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Personal Best Demo Thread ← POST YOUR NON-WRs HERE

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On 3/14/2020 at 8:46 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

Under different circumstances I would leave this uncommented, but since your post here makes us look as if we didn't want to help people get started with speedrunning classic Doom, I absolutely have to make a few things clear here.

 

To begin with, nobody gets kicked (or banned) for asking too many questions. What got you sorted out, among other things, was that you kept asking the same questions repeatedly, even though all your questions have been answered several times over. If you had asked for something specific instead of saying...
image.png.7807c7d029057c2d4407ff4869130482.png

...when being shown a guide on how to get set up, then we might have been on to something, but replies like that are nothing anybody can actually work with. Saying "I don't get it" doesn't help, especially not when it happens several times over.

 

In addition to that, you claimed that the several links and guides that were already provided (thanks to the efforts people made so that you could have a decent start) recommended "Chocolate Doom" as a port to use for speedrunning, which is plain and simple not true (people know it's false because they were the ones writing the guides, so there's that). When being told that you were on the wrong track entirely, and you'd be better off using a different port to record your demos (Not only because we have guides available for them, but also because they're commonly agreed upon as being "better at the job"), your reaction was the following:
image.png.9402790eed5000225fbb650abe078d0c.png

 

The bottom line is that one of the moderators had enough of these animosities of yours, and chose to drop the hammer, which was a decision I personally agreed with at the time (In fact I might have hammered you myself if you kept going like you did).

 

So no, you didn't get kicked because you had questions, and trying to make it look as if that were the reason is kinda disingenuous in my book.

i may over simplyfy it by saying i got kicked for asking to many questions my fault, im just who i am and i cant change that,i have my problems with sertan things, sorry for that

 

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On 3/15/2020 at 5:55 AM, Licky Pocket said:

Question: If I improve on any of these, should I just post them here again? Should I edit out old ones?

 

It's generally not a good idea to edit posts with demos because edits may not be noticed. It's fine to edit if it's very soon after the original demo (e.g., same day or next day), but otherwise stick to new posts for new demos.

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In other words, this is where I post ALL of my demos now. 

:P

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10 hours ago, Alaux said:

oh god almost there to finally stop with this map

 

e1m1 never stops :^)

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TNT Evilution MAP12 nomo in 39.26

Grinding for the 38, but this is a tie (in full seconds) for now.

 

ev12o3926.zip

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Posted (edited)

e1m1.zip Pacifist in 0:10:37

 

I hope I'm doing this right. please let me know if I did anything wrong :)

Edited by Brorr : Thanks kraflab :)

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2 hours ago, Brorr said:

e1m1.zip

 

I hope I'm doing this right. please let me know if I did anything wrong :)

1) Each post should say what you did and how fast. You could follow the example of practically every single post on the forum. E.g., "E1M1 Pacifist in 0:10"

2) Non-record demos go into a different thread: 

 

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On 3/17/2020 at 7:57 AM, olio said:

In other words, this is where I post ALL of my demos now.

There are thousands of good pwads for which there are no demos or very few demos. Why not record something for them? The same effort that one might put into getting a boring set of iwad demos that are a second or two off long-standing records could provide a whole load of entertaining runs on wads that are unfamiliar to most people, and that would be well worth watching.

 

There, finally got that off my chest. It only took the end of the world to make it happen. :p

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Posted (edited)

I'm still fairly new to Doom in general and haven't delved too far into the wad pool. I keep an eye out for lesser run wads, but generally a level having one time posted means I have to choose between second or losing my sanity.

Edit: I also feel that that stance is easier to take for veterans. You've already played the shit out of the pwads and other popular wads. That mentality is basically asking new players to skip over the popular stuff and go straight into obscure gems. How can you fully appreciate the gems without knowing where they came from? I understand where you are coming from, but I think you may have forgotten what it's like to be new to this scene.

Edited by olio

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On 3/19/2020 at 8:48 PM, olio said:

I understand where you are coming from, but I think you may have forgotten what it's like to be new to this scene.

Not really. I never saw the point of recording any demo that didn't either do something new or else improved over what had gone before. I never even bothered recording any such demos, let alone releasing them.

 

You don't need an extensive knowledge of pwads. Just choose something you like (or a wad from the archive at random), see at DSDA what (if anything) has been done so far, and record something that strikes you as interesting.

 

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On 3/21/2020 at 2:47 PM, Grazza said:

Not really. I never saw the point of recording any demo that didn't either do something new or else improved over what had gone before. I never even bothered recording any such demos, let alone releasing them.

 

You don't need an extensive knowledge of pwads. Just choose something you like (or a wad from the archive at random), see at DSDA what (if anything) has been done so far, and record something that strikes you as interesting.

 

I haven't submitted any demos for a while because I realised this is how most of the community feels. After I finish Doom Eternal, I was gonna go look for a wad with no/few runs so I could record some more stuff.

 

Still, it feels a bit weird and gatekeeper-ish. This is a video game and a hobby, so it's strange that their is a right and wrong way to spend your spare time.

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Posted (edited)

If it's a hobby why do you need approval or validation from someone else? What exactly are you looking for when you post a demo that you aren't getting? It's an honest question because I don't really understand that attitude.

 

I have basically the opposite perspective. What I love about the Doom community is how cooperative it feels. It's all about improving existing runs or filling out the tables on wads that don't see a lot of action. In this way a new player can do something really new, and players of all skill levels can contribute in a meaningful way, and we generally celebrate this kind of activity.

 

Perhaps it's the contrast between that and posting the hundredth e1m1 run that makes the veterans scratch their heads.

 

To put another way, this community tends to be about "look where we can move the game / wad" and not as much "look at me".

Edited by kraflab

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Posted (edited)

Everyone, incuding every veteran was new to the scene at some point and they didn't become a veteran over the span of days. Understand that basically all originals have already been stomped to the ground over decades of effort. The renaissance of originals is very much something of the very recent era. Back then in 2010s, originals were almost completely ignored, with rare exceptions here and there. The focus was primarily on community releases. Reasons for that were, among some politics regarding sourceports, usually boiling down to iwad records already being a result of thousands of hours of effort coupled with luck factor usually surpassing reasonability even for veterans. "Personal bests" of originals or other records were considered more of an encouragements to push yourself further, as on their own didn't bring anything revolutionary to the plate. This is why community releases are the best bet for you to start with, as they provide a reasonable level of competition for every level of experience in the doom field and are frequently lacking in arguably well deserved recognition, which can be provided to them this way.

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8 hours ago, olio said:

I haven't submitted any demos for a while because I realised this is how most of the community feels. After I finish Doom Eternal, I was gonna go look for a wad with no/few runs so I could record some more stuff.

 

Still, it feels a bit weird and gatekeeper-ish. This is a video game and a hobby, so it's strange that their is a right and wrong way to spend your spare time.

 

What kind of gatekeeping is happening anyway? This thread exists so that non-WR runs would have an outlet, while threads where the WRs get posted would be kept tidy and readable for everybody else. Imagine the classic Doom(1) thread got bloated with "Hey guys, I'm new to speedrunning. Here's my e1m1 in 12 seconds. Feedback is appreciated". It would become pretty annoying to browse for any actual improvements eventually, which is one part of the reason why people usually kept their non-WR runs to themselves, or shared them elsewhere, in case they wanted to discuss their runs.

 

Sure it's a hobby, and you can spend your time on whatever you want, but this hobby is happening within the confines of a community which usually relied on the efforts of very few people to maintain archives, for example. Andy Olivera has been soloing the old DSDA in its entirety for years and years, for free, too... The least we could do at the time was not to make his work even harder by way of spamming demos in this forum that didn't end up improving anything, or showing something new. Likewise, the new DSDA is also maintained by a very small group of people, who are updating it in their spare time, and for free. There is no automated process behind any of this. So if we want to have an archive which we can use to track the progression of WRs, then it's only logical not to make people's work unnecessarily difficult by way of bloating the damn thing with personal bests which are still miles away from record-territory.

 

What I'm saying is that this "attitude" wasn't born out of a desire to gatekeep anything, it was born from necessity for the most part. And it still is very much a necessity today, but now this thread exists as well so you can share whatever you want to, but without overburdening the archive maintainers. That's a win-win as far as I'm concerned.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not against this thread, I think it's a good idea. It's the notion that 'if someone's done it faster than you, why even bother posting?' that is off-putting to new players.

 

Edit: The fact that this spawned from what was initially a tongue in cheek, joke post at my own expense seems ridiculous.

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Posted (edited)

I assume when you post a demo, you're posting it for other people to watch - otherwise why post it in a public forum? If it's for feedback, the discord is probably a better place, since more people will take notice, some of whom like to help people out. If it's not, then what is it for? If your goal is to show you exist in the community, there are more interactive ways than posting a demo.

 

This community isn't "leaderboard focused". We never have been and likely never will be. When you post a non-record, it doesn't give you any kind of placing in a hierarchy because almost no one has entries in it. You'll neither know where you stand nor have a meaningful position. So that kind of motivation is out as well.

 

If you want to track your personal progress or you're just proud of a run and want it immortalized, that's great. Regardless of the reason, everyone is welcome to post their runs. But I don't understand why you'd be criticizing other people for not being interested in these kinds of runs. The audience for "already done" demos is understandably low (though not zero). That should neither surprise you nor put you off.

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I never once criticised other people for not taking interest in the runs. On re-reading, I think this spawned from a slight misinterpretation of Grazza's initial post on my end. Let my take this chance to clarify my position and see if I can explain the mix up.

1. I like this thread. It's a good idea to have non WR runs in their own thread. It's a winning idea from my point of view.

2. Pretty much all speedrun games these days are leaderboard based. I know Doom isn't and it's been around so long that community structures are set in stone at this point, but new players will come in with the modern day, leaderboard based perspective.

3. You now have this thread. That gives the impression that it's ok to post runs that don't touch WR pace. New players will be that; new. They won't have played much more than IWADs if they even know the modding scene exists. They will be excited to join a new community and their firts recordings will a lot of the time be for IWADS or other highly popular wads. Yes these runs won't be important or entertaining to watch for anyone else, but it's inevitible that more of these runs will be posted if old school Doom running continues to get more popular.
4. Even though no one will care, if someone has taken the time to record a demo and post it, that's a sincere effort on their end to take part in the community. That effort should be supported by the community, which you have done with this very thread. 

I think I took grazza's post more negitively that it was, now that I re-read it. I got the impression he actively resented new players like myself for posting crappy times and it felt like the community stance was that I'd wasted my time playing this game. I know I'm not a good player and that's all the joke was meant to be. Initially I had no idea what was going on around here and just posted runs for anything, but I learned that's not how things are done and more recently, I've only been attempting runs where I think I have a chance of taking the record.

I hope that clears some things up, and sorry for and misinterpretations/communication on my behalf.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, noob_killer012345678 said:

Hello im back with another run, this time the intire E1 from doom 1, its still ITYTD and idk how to measure time when not just 1 level so here

 

speedrun 2.zip

Your episode time was 17:11. Some feedback: 
- Spend more time learning the routes of levels. Going to e1m9 is unnecessary, and you often became lost in other levels. 

- Spend some time practising your movement, in particular your shooting accuracy, effectively straferunning and not running into walls as much. 

- A resource for getting to know appropriate file naming conventions can be found here, and it's a good thing to learn. 

- Not to re-open this apparently sensitive can of worms, but, seeing your final episode time is easy to do in multiple other source ports. I see you're still using chocolate doom, if for whatever reason you are still unwilling to try other ports you can play your demos in, for example, PrBoom+ to see the final time at the end. 

- You're obviously in the learning stages so I know it isn't your intention to try to challenge Dwaze or Zero-Master's demos or anything, but just an FYI so you're aware, ITYTD-Speed isn't recognised as an official category on DSDA. If you're enjoying doing it then certainly keep it up, though, but yeah just so you know.

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Posted (edited)

Hello everyone. It's my first time doing a speed run (I mean like ever) and I hope, I have done everything right and according to the rules. I had to try many hours with many, many attempts... but that's not important (comments file inside zip has more info xD)

Thank you very much for this opportunity to post my first (not attempt, but best and can't get better) run.

 - Shelly

Edit: I'm so sorry. I forgot to mention that it is a demo from Doom 1 (with doom1.wad)

 

Demo for UV Speed E1M1 Hangar [10s]

 

demo_e1m1_hangar_nr16.zip

Edited by kidinashell : forgot to mention some things

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