Coronavirus pandemic chat [no medical advice plz]

[cannonball]

3 minutes ago, zen4040 said:

what do you mean? aren't people here saying that there's no cure for it at all? I'm confused

This is a novel virus, so no vaccination. The majority will recover, it is just the percentage who develop more severe conditions from this that is the issue as the health services will only have a certain number of intensive care beds and specialist equipment to deal with severe respiratory illnesses that develop because of this virus. The mortality rate of this virus is hugely dependent on whether or not the health service gets crippled by the sheer number of people requiring ventilators and intensive care where doctors have to chose who to save. It is crucial that people take care to try and slow the spread of this virus and prevent health services from collapsing due to high demand.

[Nine Inch Heels]

10 minutes ago, Gez said:

Masks should, in priority, be worn by the sick rather than by the healthy, because they are more effective at keeping the virus in than at keeping the virus out.

Adding to that: If you plan on using masks, educate yourself on how to use them properly. Wearing a face-mask does nothing if you make fundamental mistakes such as touching the part that covers your face, and then touching your face (or anything else, really) right after, which is a very common mistake people make, by the way.

[Gez]

15 minutes ago, zen4040 said:

what do you mean? aren't people here saying that there's no cure for it at all? I'm confused

If I remember the Chinese statistics right, you have this breakdown among the infected population:

• 20% who need hospital care
• 6% who need intensive care (respiratory assistance with ventilators)
• 2% who died despite intensive care
• Hospital stays lasted around 3 weeks on average

It's bad, but there are worse. A virus like ebola has a lethality rate much higher. There's a sort of natural balance in that a very lethal disease tends to kill its host before they can transmit it to a lot of other people, so very contagious diseases tend not to be very lethal, and vice-versa.  Of course there are other factors, such as a long incubation period (in covid-19's case, it seems it can last at least 24 days) that can help a lethal disease be very contagious, but a slow-acting disease also gives the organism more time to come up with antibodies.

 

The main risk is if, like in Italy, the health services get overburdened because the contagion spreads faster than they can deal with the patients. That's where these call to "flatten the curve" come from: the aim isn't to reduce the total number of people who caught the disease at the end of the crisis, it's to take longer to reach that number, so that hospitals don't get overcrowded. It's estimated that between 60% to 80% of the population needs to catch the disease, and get over it, before herd immunity kicks in: it's hoped that once 80% of the population has caught covid-19 and gotten over it, the virus will just stop spreading. If we can shelter the people who are the most at risk (the elderly and those who other respiratory issues) until we get there, everything will be fine.

 

Just for reference: 60% of the US population of 330 million is 198 millions. 20% of that needing hospitalization is 39.6 millions. Best case, assuming everyone who needs treatment gets it, and everyone who needs intensive care gets it, you're looking at nearly 4 million dead in the US. That's the price to pay for herd immunity.

[Kronecker–Capelli]

5 hours ago, seed said:

 

Lol.

Around 80% of infected people cured themselves, without any additional needles in veins. Immunity system is still a thing in our age of antibiotics for every possible sneeze.
Other 20% or healed after "life giving" dose of chemicals with only 2% of the total died.
 

5 hours ago, cannonball said:

Yes it is good for clearing the airways when you suffer from a cold where you produce a lot of mucous

Did you know that your body increase your body temperature if you get infected by something, not just because it want to, but to literally boil intruders in you own blood? Just like spanish inquisition:)
By adding additional heat to body (through hot tea) you decrease loading on it. Since to heat liter of water for one Celsius you should spend around 1000 calories, which equal to around 300 grams of pure sugar. Remember the fact that human body for 60-80% consists from water, multiply it on body weight and 300 grams of sugar, and you get number of sugar you should eat to replenish body energy reserves. And that only approximate value, since digestion and stored energy consumption is not an energy "free" process. Especially if body heated up like one reactor number 4 at one spring night of 86.

 

5 hours ago, cannonball said:

Pneumonia or other severe respiratory infections/reactions, especially if you are older or already suffer from other health problems. 

You wont believe, but same thing happens with corona. And not only with corona, but with all deseases. The older you are the more chances you have to "reach final destination", "step into the wasteland at the end of the path", "go to the country of an eternal hunt", "personally shake hand of an Einstein", "change plane of the existence", "wear wooden mackintosh" and other idioms.

And I just remember other global pandemics from 2000, which ends with "zero" results. Does it because nowadays measures were applied, like closing all borders and shutting down everything which have off/on button? I dont know. But what I know is that WHO was criticized that it create mass panics, because of which it gain MUCH of moneys from vaccines and related stuff, indirectly. And current situation looks exactly the same.

Again, I dont say corona is harmless, but its danger HUGELY overrated.

[j4rio]

20% required hospital care, that is a BAD number. That's 1 in 5 people that eventually had to be hauled into hospital. Given that average hospital stay time averaged at 3 weeks and the ridiculously efficient virulence, I'd say things are being hugely UNDERrated.

 

And as for people comparing this to flu, those people probably think runny nose and some cough is flu. If it's flu, you'd know it, and you want to die. You are completely knocked out for 7 to 10 days on average. Even if it was just a significantly worse flu, that'd still not be something to take lightly.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

With 300g sugar daily your body will wonder what the fuck is wrong with my brain.

[FractalBeast]

Remember, the main damage Corona does isn't people that suffer from Corona. It's people that suffer from X and Corona, or people that suffer from Y and can't get treatment for Y because the hospital is full of people suffering from Corona.

[elend]

It is honestly shocking how little people STILL know about Corona. As long as it was devastating chinese citizens nobody gave a single flying fuck it seems. But then, even with the first cases popping up elsewhere, people still tried to ignore it. Okay, I get it, just about a 100 cases in your country of whatever million people. Nothing to worry about, right? Well, should have looked a bit more carefully to China, then many would have realized that Covid-19 is actually quite a bit dangerous out of two reasons:

 

1) You spread it even without showing symptoms. I don't know why this is JUST being talked about now, even though I heard about this already 2 months ago when it was spreading in China.

2) The economic fallout will be huge. Again, 2 months ago in China, everything closed. EVERYTHING. Shops, schools, factories, fucking EVERYTHING. And just NOW people wake up and think: "Wait a second, if EVERYTHING closes... maybe the economy will suffer?" DUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. No shit, Sherlock?!

 

Btw, the difference about Ebola and / or SARS and Covid-19 is a very sneaky one. Yes, Ebola and SARS have a higher mortality rate, which makes them more deadly, but they are not as contagious actually, which is good. People got way sicker way faster and thus were able to be quarantined easier. Covid-19 is way more contagious and shows little to mild symptoms in most cases, which makes it super easy to be spread around by people. Because, "just a flu, brah!".

[taufan99]

Welp, my country just officially prolonged the danger time due to the virus until May 29 (!).

I'm trying really hard to stay optimistic and do my best to still achieve the best amidst the outbreak panic, but still... *sigh*

[fufu]

 

Everyone stay home if possible and don't be stupid, please.

There are people in my country who consider quarantine as a sort of vacation and they make me want to shot a BFG through my brain.

[ZALGO]

Bear in mind a vaccine for the Corona has already been tested today. It's only in time that the virus will die out.

 

Even so, Corona will die anyway since it barely has lethality to speak of. If a person were to survive the effects of the virus they become immune, which can then be used to create vaccines for the virus in the future. Hell, the Spanish Flu of 1920 died out because it legit starved to death from infecting too many people.

[Gez]

There are two steps to vaccine testing:

1. making sure the vaccine is safe
2. making sure the vaccine actually works

The covid-19 vaccine being tested currently is in the first step. If it gets validated, then the second step happens.

 

There's no guarantee it'll validate both steps. For reference, the H1N1 vaccine wasn't ready until after the pandemics died out naturally, and there's still no vaccine for AIDS despite decades of research The fact some people have reported catching the disease a second time would also tend to imply a vaccine may not work.

[printz]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

For reference, the H1N1 vaccine wasn't ready until after the pandemics died out naturally

I wonder why the swine flu pandemic didn't generate the same alarm as this COVID-19. Maybe it was less deadly (less load on the healthcare system)?

[j4rio]

It does. Flu is a ticking bomb. The Spanish flu outbreak was basically still just a flu, somewhere between 50 to 100 million dead within 15 months. Mortality was similar to corona infection, but with signifacantly more "young and healthy" dead compared to "old and less healthy", presumably due to overreaction of healthy immune system.

[Kronecker–Capelli]

9 hours ago, elend said:

Again, 2 months ago in China, everything closed. EVERYTHING. Shops, schools, factories, fucking EVERYTHING. And just NOW people wake up and think: "Wait a second, if EVERYTHING closes... maybe the economy will suffer?" DUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. No shit, Sherlock?!

And here answer why everything in China was closed
 

On 3/4/2020 at 5:58 AM, elend said:

About that virus: I am currently living in China and experienced it more or less first hand. Well, I am not living in Wuhan, but close. When first news of infections started to appear my wife (a doctor) was immediately reminded of the SARS epidemic and took precautions that - at the time - seemed a bit silly. She bought a ton of face masks, desinfectant and gloves, as well as groceries to last at least a week. And didn't you know it, a couple of days later all face masks were sold out and we were basically quarantined in our house. The chinese new year's holiday (aka spring festival) was prolonged for almost two weeks, people worked from home if possible and the whole country of 1.4 billion people basically stood completely still. If you entered our building complex you got your temperature checked and when you left, too. When you approach the supermarket you get your temperature checked as well. We got vouchers for one member of the household to leave exactly three times a week to buy groceries. While all this seems very harsh for a virus that is similar to the flu, you have to consider the following things:

 

- There are many, many, many people in China. Yes, you have heard this before, and of course you know this. But in reality you have no idea how it really is, if you have never visited China during holidays. I can't stress this enough. I have been to China many times before as a tourist and it is very different than actually living and working here. I made the mistake once and visited Hangzhou during spring festival and it was utterly mind boggling.

 

- The virus emerged shortly before the spring festival holidays. Holidays, where about 800.000.000 people are traveling. In a time frame of 1 week. All at the same time. Those holidays are incredibly important to the Chinese, comparable only to Christmas in the west, if western families would have way stronger family ties and the only week off during the whole year.

 

Once you have experienced a chinese city during rush hour or the holidays, you understand the draconian measures the government had to take. There is no escape from people, it is very easy to catch something here, which makes an epidemic (of then yet unknown proportions) really, really scary and dangerous. Especially during a time where 800 million people are travelling and spreading that shit all over the country (and outside). Also, contrary to popular belief, the Chinese don't always do what the authorities tell them, to. Just asking them kindly "to stay at home" would not have worked. You need a bit more force than that. So, imho, the Chinese government did everything right, albeit a bit too late. We see the same things happening now in most other countries. No country seems to be prepared for something like this and no matter how many fingers they like to point at China, very rarely do they do things "better". And like I said, keep China's circumstances in mind. China is very different from western countries, many people always forget that. You can't judge chinese actions and circumstances from a western viewpoint, that just doesn't work.

 

Now for the virus in YOUR country. If you are not in South Korea or Italy I wouldn't worry too much. It's easy to avoid people in the west, the risk to get infected seems very, very low and the health care is usually equipped enough so that you don't die. What I do worry about are my parents though. I mean, they are old, they could easily die from a pneumonia and of course I would not want that to happen. So, my recommendation is the usual: Just keep basic precautions (stay away from sneezing people, avoid huge gatherings of people, wash hands carefully and often). This stuff doesn't cost you anything, is very easy to do and should be common sense anyway.

 

E-Currency: Of course this is every government's dream because it's absolutely traceable (well definitely more traceable than cash). It will come, it will happen. And it will - like with many things pushed into existence before finishing gestation - cause massive problems at first, maybe draw some criticism and protests, but everything will eventually calm down and people just accept it as their new reality. Like everything before.

 

Overpopulation: There is a neat "Kurzgesagt" video on YouTube explaining overpopulation and how it works and (most probably) won't be an issue in the future. Well worth a look.

 

[Slipgate Tourist]

In case some of you are interested in helping out:

 

Quote

 

“Help with the fight against SARS-CoV-2 from home: donate your computer’s background CPU & GPU time to researchers and clinicians using Rosetta@Home & Folding@Home”

 

Hello all.

I want to inform you of the work distributed computing is doing researching SARS-CoV-2. Given the precipitous worldwide explosion of cases, state and national emergency proclamations, and general clinical belief that things will get much worse before they become better, I hope you will consider putting your computing resources toward this task.

 

Here are some initial comments on how Rosetta@home and Folding@home are helping to understand and combat SARS-CoV-2.

Distributed computing is a simple concept - an institution takes a large chunk of data and breaks it up into small pieces. The data is sent to participating computers. Your computer does the number crunching and the finished product is sent back to be added to the whole body of research. The programs can run invisibly in the background, whenever you're not using the computer, or full time. The installation takes up a small amount of space, and you can easily control how much of your computer processing power you want dedicated to either program.

Most of us may not be scientists, virologists, epidemiologists or researchers but that doesn’t mean we are helpless or unable to contribute. Much can be done if we work together as a team, a country, and an international community.

 

And don't worry you can still play Doom while running BOINC :)

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Slipgate Tourist

[Rampy470]

6 hours ago, Gez said:

The fact some people have reported catching the disease a second time would also tend to imply a vaccine may not work.

That's now being attributed to people being released before they should rather than re catching it, afaik.

[Coraline]

It’s pretty sad. I’m a computer engineer at one of the biggest trauma hospitals in the Central Valley all the way to the Bay Area, and I had to help set up the C19 tents and machines/printers/etc. I get paged out to it daily and nightly - it’s very sad to see people so scared and when you are in there, you look like the doctors and nurses and it’s painful to have to tell people that I can’t help because they are panicked. As I go everywhere in the entire district (3 hospitals, business offices, etc) and practically nothing is off limits to the work I have to do, we are like #2 at risk or something. 

 

I’m not overly worried, though. The only thing that I’m depressed about is not seeing my daughter as I live in another smaller county in the Central Valley, I’ve been staying away from practically everyone outside of work just to be precautionary and she absolutely comes first. The way I see it, those machines aren’t going to fix themselves and as long as I keep washing hands, wearing a mask and gloves as I go through the hospital and practice normal hygienic procedures everything will be fine.
 

Shame that this whole thing couldn’t have been handled much earlier and that the government had to wait so long before declaring and rushing everything through. 

[Mr.S Retro]

If or when we get a vaccine we will still have anti-vaxxers

[Gez]

15 minutes ago, Oppo1021 said:

If or when we get a vaccine we will still have anti-vaxxers

Yes.

 

We have flat-earthers, so it's not like some people can be reasoned with. Anti-vaxxers probably think the virus was created and released deliberately for some nefarious end, and the vaccine will just be a trap. I mean, it's what they've said about Zika and H1N1 and so on.

[seed]

11 minutes ago, Gez said:

We have flat-earthers, so it's not like some people can be reasoned with.

 

Yeeeeeaaapp...

 

"iT's aLl a gOvErNmEnT CoNsPiRaCy tO CoNtRoL tHe fOoLiSh MaSsEs". These people are a joke. And those who believe there's flying disks in space and that the Moon is just a projection are even worse. I don't understand how people can be so dense, and believe their own bullshit too.

[Lizardcommando]

It sucks, especially this whole "shelter-in-place" order that was placed throughout the Bay Area. I also have to go to work since apparently security guards are considered "essential personnel". Oh well, at least it will be much, much quieter over there and I still have employment unlike my roommate who is temporarily out of work during this shelter-in-place order.

[Redneckerz]

1 hour ago, Lizardcommando said:

It sucks, especially this whole "shelter-in-place" order that was placed throughout the Bay Area. I also have to go to work since apparently security guards are considered "essential personnel". Oh well, at least it will be much, much quieter over there and I still have employment unlike my roommate who is temporarily out of work during this shelter-in-place order.

Have him apply at Amazon, they are hiring several thousand people because everyone is ordering online. Just saying that in general, not sure if feasible for your roommate, but if he does not have any contractual obligations, it might be worth looking into.

[Simon Riley]

It's a fucking diversion.

 

I'm not worried about the virus.  I'm unlikely to get it.

 

What I am worried about is the shit the government will pull when we're all conveniently preoccupied.

 

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/earn-it-bill-governments-not-so-secret-plan-scan-every-message-online

[seed]

28 minutes ago, Mike Anderson said:

 

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/earn-it-bill-governments-not-so-secret-plan-scan-every-message-online

 

.... how do people come up with these proposals? So, basically "let's obliterate privacy in the name of "the greater good" " kind of a deal if I understand it correctly? Sheesh, one way to lie to everyone's face I guess.

 

This reminds me of something about Article 13 - the silence. Prior to this link I have seen or heard virtually nothing about this measure.

[BBQgiraffe]

2 minutes ago, seed said:

 

.... how do people come up with these proposals? So, basically "let's obliterate privacy in the name of "the greater good" " kind of a deal if I understand it correctly? Sheesh, one way to lie to everyone's face I guess.

 

This reminds me of something about Article 13 - the silence. Prior to this link I have seen or heard virtually nothing about this measure.

I love how America is slowly becoming the American we see in the Watch Dogs series

[Simon Riley]

1 hour ago, seed said:

Prior to this link I have seen or heard virtually nothing about this measure.

 

Exactly.  Me neither.  Hence why I have been autistically spamming it everywhere I can, in places that are somewhat relevant.

 

If we're supposed to stay at home and browse the goddamn internet, might as well put it to good use.

[mrthejoshmon]

My mother thinks she is infected, she shows signs of ALL of the symptoms and has been ordered to self isolate by doctors (thinks is a misleading word, she is quite possibly actually infected, she ain't doing too well).

 

Due to the fact I share the house with her, I will need to isolate too, wouldn't want to spread it to anyone (I work closely with customers, I will easily spread it) just as a precaution, I also work with some older fellas and I wouldn't want to put them in harms way.

[Hellbent]

16 hours ago, ZALGO said:

Bear in mind a vaccine for the Corona has already been tested today. It's only in time that the virus will die out.

 

Even so, Corona will die anyway since it barely has lethality to speak of. If a person were to survive the effects of the virus they become immune, which can then be used to create vaccines for the virus in the future. Hell, the Spanish Flu of 1920 died out because it legit starved to death from infecting too many people.

Why doesn't the regular old flu die out if we were able to get rid of the Spanish flu?

[insertwackynamehere]

The mayor of NYC wants to work with the NY governor to have a shelter-in-place rule as well, like SF apparently has.

 

This is getting weirder by the day.

 

Amazon cancelled my Whole Foods order. Luckily I've got enough stuff for now, but even trying to order any supplies is basically not possible it seems. I don't want to go outside because the idea I keep seeing online is that I'm literally murdering people if I do since I have a sore throat and have to assume the worst.

 

The looming implication of this being months, I'm not sure how I'll handle no social contact for that long even when I generally prefer solitude to recharge.

 

It's not really debatable at this point whether the virus is that bad. The situation is bad here and it's going to get worse everywhere it seems like. The mayor of NYC is saying that we have to prepare for economic disaster on par with the Great Depression.

 

I kind of feel like I'm already going a bit nuts and normally I like relaxing in my apartment alone. If this is 2, 3, 4 months of enforced social isolation and economic free-fall, I don't really know. They are suspending all evictions which is good and I can pay rent for a bit, but some people are already screwed. What's going to happen when all of NYC is suddenly "better" and now it's time to collect 3 or 4 months of back-rent from most of the population?

 

The mayor called out the federal government multiple times today which was nice to hear. When has the federal government fixed a single disaster? I'm 30 and it seems like every disaster I can recall has been absolutely bungled by the federal government. And yet they take so much of our money and are refusing to help NY, probably as an extension of Trump's persistent need to punish NY. And what would they even do? Every hurricane seems to be bungled by them. ICE, the TSA two police state agencies created to solve "issues" but really just overreach further into a police state. The NSA and domestic spying. Multiple useless wars. Tons of laws and rulings and other agencies all working against the interest of the people. Even now trying to ban privacy while the country is mid-collapse. Pretty much zero social safety net to handle the reality of needing your whole population to wait around while they lose their jobs and accrue debt.

 

I hope this at least makes people wake up to how absolutely disgraceful the United States federal government is both towards its own citizens and towards the rest of the world. This current situation, if it continues, could end with the mega-rich and the state handing down punishment for everyone for not being "prepared enough", even those lucky enough to make enough money to mistakenly align themselves with the rich (people who own a building with tenants or make good white collar money and have a healthy 401k etc.) aka those who always mistakenly assume any sort of progress is a threat to them.