This is Woof! 12.0.0 (Sep 15, 2023)

[pantheon]

58 minutes ago, rfomin said:

The resampler can now be changed in woof.cfg, option "snd_resampler". Not sure if this is a good idea.

 

Hah, it helps if I edit the right copy of woof.cfg, my bad. Everything seems to work nicely there. I like the way cubic sounds with 22khz specifically, but yeah most people probably won't want to mess with it. 

 

I'm not super well-versed in Reshade but I've been enjoying CRT-Easymode ported from Retroarch on my 1080p monitor. I copied settings from DOSBox Staging's Easymode-Tweaked shader, here's what I use for the preset INI. It's subtle but close enough to what I remember of CRT monitors, it's like an extra bit of visual texture and cuts down on some of the soupiness, it lowers brightness a bit but at 0 gamma adjust it's about the same as my preferred -0.8 gamma without the shader:

 

 

Screenshot looks a bit odd and stripe-y when downscaled (full res) but it gives a general idea. I'd say it looks much nicer in motion. Not strictly Woof related but I wasn't aware this shader was available for Reshade/Woof until recently.

Edited April 19 by pantheon

[liPillON]

8 hours ago, rfomin said:

That's strange, Woof should sound like GZDoom with "cubic" resampler.

Try running both GZDoom and Woof from a new folder with new configs.

I tried to set 44kHz on my system, there seems to be no difference. Have you tried another device?

 

new tests made with from-scratch-configs for gz, dsda, woof 10.5.1 and this woof build

the latter sounds different from all the others, even when the resampler is changed to cubic

 

here, have the recordings (made with Audacity, through the WASAPI loopback device)

in the archive there are also the respective cfgs and logs

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ykji964i4ag2lb9/woof-audio-testing.7z/file

 

the soundfont used is RLNDGM 

usually i play with mus_gain set to 50, but for the purpouse of this tests i've kept the default (100)

 

 

when I'll have the time I'll try going back to previous github builds to find when this originated

 

 

PS: if this deserves its own github issue please let me know and I'll open one there

 

[liPillON]

18 minutes ago, liPillON said:

when I'll have the time I'll try going back to previous github builds to find when this originated

 

last build without the issue: https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/woof/actions/runs/4587170696

first build with the issue: https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/woof/actions/runs/4608160015

 

so yeah this originated with the switch to openAL for sound mixing

I would have sworn that the first few openal-powered builds sounded fine, sorry for being misleading

 

 

[rfomin]

42 minutes ago, liPillON said:

new tests made with from-scratch-configs for gz, dsda, woof 10.5.1 and this woof build

the latter sounds different from all the others, even when the resampler is changed to cubic

It really does seem different. I recoded a small clip from my system with latest build, RLNDGM sound font and linear resampler. What do you think about it?

woof-latest.zip

[liPillON]

48 minutes ago, rfomin said:

What do you think about it?

woof-latest.zip

 

it definetly sounds closer to what I'm used to hear in dsda

 

 

anyway, I've performend more testing/recordings..

I've compared 3 ports (dsda-0.25.6, woof-10.5.1, woof-git) across 4 devices (speakers, headphones connected via audio jack, usb headset, bluetooth headset)

 

when using the speakers, all 3 ports sound the same (badly, imho)

when using woof-git, all 4 devices sound the same (badly, imho)

 

         | dsda   | woof   | woof   |
         | 0.25.6 | 10.5.1 | git    |
---------|--------|--------|--------|
speakers | funny  | funny  | funny  |
jack     | ok     | ok     | funny  |
usb      | ok     | ok     | funny  |
bt       | ok     | ok     | funny  |
-------------------------------------

 

 

here are the recordings:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/0xig458u4qsi7ee/testing.7z/file

 

 

[rfomin]

DSDA-Doom and the old Woof have a similar sound system and use SDL for output. It's more interesting to compare GZDoom and the latest Woof, since both use OpenAL Soft. In any case, I can't reproduce your problem yet. On my system, the latest Woof sounds very similar to the old SDL version. OpenAL Soft tries to automatically enable HRTF, I recommend creating "alsoft.ini" next to woof.exe and tweaking "stereo-mode" and "stereo-encoding" and maybe other options from here: https://github.com/kcat/openal-soft/blob/master/alsoftrc.sample

 

Maybe we should move this to GitHub.

[liPillON]

1 hour ago, rfomin said:

OpenAL Soft tries to automatically enable HRTF

that's it!

 

I followed your advice, created the alsoft.ini file and only changed "stereo-encoding" to "basic"

This was enough to get the "warmer" audio I was used to up until woof 10.5.1

 

Out of curiosity, I've checked the HRTF setting in GZDoom and was set to "auto" (snd_hrtf=-1)

When changing it to "on" (snd_hrtf=1) the audio becomes "colder/metallic" here as well.

 

 

[rfomin]

9 minutes ago, liPillON said:

Out of curiosity, I've checked the HRTF setting in GZDoom and was set to "auto" (snd_hrtf=-1)

When changing it to "on" (snd_hrtf=1) the audio becomes "colder/metallic" here as well.

Thank you! I'll try copying the GZDoom settings.

[ceski]

6 hours ago, liPillON said:

new tests made with from-scratch-configs for gz, dsda, woof 10.5.1 and this woof build

the latter sounds different from all the others, even when the resampler is changed to cubic

 

Would you mind sharing your OpenAL Soft log file for this build? You can enable logging using the following environment variables: ALSOFT_LOGFILE set to a file and ALSOFT_LOGLEVEL set to 3.

 

[liPillON]

I've captured 3 logs:

- LinearResampler and default StereoEncoding

- CubicResampler and default StereoEncoding

- CubicResampler and BASIC StereoEncoding

 

Here they are: woof-alsoft-logs.zip

[Classic SSG Enjoyer]

Are demos recorded in complevel boom in Woof! demo compatible with DOSBOOM i.e Boom 2.02 ?

[fabian]

37 minutes ago, Classic SSG Enjoyer said:

Are demos recorded in complevel boom in Woof! demo compatible with DOSBOOM i.e Boom 2.02 ?

 

In general yes. Though, DOS Boom 2.02 isn't actually the compatibility target for complevel 9, it's PrBoom+'s complevel 9 instead. The differences should be marginal, if any. I know it sounds confusing, but you may trust us in this regard. ;)

[Classic SSG Enjoyer]

21 minutes ago, fabian said:

 

In general yes. Though, DOS Boom 2.02 isn't actually the compatibility target for complevel 9, it's PrBoom+'s complevel 9 instead. The differences should be marginal, if any. I know it sounds confusing, but you may trust us in this regard. ;)

I am sorry but, I really don't know, that demos recorded in ReBoom (Chocolate Doom for Boom), desync in Woof! and same goes to way around.

 

Its really strange.

 

But, all demos recorded on Woof! on complevels 2,3,4 playback perfectly fine in Chocolate Doom.

 

So, we can safely say that Woof is demo compatible with Chocolate Doom, and as Chocolate Doom is DOSDoom on modern OS, it is proved that Woof! is demo compatible with Doom2.exe.

 

But, its extremely weird for demos recorded on ReBoom to desync on Woof.

Edited April 19 by Classic SSG Enjoyer

[rfomin]

9 minutes ago, Classic SSG Enjoyer said:

I am sorry but, I really don't know, that demos recorded in ReBoom (Chocolate Doom for Boom), desync in Woof! and same goes to way around.

When I looked at ReBoom, it was not a DOS Boom 2.02 demo compatible (for example, there was a partial implementation of UMAPINFO). It may have been changed later, but we still have to compare with DOS Boom 2.02.

 

Instead, we opted for demo compatibility with PrBoom+ complevel 9 (complevel boom) for practical reasons. Nobody is actually using vanilla DOS Boom 2.02 these days. There are many Boom PWADs that don't work in DOS Boom exe.

[Classic SSG Enjoyer]

4 minutes ago, rfomin said:

but we still have to compare with DOS Boom 2.02.

Yeah, but still, its a shame, that ReBoom even being Chocolate Doom for Boom, is not compatible with original exe itself.

 

That truly sucks :(

[Classic SSG Enjoyer]

6 minutes ago, rfomin said:

Instead, we opted for demo compatibility with PrBoom+ complevel 9 (complevel boom) for practical reasons. Nobody is actually using vanilla DOS Boom 2.02 these days. There are many Boom PWADs that don't work in DOS Boom exe.

 

Yeah, big Boom compatible maps like Okuplok, don't work with DOSBOOM 2.02.exe.

[ceski]

3 hours ago, liPillON said:

I've captured 3 logs:

 

Would you mind sharing the OpenAL Soft log for this build? Start with a clean folder, no alsoft.ini.

woof-test.zip

[liPillON]

42 minutes ago, ceski said:

 

Would you mind sharing the OpenAL Soft log for this build? Start with a clean folder, no alsoft.ini.

woof-test.zip

 

sure, here it is: woof-test-logs.zip

 

 

[ceski]

1 minute ago, liPillON said:

sure, here it is: woof-test-logs.zip

 

And finally, please try the latest artifact by @rfomin: https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/woof/actions

[liPillON]

tested it, sounds good!

 

[Classic SSG Enjoyer]

A question:

 

On earlier pages of this thread, I have seen @fabian sir saying that "PrBoom plus + complevel 9" isn't "Boom compatible"

 

So, sir, may I know why is this so ?

[fabian]

As the name implies, it is just a compatibility level, i.e. an operational mode of an advanced engine to behave as similar as possible to a different engine. 

 

Anyway, the term, when used with PWADs, means that it targets this exact operational mode of the engine. It does not mean that the PWAD would even run on the original targeted engine. And in fact most modern PWADs which target complevels 9 or 11 would immediately crash the corresponding DOS engines. 

[NightFright]

I see latest builds got rid of the messy DLL file structure. Now everything seems to be inside of woof.dll. While it doesn't have any impact on the way the port itself performs or behaves, the file folder itself looks a lot cleaner this way. Whoever made it happen: Thanks!

[fabian]

3 hours ago, NightFright said:

I see latest builds got rid of the messy DLL file structure. Now everything seems to be inside of woof.dll. While it doesn't have any impact on the way the port itself performs or behaves, the file folder itself looks a lot cleaner this way. Whoever made it happen: Thanks!

 

Kudos to @rfomin as usual! 

[Average]

@pantheon Would you mind sharing a step by step on adding your Reshade setup to Woof?  I followed the instructions from the Reshade site but it doesn't work for me.  The HOME key just opens up the Woof settings menu. Sorry to be such a noob!

 

[pantheon]

17 hours ago, Average said:

@pantheon Would you mind sharing a step by step on adding your Reshade setup to Woof?  I followed the instructions from the Reshade site but it doesn't work for me.  The HOME key just opens up the Woof settings menu. Sorry to be such a noob!

 

Sure, assuming you're on Windows, you download Reshade, run it to install on your woof.exe (pick DirectX 9, skip "select preset" or I think you can use mine here), then for effect package pick "RSRetroArch by Matsilagi". Basically it will put the Retroarch shaders and some other files into your Woof directory and when you run it you'll see a Reshade menu and tutorial pop up. That's where you can enable CRT-Easymode and tweak it. 

 

The HOME key is the Reshade default for opening the menu but it's also Woof's default for opening the menu. Sounds like that's interfering. I'd just temporarily change it in Woof, get to Reshade, and set Reshade to something else (on the settings tab)... I put it on my numpad.

 

Really I just changed the resolution settings for my monitor and set gamma output to 2. It's easy enough to mess around with the settings and you can always set everything back to defaults. It's fun to mess around with the other shaders too since they're all generally in the ballpark of the Doom era. If you have a 1440p or 4k monitor you're in luck since you can get into more sophisticated shaders like Royale which I have little familiarity with.

[Average]

@pantheon Thanks very much.  It was the Direct X thingy that tripped me up.  For whatever reason I presumed Woof was OpenGL.  I'm now off to play around with the settings. :)

[s4f3s3x]

How can I set a custom fps value?

[rfomin]

3 hours ago, s4f3s3x said:

How can I set a custom fps value?

You can't in the latest released version. It's possible in the current dev version (it's in the general menu along with exclusive fullscreen mode), get artifacts from github: https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/woof/actions/runs/4809660479

 

Hopefully we will release a new version soon.

[s4f3s3x]

That is good to hear!

I'll wait for the new version then - when it'll be available for MacOs