This is Woof! 12.0.0 (Sep 15, 2023)

[s4f3s3x]

Is it possible to activate smooth pixel scaling as in Crispy?

It's true that is not that big of a thing, but I get the impression it makes playing the game just a little bit less eye straining

[fabian]

45 minutes ago, s4f3s3x said:

Is it possible to activate smooth pixel scaling as in Crispy?

It's true that is not that big of a thing, but I get the impression it makes playing the game just a little bit less eye straining

 

With high resolution rendering enabled, the effect is negligible. There was even once a bug report about this for Crispy Doom. 

[maxmanium]

Woof! does not seem to load certain Boom/MBF-specific lumps in pwads -- I know this was the case with the OG ports so it's probably just leftover from there. I'm talking about lumps found in e.g. dsda-doom.wad like M_COLORS, M_VBOX, M_PALNO, and M_PALSEL. It's preferable if this can be fixed since these will need to be remapped for custom palettes, especially those which don't preserve automap defaults.

 

Also, is there an equivalent -dumplumps for Woof? I can see there is a smaller sized slider used in the menu for mouse sensitivity which would also need to be remapped for custom palettes.

[Alaux]

6 hours ago, maxmanium said:

Also, is there an equivalent -dumplumps for Woof? I can see there is a smaller sized slider used in the menu for mouse sensitivity which would also need to be remapped for custom palettes.

On that note, I could extract most of if not all of Woof's built-in lumps and compile them in a WAD for you, if you want. I've recently written a little program to extract most lumps, shouldn't be too difficult to do the rest.

[maxmanium]

34 minutes ago, Alaux said:

On that note, I could extract most of if not all of Woof's built-in lumps and compile them in a WAD for you, if you want. I've recently written a little program to extract most lumps, shouldn't be too difficult to do the rest.

 

Sure, would be useful, thank you

[rfomin]

 

8 hours ago, maxmanium said:

Also, is there an equivalent -dumplumps for Woof?

It's still there, but not working due to little bug. It will be fixed, thanks.

 

8 hours ago, maxmanium said:

M_COLORS, M_VBOX, M_PALNO, and M_PALSEL.

 

M_COLORS and M_PALNO here, others seems to be PrBoom+ additions.

Edit: Do you know any PWADs that use them?

Edited April 10 by rfomin

[maxmanium]

19 hours ago, rfomin said:

M_COLORS and M_PALNO here, others seems to be PrBoom+ additions.

Edit: Do you know any PWADs that use them?

 

The only wads that I'm aware of with custom palettes are Ancient Aliens and KDiKDiZD. The former definitely doesn't have them in the wad though, and no idea about the latter.

 

Regarding PrBoom+ additions: wouldn't it be useful to have these anyway? They're still used in the menu (since both ports were forked from Boom\MBF), just no way to replace them in a PWAD.

[rfomin]

1 hour ago, maxmanium said:

Regarding PrBoom+ additions: wouldn't it be useful to have these anyway? They're still used in the menu (since both ports were forked from Boom\MBF), just no way to replace them in a PWAD.

 

M_VBOX is the confirmation dialog border of the "Restore Defaults" menu button that was removed from DSDA-Doom (v2.26.5). M_PALNO and M_PALSEL are "chips" for the selection cursor in the automap colors menu. In Woof and Boom/MBF, all of these graphics are generated from code. Not sure if we should convert them to lumps. @fabian What do you think?

 

[fabian]

6 hours ago, rfomin said:

@fabian What do you think?

 

If this means we would have to move them out of the code into an auxiliary woof.wad that we would have to carry around together with the executable, then my answer is no. 

[rfomin]

2 hours ago, fabian said:

If this means we would have to move them out of the code into an auxiliary woof.wad that we would have to carry around together with the executable, then my answer is no. 

No, I mean make them in code lumps like hu_font, dogs etc. Now they are drawn algorithmically, "draw_line(x1, y1, x2, y2)".

[fabian]

6 hours ago, rfomin said:

No, I mean make them in code lumps like hu_font, dogs etc. Now they are drawn algorithmically, "draw_line(x1, y1, x2, y2)".

 

Ah, ok, sorry. Yes, it's okay to turn them into lumps then. 

[Trov]

On 4/4/2023 at 3:45 PM, fabian said:

 

With high resolution rendering enabled, the effect is negligible. There was even once a bug report about this for Crispy Doom. 

This depends on what your monitor resolution is. A lot of laptops still being made to this day and Steam Deck still have pretty small ones. (720p/800p/768p, all result in less than 2x scale) The uneven pixel effect is more pronounced on smaller resolution screens.

[liPillON]

Hey guys, I know that there's work being done on the audio subsystem so I'm posting this here instead of opening a github issue 

 

I'm noticing a change in audio quality (since last week, iirc)

Sound effects in general feel "less punchy" and midis played through fluidsynth seems off too.

 

I'm no audio expert so I'm unable to explain it better or give you any evidence, sorry.

 

[rfomin]

10 minutes ago, liPillON said:

I'm noticing a change in audio quality (since last week, iirc)

Sound effects in general feel "less punchy" and midis played through fluidsynth seems off too.

Try the latest build, we set the resampler to "linear" so it should sound more familiar. There is a new config option "snd_resampler", you can try "nearest" or "cubic" (previous default).

[liPillON]

yeah I should have mentioned that I've already tried changing that setting (also: i've manually removed the alsoft.ini file previously included)

[fabian]

Can we somehow set the sample frequency from 48khz back to 44khz?

[rfomin]

1 hour ago, liPillON said:

yeah I should have mentioned that I've already tried changing that setting (also: i've manually removed the alsoft.ini file previously included)

So, is there a difference between the different options? Perhaps "nearest" is closer to the old sound.

 

45 minutes ago, fabian said:

Can we somehow set the sample frequency from 48khz back to 44khz?

It seems to be possible with the ALC_FREQUENCY attribute, though not recommended: https://github.com/kcat/openal-soft/issues/248  

[s4f3s3x]

What's the difference in handling mouse sensitivity between Woof and Crispy?

I have the impression that the latest feels a bit smoother than the former, with equal settings - as much as possible: in my case, it would be capped framerate, VSync disabled and maxed value on Crispy for horizontal sensitivity (that is, 20 - the last value before going above to the "grey" numbers). In Woof, I got to go up to around 35 to get somewhat the same feeling, but still, Crispy feels slightly smoother and precise. About acceleration and all that kind of stuff, I never touched those settings in the .cfg in neither of the two.

Edited April 18 by s4f3s3x : precise

[liPillON]

1 hour ago, rfomin said:

So, is there a difference between the different options? Perhaps "nearest" is closer to the old sound.

 

nope, nothing as far as I can tell

gzdoom, dsda, nugget all sounds the same to my untrained ear - latest woof github builds are the exception

[mikeday]

1 hour ago, liPillON said:

 

nope, nothing as far as I can tell

gzdoom, dsda, nugget all sounds the same to my untrained ear - latest woof github builds are the exception

 

Make sure you are changing "snd_resampler" and not "snd_resampling_mode". What does your console output say when you boot the game? For example, I see:

I_InitSound: Using 'Built-in Audio Analog Stereo' @ 48000 Hz.
 Using 'Cubic' resampler.
 Precaching all sound effects... done.

 

Edited April 18 by mikeday

[liPillON]

I have no "snd_resampling_mode" entry in my cfg

And the stdout on my win10 machine is the same as yours (the device is different, obviously)

 

Here it is, compared to nugget's output (on the left)

Spoiler

 

I've also tried disabling all audio enhancements from windows' "playback device properties" control panel => no results

 

I've noticed however that the device has no support for 48khz

Could it be that Woof's output at 48khz is being downsampled by Windows to 44khz?

 

Spoiler

 

Edited April 18 by liPillON

[rfomin]

3 hours ago, s4f3s3x said:

I have the impression that the latest feels a bit smoother than the former, with equal settings - as much as possible: in my case, it would be capped framerate, VSync disabled ...

Mouse code in Crispy and Woof is almost identical. You may have enabled exclusive full screen mode in Crispy and not in Woof. On my system VSync is forced by Windows with borderless fullscreen mode. Try to set "exclusive fullscreen width" and "exclusive fullscreen height" in Woof config.

 

3 hours ago, liPillON said:

gzdoom, dsda, nugget all sounds the same to my untrained ear - latest woof github builds are the exception

That's strange, Woof should sound like GZDoom with "cubic" resampler. Try running both GZDoom and Woof from a new folder with new configs.

 

1 hour ago, liPillON said:

I've noticed however that the device has no support for 48khz

Could it be that Woof's output at 48khz is being downsampled by Windows to 44khz?

I tried to set 44kHz on my system, there seems to be no difference. Have you tried another device?

[mikeday]

4 hours ago, s4f3s3x said:

What's the difference in handling mouse sensitivity between Woof and Crispy?

I have the impression that the latest feels a bit smoother than the former, with equal settings - as much as possible: in my case, it would be capped framerate, VSync disabled and maxed value on Crispy for horizontal sensitivity (that is, 20 - the last value before going above to the "grey" numbers). In Woof, I got to go up to around 35 to get somewhat the same feeling, but still, Crispy feels slightly smoother and precise. About acceleration and all that kind of stuff, I never touched those settings in the .cfg in neither of the two.

 

It may be the mouse acceleration. In Crispy it is enabled by default (a la Vanilla Doom) and in Woof acceleration is turned off by default.

[s4f3s3x]

@mikeday Yeah, I'm checking the respective .cfg files and that seems the case. What would it be the setting and the value to have in Woof in order to match the Crispy's default?

[mikeday]

Try "cfg_mouse_acceleration" = 200 and "mouse_threshold" = 10.

[s4f3s3x]

15 minutes ago, mikeday said:

Try "cfg_mouse_acceleration" = 200 and "mouse_threshold" = 10.

 

It does seem more fluid now. Should I also match in Woof the exact horizontal sensitivity value I have in Crispy?

[rfomin]

3 hours ago, liPillON said:

I've noticed however that the device has no support for 48khz

Could it be that Woof's output at 48khz is being downsampled by Windows to 44khz?

That was an erroneous reporting on our side, fixed in master. 

[mikeday]

1 hour ago, s4f3s3x said:

 

It does seem more fluid now. Should I also match in Woof the exact horizontal sensitivity value I have in Crispy?

 

Yes, I think the horizontal sensitivity values should match.

[pantheon]

There is a feature for toggling some sort of WASAPI resampler final pass that sounds relevant for liPillON's case but I don't think anything has changed in the past week to bring that into play:

 

 

If you want some more punch, try downloading alsoft-config and set "sample format" to 16 bit int and disable the gain limiter. Make sure you turn the volume down since it gets loud!

Edited April 19 by pantheon

[rfomin]

11 minutes ago, pantheon said:

I also can't seem to change resampler with the latest build. Sample rate is now reported correctly but resampler is always linear (according to woof.com output). Changing other settings like sample rate and format via alsoft-config.exe still work. But neither 'snd_resampler "cubic"' in the cfg nor changing it in alsoft-config are working for me.

The resampler can now be changed in woof.cfg, option "snd_resampler". Not sure if this is a good idea.