself.

 

I'm pretty sure this is really just a case of my overactive imagination fighting my self esteem and I probably shouldn't be getting you guys involved because you're not my therapist(s), but I want to try getting it off my chest anyway. There are a lot of times I abort a post or comment somewhere because of some of the responses I imagine getting, but this time it really feels like I should take a chance.

 

Because I thought so much about what I was going to say here while away from a computer, there are a lot of points that probably went through my mind exactly once before disappearing forever. I can only hope it wasn't anything too important to what I wanted to say.

 

EDIT: wait here's one. I really hope no one thinks I'm playing the "mental health problems of some kind" card in hopes of getting people to bow down and agree with me out of pity or something. They're real problems I and others (maybe even you, if so best of luck with it) have that I have under control most of the time, which makes it all the sillier that this of all things leads to an exception. I'm still pretty sure I want absolute honesty in my question above.

Edited by SiFi270

Share this post


Link to post

It's an interesting and kinda entertaining thought OP, but it's not gonna conclude to canon truth at the end of the day. The official canon is pretty thin & full of loose ends & gaps anyways, which is kinda cool since it allows us to fill those gaps with stuff we can imagine would flesh out the story, particularily for any wad offerings one might make.

 

You could say every time Doom marine dies, it's a different Doom marine that picks up where he left if you load your last save - fits as well into the whole multiple contingencies schpiel as anything, so sure - why not - they could by defintion be concluded to be different characters. In some ways, the more you delve into the literal details of the plotlines of the games, the less of a singular Doom marine you're left with. Helps to look at him with kinda blurred vision in places, to keep him one. :)

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, SiFi270 said:

But it's because of that pattern that I feel like I was dismissed as a troll and everyone had a good laugh

I don't think so, why do you say this? Some answered seriously, some discounted your theory, it's all good.

 

Discussions about Doom lore are never without jokes!

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×