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lazygecko

This does not feel like a Doom game

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9 hours ago, warman2012 said:

Exactly who in the hell is gonna want to be bogged down in forced resource management and forced RPG elements in an FPS? Not just any FPS, but the twitchiest twitch godfather shooter of all time, DOOM?! Keep Fallout's mechanics, in Fallout. Mixing Borderlands and Doom is NEVER a good idea. And before you go saying: "Look at how successful the game is," most of those guys are either casuals who just accept whatever Triple A devs forcefeed them or stuck in collective fanboi echo chambers that only forcefeed themselves propaganda that anything labeled Doom is great and there can be no wrong in what these devs do.


Mate, this is absolute nonsense.

The resource management and "RPG elements" are no more "forced" than any other new game mechanic that has been introduced to the Doom series over the years. What the hell does it even mean for elements of a constructed thing like a video game to be "forced"? Surely it's all "forced"?

I've never played Fallout or Borderlands, but if we're allowed to make judgements based on video footage, then I'd say that Doom Eternal is nothing like either of those games. The new gameplay mechanics demand that the player think ahead a few steps more than in your typical FPS game. You can't just cheese everything that appears right in front of you with the super shotgun any more.

If the developers just wanted another generic shooter to appeal to casuals, then they've done precisely the opposite of what they should have done. The game demands far too much of the player for it to appeal to casuals, unless you're using some really weird definition of "casual" which basically amounts to "person who likes new games that I don't like".

Doom was never about RPG leveling mechanics or pinata confetti addiction orgies, Doom was about mindless action and fast paced gameplay that never apologized about being what it is.



The fast-paced action is still there! Surely you've watched at least one video with Doom Eternal gameplay in it? It's certainly kicking my goddamn ass!

Let's focus on the health/ammo/armour thing briefly. Why is it any more ridiculous for the enemies to drop those things when killed, than it is to find those things scattered all about the level, as is FPS tradition? Neither make any kind of real-world sense; you'd think the Legions of Hell would at least try to make your job harder by not leaving health, ammo and armour lying around for you to pick up.

Gamers had to figure shit out on their own.



You can skip the tutorials if you want. Personally given all the new shit that Eternal throws at you, I appreciate them. But it's perfectly possible to do well without them, Markiplier managed it.

Now we got this game inserting "mortally challenged" for demons and telling you how to beat the enemies. (I know that is a joke but why even include something like that? Politics suck, and I don't wanna be reminded of the soy community at all, even if its a joke.)



What on Earth have the jokes in the first level got to do with the tutorials?


BTW, soy doesn't do what you think it does. Asian cultures have been consuming it for goddamn millennia without becoming feminised liberals. It's a trope originating from scientifically illiterate bodybuilders, and then picked up and spread about by hate groups who couldn't be bothered to do the research. Using it makes you sound like a complete tool.
 

No the only thing glorious is how fandoms have fallen in all areas today to satisfy the casual community who need to be guided like children how to play a game and to pander to the soy and victim communities. Quality is gone, and I am afraid it will not be coming back.



People who want clear instructions on how to play the game they bought are part of the "victim community"? Taking the piss out of insincere corporate woke-speak is to "pander to the soy"?

Did it hurt when you stretched that much?

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The aesthetic is very Doomy but that I think is where the similarities end, this is coming from someone who really liked Doom 2016 as a reboot and a game in itself. I'm trying to think of what other game Doom Eternal does feel like but I'm drawing a blank. Some kind of migraine simulator?

Edited by DoomUK

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We're going to stop flaming each other here, or there will be consequences. Instead of posting why somebody's opinion is wrong, post your own thoughts instead and let others make up their own minds.

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36 minutes ago, NoXion said:

 

 

Quote

 

 

Quote

 

Welp, to recover from crappy technical difficulties I am just gonna have to say Eternal needs the collectathon leveling up for ammo and insta confetti recovery removed to be somewhat workable.

Edited by warman2012

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The Doom Comic is not Doom. Brutal Doom is not Doom. And Doom Eternal is trying hard to be both Doom, and not Doom at the same time...

Frankly Doom Eternal's method of lore (just from the glimpses and videos I'm seeing) is to just throw shit at the wall, or outright retcon information in even DOOM (2016) which is just blegh. Just too much shit to unpack, the whole Doom Universe angle is trying too hard with the lore. Also, where the hell is the Wretch, and Corrax?

Not a fan of the use of a Hub either tbh.

Also the classic Doom Marine armour just looks like crap, a pretty big hottake that people will hate, but it just doesn't transfer to modern-day graphics effectively enough, the Classic Doom cover armour still looks miles ahead better than DE's crappy "just a QC asset lift" (even if IMO the classic marine armour still looks daggy as all hell lmao)

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This game has tons of elements that never associated with Doom series. Tons. Not one or two. One or two - it's OK, devs trying to do something new. But if it has tons of completely different stuff it makes game feels a completely different. And visually they ruined all atmosphere too. Dot. I have nothing to say more.

 

Done with critics. Fat taco knows better how Doom must be. "Cartoonish violence". Pfff...

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8 hours ago, Mangcubus said:

This is the same site that freaks out on people that use mouselook in classic doom, I'm taking every opinion I read with 46 grains of salt.

So its ESFtBanXUAEc66G.thumb.jpeg.c56d2631b5f66 or tails for you.
 

13 hours ago, lazygecko said:

I don't really have a problem with games punishing you if you don't "git gud". I love the Dark Souls games.

If this was not an actual problem, then why is the grunt of your post exactly that? I take that Eternal ups the challenge, and i have already seen some absolutely cringe worthy gameplay of users approaching it as a slow paced title. Eternal, very much like Serious Sam, definitely dislikes the cover mechanic. Its fast paced for a reason.

 

That does not mean you can vary by your decisions, i am just saying, Eternal's fast paced nature definitely requires fast-paced thinking. This is not a direct criticism on your point of contention, mind you.

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16 minutes ago, XLightningStormL said:

The Doom Comic is not Doom. Brutal Doom is not Doom. And Doom Eternal is trying hard to be both Doom, and not Doom at the same time...

Frankly Doom Eternal's method of lore (just from the glimpses and videos I'm seeing) is to just throw shit at the wall, or outright retcon information in even DOOM (2016) which is just blegh. Just too much shit to unpack, the whole Doom Universe angle is trying too hard with the lore. Also, where the hell is the Wretch, and Corrax?

Not a fan of the use of a Hub either tbh.

Also the classic Doom Marine armour just looks like crap, a pretty big hottake that people will hate, but it just doesn't transfer to modern-day graphics effectively enough, the Classic Doom cover armour still looks miles ahead better than DE's crappy "just a QC asset lift" (even if IMO the classic marine armour still looks daggy as all hell lmao)

I agree with everything thing here save one. The classic armor, it looks pretty damn spot on with the art style of the 90's. Now is it faithfully reproduced against art of similar caliber? No, it looks out of place next to the 2020 redesigns of the rest of Eternal.

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You know, in some ways this game does remind me a bit of Castlevania Lords of Shadow, back then I remember people calling it tough / brutal because they couldn't time their parrying right or had hard times dodging enemy attacks, it also had a similar resource management mechanic where you decide if you want to absorb power orbs that drop from enemies to use them for Light or Shadow Magic, even the Combat Cross resembles the Super Shotgun's Hook thing since you could use it to traverse certain points of the levels, pull some enemies towards you or choke some of the bigger enemies.

 

And before you start dogpiling on me I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing or not Doom.

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4 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

  

The RPG mechanics are forced in when you can barely carry any kind of ammo for any of your weapons. Leveling up to have some kind of ammo capacity is something that ticks me off just as much as having to level up gun damage in a game like Borderlands. Leveling up is foreign, makes no sense, and should not be in FPS.


I disagree. I kept running out of ammo early on, so I used two of the first Sentinel Crystals I found to increase my ammo capacity. Having done that makes the game more forgiving of my natural playstyle, which makes the mechanics less about being forced and more about one's ability to adapt.

Mixing elements from different genres is how video gaming evolves as an art form. Tyrian would never have been as fun as it was if the developers had left out the ability to upgrade your weapons/shields/spacecraft and just kept them the same throughout the game, like in earlier vertical scrolling shooters.

More RPG leveling mechanics than I can wave a finger at and so many God damned leveling up items to collect? Yeah I'm gonna say Fallout/Borderlands was here...



Loads of games have some form of levelling up, upgrading your equipment, or otherwise making improvements to your character's base abilities. Not just RPGs. As far as I'm concerned they're a legitimate way of adding mechanical complexity to a game.

The only thing I want to do is just cut out with SSG and not have to think more. If I gotta do that,

personally it's not for me.



If the mechanical progression is too rich for your blood, then that's fine. I could never get into Dwarf Fortress, even though that looks like a really fun game once you get to know it. But I think saying that such elements shouldn't be in an FPS, as if video game genres were holy writ instead of mere convention, is to go too far.

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9 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I was gonna add you to the ignore list, but you're special so i'll stick around.

 

Jazz, I took you off Ignore shortly after I put you on it because I'm still curious as to what your replies to anyone would be.

 

I won't Ignore anyone else now, I'll just refrain from posting the stuff I have this morning. I know now that I'll never change some minds.

 

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22 minutes ago, NoXion said:

.
 



 

 

 


If the mechanical progression is too rich for your blood, then that's fine. I could never get into Dwarf Fortress, even though that looks like a really fun game once you get to know it. But I think saying that such elements shouldn't be in an FPS, as if video game genres were holy writ instead of mere convention, is to go too far.
 

 

Oh but I will say that keeping RPG leveling up elements SHOULD be holy writ, at least for twitchy action arcade shooters. Want to pretend to be lost in a camp with leveling up along with food and water mechanics? The likes of Rust and Ark await you. But keep that out of Doom. Just, no. Just the mere thought of RPGs boil my blood. I trashed Borderlands 1 the second I found damage leveling up was a thing. I regret I never thermited that SOB game into oblivion.

Edited by warman2012

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This thread has truly become a safe-haven for DE haters (especially for guys like Warman who have nothing but pure hate for anything and everything related to new Doom games).

 

Now I don't deny that the new games have certain shorcomings. Doom 2016 had solid core gameplay and had great visual balance (Doom 3 is too dark and bland while Eternal looks a bit too colorful). But D2016 lacked combat variety especially in the second half with every fight becoming a locked in arena over arena. Also some upgrades and runes were clearly more powerful than others (like Siege mode of Gauss cannon, Mobile Turret of chaingun and Explosive shot of shotgun).

 

Doom Eternal seems better than Doom 2016 in level design department and the upgrades (from the looks of it) also seem better balanced. But I won't deny that the game does seem a bit too colorful at places while looking serious and gritty in other areas. Also the lack of snapmap and standard multiplayer modes is disappointing. The additional movement and attack moves can also be overwhelming at first (but I guess it gets better after sometime).

 

55 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Oh but I will say that keeping RPG leveling up elements SHOULD be holy writ, at least for twitchy action arcade shooters.

 

For a primarily multiplayer focused shooters (like Quake), you are right. For a primarily single player focused game, I don't see why this is a problem.

Edited by ReaperAA

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26 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Oh but I will say that keeping RPG leveling up elements SHOULD be holy writ, at least for twitchy action arcade shooters. Want to pretend to be lost in a camp with leveling up along with food and water mechanics? The likes of Rust and Ark await you. But keep that out of Doom. Just, no. Just the mere thought of RPGs boil my blood. I trashed Borderlands 1 the second I found damage leveling up was a thing. I regret I never thermited that SOB game into oblivion.


There aren't any survival mechanics in Doom Eternal though. The game won't kill you for not drinking water or if you fail to collect sticks for a fire, and the environmental hazards are at worst an intermittent slap on the wrist, rather than an ever-present danger that can lead to permanently losing equipment. The Doom Slayer doesn't have to craft or repair anything, and I think it would be a worse game if he did. Even the bottomless pits don't throw you back to your last checkpoint, because it's pretty obvious that the game wants you to get stuck back into murdering demons as quickly as possible.

I agree that straight-up damage levelling doesn't sound like a fun mechanic, and it wouldn't feel right in Doom. Why should an abstract number dictate how much damage different people can do with the same ammunition? But there's no damage levelling in Eternal. You can improve your ammo/health/armour caps, but a super shotgun blast is a super shotgun blast and the only way to (temporarily) make it better is to pick up a Quad Damage.

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I like the RPG elements because it adds extra rewards to secret hunting. Plus finding a Backpack in Classic Doom is a bit like getting an upgrade in an RPG. Or starting with the lowly Pistol and having to explore the world or defeat enemies (Shotgunners and Chaingunners) to find more powerful equipment is reminiscent of RPGs too. Exploring open-ended labyrinthine environments while searching for keycards or activating switches to advance is typical in many RPGs. Or having to open a map to navigate where to go next. You even had an inventory that tracked weapons, ammo, and keys. It's no secret that id Software of the 90s were fans of Dungeons & Dragons after all.

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1 hour ago, Foebane72 said:

 

Jazz, I took you off Ignore shortly after I put you on it because I'm still curious as to what your replies to anyone would be.

 

I won't Ignore anyone else now, I'll just refrain from posting the stuff I have this morning. I know now that I'll never change some minds.

 

Welp, im pretty much done replaying to the you or warman and qdash, since you are right, no one is going to change their minds.

your minds have already been made up even before Doom Eternal was announced. Its BAD and will always BE BAD

 

I may have been defensive, but I don't consider my words objectively correct unlike the "Dum Eternal is objectively not Doom" people i've encountered here.

 

Doom Eternal is a success and that is something no one can deny.

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32 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Dude calms down, give him a second chance.

 

Fair enough.

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1 hour ago, Foebane72 said:

Jazz, I took you off Ignore shortly after I put you on it because I'm still curious as to what your replies to anyone would be.

 

I won't Ignore anyone else now, I'll just refrain from posting the stuff I have this morning. I know now that I'll never change some minds.

 

Isn't the whole point of ignoring someone because you aren't interested in their POV anymore? Aside that you can just skim over the post in your head obviously.

 

Also changing minds on the internet, on Doomworld of all places is a slaughterlevel difficulty in and out of itself. ;)

41 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

This thread has truly become a safe-haven for DE haters (especially for guys like Warman and Foebane who have nothing but pure hate for anything and everything related to new Doom games).

FWIW one conclusion i have read of Eternal is: ''Its more of Doom 2016, + some RPG mechanics.''

 

Which i guess is a fair conclusion. When judged as a whole, i am going to assume Eternal is a fine entry within the Doom series, just more of Doom 2016's DNA, really.

 

That's still not a bad deal. But i can imagine people being disappointed that Eternal isn't more than the sum of its parts.

 

10 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Doom Eternal is not Eternal Doom and that is something no one can deny.

FTFY. :D

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13 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Welp, im pretty much done replaying to the you or warman and qdash, since you are right, no one is going to change their minds.

your minds have already been made up even before Doom Eternal was announced. Its BAD and will always BE BAD

 

I may have been defensive, but I don't consider my words objectively correct unlike the "Dum Eternal is objectively not Doom" people i've encountered here.

 

Doom Eternal is a success and that is something no one can deny.

 

And also, if you're nitpicking the game as hard as possible and bashing for all the bizarre reasons or simply because it isn't essentially classic Doom 2.0, while trying to push a subjective opinion as an objective fact, you really, really shouldn't be surprised when people start dogpiling on you.

 

Some of us may have been defensive, sure, but how come no one got into defensive mode when other people voices their criticism in a constructive and respectful way to the hard word of the developers instead of raging non-stop about how modern Doom is dead to them, nothing can change their minds, and how we all like a meme/dumbed down version of what Doom once was.

 

As for me, based on what I've seen so far Eternal has really expanded on the foundation of 2016 and feels a lot more varied and less repetitive than it, which also cranking the movement and complexity to 11. We'll see how this stands at the end though, but for now, I'm rather pleased with what id has accomplished with Eternal.

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41 minutes ago, NoXion said:

You can improve your ammo/health/armour caps, but a super shotgun blast is a super shotgun blast and the only way to (temporarily) make it better is to pick up a Quad Damage.

Wait, I thought it got renamed into something else?

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48 minutes ago, XLightningStormL said:

Doom Eternal is trying hard to be both Doom, and not Doom at the same time...

Huh. If you think about it...yes actually. And not in something specific but game as a whole.
 

14 minutes ago, NoXion said:

Mixing elements from different genres is how video gaming evolves as an art form. Tyrian would never have been as fun as it was if the developers had left out the ability to upgrade your weapons/shields/spacecraft and just kept them the same throughout the game, like in earlier vertical scrolling shooters.

Well, yes. But most of the time RPG elements done just to create an impression that you actually progressing through game. I.e. here, new gun that looks, shoots and sounds as you old gun, but have +4 to damage.

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Lol the screeching in here. As for my first impression, I'm still trying to process everything. I''m having fun and keep wanting to get on again to play it so that's good. Levels are super linear, but play well for being so linear, I hope I see them open up more. Gameplay seems really restrictive, "play the way I wan't you to play or get fucked". I'm ok with this in the same sense I was ok with it in Seikiro, yet I feel for those who don't like it.  I think there are a lot of fair criticisms in here, and a lot of snarky individuals that wouldn't be satisfied unless they directed the game themselves.

 

 

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What it's this thread HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, i will no coment on the people thrinking Doom Eternal it's a RPG, i trink my life in this thread it's over.

1 hour ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

 

Spoiler

image.png.833f8fe23116ff754a05d2cc7ebb63dd.png

 

Spoiler

image.png.eed929909fe6efb75a14dfad5923e86f.png


Also, in my Steam everything it's positive, and im having a hard time looking for a negative without filtrering only the negative
 

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What I think is it's a simple case of people having a hard time adjusting. We've had a relatively sizable gap between a new installment to the Doom franchise. And between then and Doom 2016 we were left with Doom 3 (which didn't satisfy a lot of fans) and multiple source ports of Doom which offered new opportunities for modding community. You'd obviously be hard pressed to find signs of a mod that didn't try to at least shake things up a bit, well before Doom 2016 or Eternal did; Brutal Doom, Complex Doom, HXRTC and DoomRL Arsenal (to name a few). The community was relatively small but thriving with same source code, very much so.

 

It was inevitable that if ID software was ever going to bring the Doom name back into the crowds, they'd have to spice things up a bit. It isn't surprising that Doom 2016 and Eternal was going to have some growing pains. A lot of people are finding it difficult to accept that this is what Doom was going to be at one point or another and it's obviously subjective that whether or not this was the best outcome for Doom. But you've got to admit that they've done a damn good job at attracting newcomers and impressing old fans.

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1 hour ago, seed said:

 

 

Some of us may have been defensive, sure, but how come no one got into defensive mode when other people voices their criticism in a constructive and respectful way to the hard word of the developers instead of raging non-stop about how modern Doom is dead to them, nothing can change their minds, and how we all like a meme/dumbed down version of what Doom once was.

 

Placing comments in opposition to an idea in your words "respectfully" and with an inferred-or-not-sense of open-mindedness, invites the opposition to either more easily ignore your comment or think that you, the writer writing in this manner, are of the mind to join their bandwagon at some point and are just simply misguided, whether the opposition is aware of this conciously or not.

 

Placing a firm stance of non tolerance is more apt to get the point across, and expressing the sheer disdain for which something is intolerable is more reflective of the seriousness that someone has for their belief. This brokers no room for confusion and reflects a standard or belief which is firm. (I cannot believe I just explained this.)

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2 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Here's the most-upvoted negative review. It's also the most-upvoted review at the time of my response to yours.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/dimgl/recommended/782330/


In reallity, here it's the more upvoted.
image.png.851e58838bf60e325bc406128993b927.png

Jokes aside, i just finally find it turning my steam review preference language to english. But not hide the fact tht for that 1 negative opinion there it's another 9 positives, and at  least 5 with a real review intead of a meme review.

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17 hours ago, lazygecko said:

In Eternal they've designed the whole game around really forcing you to use all these things that are locked behind charges/cooldowns.

So you want the game to be easier for you?

 

8 hours ago, D88M3R said:

"you have to play EXACTLY the way i want you to" gameplay style just sucks

You should bash COD then, not Doom. Neither Eternal or 2016 are that way.

 

9 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

Does not feel like a proper Doom game to me

It's difficult, so it's not a Doom game.

Very bad reasons.

 

9 hours ago, Buckshot said:

which somewhat felt more like DOOM 3 on speed

Doom 2016 wasn't horror, so I disagree with you on this point. But I 100% agree with you on all other points you made.

 

13 hours ago, Super Mighty G said:

This is how you phrase a dislike for something without injecting bias.

Agreed. He doesn't cause drama for his dislike.

 

Still though when this dude posted the video, I should have seen this type of dislike coming:

 

 

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What is a video from 2018 supposed to prove? that you link ancient videos based off promo material?

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