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lazygecko

This does not feel like a Doom game

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I thought the way they set up the icon of sin fight felt like a real throwback to the original in a way. I loved that fight to death. Definitely felt very doom to me. That's not to say it won't to others

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35 minutes ago, MrDeAD1313 said:

I thought the way they set up the icon of sin fight felt like a real throwback to the original in a way. I loved that fight to death. Definitely felt very doom to me. That's not to say it won't to others

 

Yes, the culmination of Doom as a franchise, if you ask me.

 

In fact, I realised that the pattern of the two games of each generation were identical:

Ultimate Doom and Doom 2016 has the Cyberdemon, then the Spider Mastermind

Doom 2 and Doom Eternal have the Icon of Sin at the end

 

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9 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

 

Yes, the culmination of Doom as a franchise, if you ask me.

 

In fact, I realised that the pattern of the two games of each generation were identical:

Ultimate Doom and Doom 2016 has the Cyberdemon, then the Spider Mastermind

Doom 2 and Doom Eternal have the Icon of Sin at the end

 

 

So you saying we either fight The Mother Demon from 64 in the next game or we fight Maledict from Doom 3?

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6 minutes ago, ZALGO said:

 

So you saying we either fight The Mother Demon from 64 in the next game or we fight Maledict from Doom 3?

 

Who knows?

 

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3 hours ago, ZALGO said:

Honestly the only boss that could be deemed as tiresome would be the Doom Hunters and that is only for the sheer shock of dealing with two right after having trouble with the first one.

Very much agreed here. Marauder is a bitch, sure but in the ARC Complex mission it isn't as terrible as some other places it spawns in.

 

3 hours ago, ZALGO said:

Khan Maykr

 

3 hours ago, ZALGO said:

Icon of Sin

Haven't reached these, so I cannot comment. I just passed the point of no return though.

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For now my only real gripe is the lack of liberty in the way you approach monsters, the window of vulnerability is a bit too tight for my taste.

Example:too much reliance on chainsaw, sticky bomb techniques and

Spoiler

Marauders and boss with small attack windows

 On UV on consoles(controller) it breaks the fun sometimes.
The platforming is a bit boring at times and some spaces could have been filled with more monsters.
The art direction is more on point than the last game tho if not for this weird neon colors of the pickups(in fashion nowadays maybe).
The tone is extra goofy, i prefer the more subtle humor of the other games.

Oh and the

Spoiler

Super Gore Nest

is my favorite doom map ever i think

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I think it's a bit too complex... it almost feels like a moba game with all the cooldowns. And before you say "git gud" I finished the game on Nightmare with all slayers gates complete (before the ending). Previous doom games, including doom 2016 were way more simpler. You can make a game challenging without adding so much bloat. Honestly the grenade launcher should be a normal weapon you can switch to and with proper balance, so there's no need for cooldown.

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If anyone were to handle a Doom reboot, what would they add to keep it fresh?

Knowing this series' history with modding and changing looks/directions, i wonder if there would ever be another reboot, even if it was spin off material.

I know Hugo Martin likes comic books and Star Wars (Not sure about the EU), so regardless of the ups and downs of the new games, he knows that he isn't the only one who thought of "expanding" Doom.

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3 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

Eternal is more Doom than how Doom 3 is.

Not to some of us it ain't.

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2 minutes ago, Antroid said:

Not to some of us it ain't.

 

Nah I really can't find any similarities that can force Doom 3 to be more like classic Doom. Doom 3 is far more serious in tone which contrasts to the campy tone of the originals (whether intentionally or not, it is still campy as it is). Enemy designs have no real similarity to that of classic Doom with exception to Archies and partly the cyberdemon (My pinky.... noooo). Not to mention the map design in Doom 3 has no real credence to secrets or the like, sure their are secrets but they are nowhere close to the interesting or out of the world as Classic. I'm saying this as a person who started Doom 3 as my first exposure to the series and who fell in love with the atmosphere of the game. Hell the only real thing Doom 3 has going for it is Hell itself, but it is way too short and only lasts for one level (I know Resurrection of Evil and lost mission exists, but I am talking about the vanilla experience as gameplay for vanilla is different from those two).

 

Eternal not only holds a map design that caters to classic (Super Gore Nest, Taras Nabad for secrets, Nekroval for hell, and many others.), it also has enemies that hold the most similarity to Dooms 1 and 2 (Pinkies look stellar as always, Cyberdemon Tyrant looks straight out of Doom 1, Pain Elementals, Archviles). It also holds the campy attitude in similar nature to the old games (You can say it detracts from the tone, but then Nekroval exists so yeah...) and has a Hell level that fits most in line with how the old games designed Hell. Gameplay is a major change yes, but in terms of pace and intensity of combat it holds a similar feel to that of later levels in Doom 2 with you circlestrafing and shooting enemies while dodging a boatload of projectiles (Doom eternal just gives you more mobility and tools to make such gameplay more thrilling).

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7 minutes ago, ZALGO said:

 

Nah I really can't find any similarities that can force Doom 3 to be more like classic Doom. Doom 3 is far more serious in tone which contrasts to the campy tone of the originals (whether intentionally or not, it is still campy as it is).

We've been over this many times. Not everyone sees the old Doom games as campy. For me Doom 3 is much more in line with how I feel about Doom 1 and 2 than Eternal. Eternal is the least doomy game of the series for me. Both for the mechanics and the tone.

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44 minutes ago, ZALGO said:

 

Nah I really can't find any similarities that can force Doom 3 to be more like classic Doom. Doom 3 is far more serious in tone which contrasts to the campy tone of the originals (whether intentionally or not, it is still campy as it is). Enemy designs have no real similarity to that of classic Doom with exception to Archies and partly the cyberdemon (My pinky.... noooo). Not to mention the map design in Doom 3 has no real credence to secrets or the like, sure their are secrets but they are nowhere close to the interesting or out of the world as Classic. I'm saying this as a person who started Doom 3 as my first exposure to the series and who fell in love with the atmosphere of the game. Hell the only real thing Doom 3 has going for it is Hell itself, but it is way too short and only lasts for one level (I know Resurrection of Evil and lost mission exists, but I am talking about the vanilla experience as gameplay for vanilla is different from those two).

 

Eternal not only holds a map design that caters to classic (Super Gore Nest, Taras Nabad for secrets, Nekroval for hell, and many others.), it also has enemies that hold the most similarity to Dooms 1 and 2 (Pinkies look stellar as always, Cyberdemon Tyrant looks straight out of Doom 1, Pain Elementals, Archviles). It also holds the campy attitude in similar nature to the old games (You can say it detracts from the tone, but then Nekroval exists so yeah...) and has a Hell level that fits most in line with how the old games designed Hell. Gameplay is a major change yes, but in terms of pace and intensity of combat it holds a similar feel to that of later levels in Doom 2 with you circlestrafing and shooting enemies while dodging a boatload of projectiles (Doom eternal just gives you more mobility and tools to make such gameplay more thrilling).

 

See, the new games seem similar in a very surface level way, but the tone and feel of the game are totally different to me. You've outlined a lot of superficial elements (creature and environment design) but nothing more than that

 

Look at it this way: If you replaced all the martians in Mars Attacks, for instance, with Xenomorphs, and swapped the modern-day USA setting for Alien's dystopian future, but otherwise made no changes to the plot, cast etc. the film wouldn't suddenly start to "feel like" Alien.

 

The new games honestly have more in common thematically with modern superhero movies, crossed with a sprinkle of warhammer 40k, than they do the old games (this isn't to say that this is a bad thing, I love the ULTIMATE BADASS DEATH METAL stuff, could do without the self-aware millennial humor though ;p). At least that's how it seems to me.

 

So, the old Doom, even Doom 3 seem thematically similar in a way that the new games aren't. No epic backstories, larger-than-life characters or quippy humor, just a lonely warrior fighting aliens and monsters in a twisted illogical dimension. Sometimes it's creepy, sometimes action packed, but it generally felt like a mishmash of different ideas that somehow worked when put together (speaking more to classic than 3).

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1 minute ago, xdarkmasterx said:

 

See, the new games seem similar in a very surface level way, but the tone and feel of the game are totally different to me. You've outlined a lot of superficial elements (creature and environment design) but nothing more than that

 

Look at it this way: If you replaced all the martians in Mars Attacks, for instance, with Xenomorphs, and swapped the modern-day USA setting for Alien's dystopian future, but otherwise made no changes to the plot, cast etc. the film wouldn't suddenly start to "feel like" Alien.

 

The new games honestly have more in common thematically with modern superhero movies, crossed with a sprinkle of warhammer 40k, than they do the old games (this isn't to say that this is a bad thing, I love the ULTIMATE BADASS DEATH METAL stuff, could do without the self-aware millennial humor though ;p). At least that's how it seems to me.

 

Then it would become more like Aliens rather than Alien. The plot is more campy yes, but the creatures still retain their hunter lifestyle. The plot wouldn't change but the tension becomes far more different in turn. Xenomorphs are straight up more terrifying than the martians and would make the tone of Mars Attack feel darker thanks to the sudden change in tension and tone. Such similar ideas come in the form of the original Predator film, which held a cheesy military shooter tone up until the Predator begins his hunt, albeit the tone remains the same throughout thanks to Arnold, well, being Arnold.

 

In a way, Doom as a franchise in tone feels more in line with Predator with a campy tone and atmosphere that itself changes with each new film. AVP feeling more like Doom 3 or 64, while old Predators 1 and 2 more in line with classic and eternal (We can say the new Predator in line with eternal as well, but definitely NOT in quality... god I hated Predator 2019).

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2 minutes ago, ZALGO said:

 

Then it would become more like Aliens rather than Alien. The plot is more campy yes, but the creatures still retain their hunter lifestyle. The plot wouldn't change but the tension becomes far more different in turn. Xenomorphs are straight up more terrifying than the martians and would make the tone of Mars Attack feel darker thanks to the sudden change in tension and tone.

 

I was responding to your assertion that if the setting and creatures *look* similar to how they did in the old games, that the new Dooms themselves must necessarily carry same tone as the old ones did. Just imagine Xenomorphs going "ack ack" and making slapstick jokes :p

 

 

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