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Tony_Danza_the_boss

Is anybody else seriously disappointed with Eternal?

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I just finished it and have to say I'm pretty underwhelmed. There are elements of greatness within the game, but it ultimately feels like it takes two steps back from what made Doom 2016 so good. The glory kills, combat, graphics are all top notch, but it really stops there.

 

The platforming is utterly ridiculous. This is Doom, not Super Mario. Why am i jumping from platform to platform, doing Tomb Raider flips off monkey bars to get to a shiny 1UP? Chuck E. Cheese tokens for suit upgrades? Floating, glowing weapon pickups straight out of 1996 instead of the cool pickup animations from D16 we got? What game am I even playing?

 

And then there's the resource management. My god running out of ammo for my shotgun on the first level was downright infuriating. You're telling me I can't rip and tear how i want and have to watch a lengthy chainsaw animation 4-5 times per fight to farm ammo. Are you kidding me?

 

The story is equally convoluted. D16 was concise, focused and didn't bounce around from locales other than Mars and Hell. Here, you're in a different dimension/planet every level and it's incredibly jarring. On top of that, there are entire textlogs you have to read if you want to understand what happened between D16 and Eternal. And the absurd amount of lore that was added to this game is so incredibly dumb. Someone at Id is a 40k fanboy and was definitely inspired by the lore of that series and tried to bring it here which does not work at all. I don't care about the Makyrs, the Argenta, Urdak, etc. Doom has been about humanity and hell, the UAC, weapons, and killing demons. The sheer absurdity and convolution of lore that was added in for no reason whatsoever makes the game incredibly confusing if you're not willing to spend good amounts of time reading the textlogs you pick up.

 

I really wanted to like this game, and as a shooter, it's decent. But the changes to the formula and to the overall game are just too jarring for me to really like it as a Doom game. Jarring interruptive cutscenes and tutorials, abhorrent ammo caps, ridiculous platforming and a story that reads like a coked-up fan fiction gone bad just really detract from an otherwise decent Doom game. Really hope Id do not go this arcadey way for the next installment. 

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Posted (edited)

Short Answer: Yes

 

Long Answer: Yes, There have been people who are disappointed by Doom Eternal even before it came out or maybe even before it was revealed.

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Posted (edited)

Doom Arcade is better name for this number of events, based on last game stats like it was with Fallout 76. It's sucks how they declined all "background" of this series, turned tables again and splitted fanbase by two parts.

 

It's can be OK - games are just games. But it was one of my favorite series. Thee biggest disappointment about Doom Eternal - I don't wanna wait for another 4 years for their next game. :( I hope it will be new Quake, because Doom is dead now(for me, in my opinion, IMHO, you know that it mean).

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Posted (edited)
On 3/22/2020 at 3:24 AM, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

The platforming is utterly ridiculous. This is Doom, not Super Mario. Why am i jumping from platform to platform, doing Tomb Raider flips off monkey bars to get to a shiny 1UP? Chuck E. Cheese tokens for suit upgrades? Floating, glowing weapon pickups straight out of 1996 instead of the cool pickup animations from D16 we got? What game am I even playing?

 

-

Edited by Foebane72

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21 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

And for loving Doom 3

I think they just got confused by your words.

There's even an entire dedicated subforum for Doom 3 here.

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Posted (edited)

Tony Danza plays DOOM? Wtf. What are your favourite memories of Who’s The Boss?

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5 minutes ago, User Name said:

Tony Danza plays DOOM? Wtf. What are your favourite memories of Who’s The Boss?

If I had to hazard I guess, I would say it was probably "being The Boss".

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45 minutes ago, Jello said:

If I had to hazard I guess, I would say it was probably "being The Boss".

I always figured Angela was the boss. 

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1 hour ago, Foebane72 said:

 

OP, shush, you'll get us all crucified with remarks like that! They've already nailed me to the cross over saying the same thing! And for loving Doom 3, too! It's a capital crime over here!

 

 

A) Again, you keep picking fights over "like Eternal/ Hate Eternal", when you acknowledged the issues stemming from how you and some others came at the game (namely, your willfully looking for things to be upset over). IE: you know well and good that you were not crucified for merely not liking the game or its direction, so really...stop acting as if its otherwise. No one has said someone can't simply not like it. What people dislike is everyone trolling about it all day and night. 

 

B) No one has ever gotten on anyones case here about liking Doom 3. The general consensus has simply been that it's the odd one in the group that some people like, and someone people didn't. I've yet to see someone jumped on for saying Doom 3 was good.

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Meh, I agree with your hate for the platforming. Totally unnecessary for the most part. In combat it's fine, it's the in-between bits that are dumb and boring.

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You don't have a single valid point here

Everything you are arguing has been seen long before its release

You could have noticed it before and just not bought the game

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Posted (edited)

I totally agree with your hate towards the platforming. Also I kinda feel cheated with the multiplayer offering in eternal. I really wish they left in deathmatch. 

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I agree with much of what you're saying but I've already moved on from Doom Eternal. I'm happy that lots of people are enjoying it, but it's really not my cup of tea. Honestly I'm having more fun replaying Doom 64 that I got as a preorder bonus (yeah yeah I know).

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I'm not really disappointed. The countless videos and pre-release material made it pretty clear what kind of game it is. I'm not gonna lie, once you get a hang of the controls including platforming, the resource management etc. it's not bad. I think they call it the fun zone and sure it's all right. I fail to see how that one narrow approach to shooting is objectively better than any other approach, but it is what it is and it's all right to be "forced" into a different playstyle than what comes naturally to you. Gives a new perspective on things.

 

That said, what bothers me most about this game is that this is all it's going to provide. It's a one-trick pony and I don't see myself ever playing it again once finished. That's no big deal really as it's more or less the standard fare for me with modern shooters. I know there are a loooot of collectibles, secret areas and whatever to find, but I don't really care to drag myself through the levels to collect arbitrary stuff that has zero grounding in the game environment and no real influence on the game past soft or hard cheat codes.

 

I love the rendering. They did an awesome job here. Glass has never looked as good as it does in this game. Geometry detail is through the roof here and there. It's great. The areas show a great sense of scale and imagination. It's just a shame that they never really use these locations for anything past combat. You never form a "relationship" with the areas, even earth is just a static movie-set. It's just on to the next dimension and area. Earth is being invaded? Who cares, look it's that tank guy from Doom3, but with horns and demon like. Want to know what's going on in the story? Read these 300 books you pick up.

 

Everybody has their own subjective stance on what Doom is, but I see Doom as a game comprised of three main aspects; Combat, suspense (or horror) and gravity. Combat is of course what immediately pops into most peoples minds when they think of Doom and that aspect definitely has to be nailed down, but when I think back I recall wandering the dark hallways, low on health, desperately trying to find some medkits. I think of the suspense, the play between light and shadows. Not knowing whether what comes around the next corner is compatible with whatever health and ammo you have. I loved that. Then there's gravity. It's arguably the weakest of the three, but I did feel like a random joe, fighting against all odds to stay alive and maybe even save whatever was left of humanity. It felt like I was placed into this nightmarish world and I would have to navigate through it. In Doom Eternal all of this is gone. There is no longer any kind of play between light and shadows. Everything is practically lit the same. I never really fear going around a corner because the health and ammo doesn't really matter. I can always chainsaw some dude and glory kill some demons. Done. It doesn't matter. And for gravity? It has none. The entire world is centered around you and moves with you.

 

I don't think it's a bad game at all. It's fun, but it's kinda empty and the whole game feels like "surface area". I'm glad that people enjoy it. Not every game, movie or whatever has to cater to everyone's taste. Some times a game wasn't made for you and that's perfectly fine.

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6 hours ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

HELL NO.

 

I'm absolutely loving it so far. I've not finished it yet, but holy shit....it's everything I wanted. 

 

From what I've seen thus far, I second this.

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You and half the Steam forums.

 

I can see why some people are disappointed in it.

I also disagree with them wholeheartedly and see Eternal as a great evolution of concepts introduced in '16.

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Posted (edited)

I'm quite disappointed also. I can't say it is a bad game, but gameplay has changed a lot and I don't like it. I have to say there are some things that I liked a lot compared to doom(2016): the less dark, colorful and B-movie style design; and the fact that with that design you can see more clearly where the enemies are in the arena and not get lost into it; more variety of scenarios; and the music is as good or even better than in 2016.

The problem is that now the aiming and shooting is only 50% of the fight, the other 50% is chainsaw, blood punch, flamethrower, glory kill, ice grenade etc. They are not optional mechanics, they are necessary to beat the game (i.e: the ammo shortage is a constant) and I came here to run, aim and shoot.  And the weaknesses of enemies... it's almost impossible to kill a cacodemon if it is not putting a bomb in its mouth, like other mechanics in the game, what could have been an interesting extra is just a repetitive thing you are forced to do again and again and again.

Just to point how different the gameplay feels, on Thursday I finished Doom(2016) on nightmare difficulty, today I'm struggling and dying A LOT in the second mission of Doom eternal in ultraviolence.

The constant appearance of collectibles, challenges, cutscenes, tutorials etc. have been also a -minor- turn off for me.

It's better? It's worst? It is quite subjective, it's a high quality game in a lot of aspects, but the gameplay is very different to D2016, and some of us are not happy with it. Maybe if I get used to the new mechanics I find the game more fun to play, but I'm not the kind of person who sees 3 seasons of a TV show he doesn't like to see if it gets interesting on the fourth season, and I'm not in the mood to give doom eternal much more opportunities.

Edited by yuri_kalashnikov : formatting text

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Second level in, I'm actually enjoying it, it's a huge improvement over D2016 so far (minor the stupid tutorials).
I'm glad that I have kept my expectations at floor level.

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7 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

as a shooter, it's decent. But the changes to the formula and to the overall game are just too jarring for me to really like it

Read/watch some non pre release reviews. Most people have the same opinion, including me. As game its okay, but its have strange gameplay decisions which makes it meh, entertainment for a couple of times and thats all.
 

7 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

Someone at Id is a 40k fanboy and was definitely inspired by the lore of that series and tried to bring it here which does not work at all.

Not only lore. Some monsters models are almost a direct copy of tabletop miniatures.

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7 hours ago, qdash said:

Doom Arcade is better name for this number of events, based on last game stats like it was with Fallout 76. It's sucks how they declined all "background" of this series, turned tables again and splitted fanbase by two parts.

 

It's can be OK - games are just games. But it was one of my favorite series. Thee biggest disappointment about Doom Eternal - I don't wanna wait for another 4 years for their next game. :( I hope it will be new Quake, because Doom is dead now(for me, in my opinion, IMHO, you know that it mean).

We always have a seemingly endless stream of great WADs to play.

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I sometimes feel the recent influx of new members to complain about DOOM Eternal are one and the same person rehashing the same complaints over and over, just reworded every single time. But that's just me.

 

Try Eternal DOOM for a different experience.

 

But i can deliver a sassy response like you expect, but ill give you a proper response.

 

9 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

The platforming is utterly ridiculous. This is Doom, not Super Mario. Why am i jumping from platform to platform, doing Tomb Raider flips off monkey bars to get to a shiny 1UP? Chuck E. Cheese tokens for suit upgrades? Floating, glowing weapon pickups straight out of 1996 instead of the cool pickup animations from D16 we got? What game am I even playing?

DOOM Eternal. The platforming has been mentioned prior, also by the Gman. It is to increase verticality and movement variety, first and formost.

 

Quote

And then there's the resource management. My god running out of ammo for my shotgun on the first level was downright infuriating. You're telling me I can't rip and tear how i want and have to watch a lengthy chainsaw animation 4-5 times per fight to farm ammo. Are you kidding me?

Eternal apparently is quite a lot harder on the higher difficult levels than Doom 2016 was. Limited ammo means that you are required to use weapons sparsingly, and more over, that you use all the weapons that are at your disposal. Cycle through the weapons, Think ahead. Doom Eternal definitely is a game that requires exactly that.

 

Quote

The story is equally convoluted. D16 was concise, focused and didn't bounce around from locales other than Mars and Hell. Here, you're in a different dimension/planet every level and it's incredibly jarring. On top of that, there are entire textlogs you have to read if you want to understand what happened between D16 and Eternal.

Are you sure you know what DOOM Eternal's backdrop is? Because judging by the fact you criticize this, i have to say you don't. There is a reason why you go to these different places. This is not rocket level big brain logic, this is something that was already known way beforehand.

Quote

And the absurd amount of lore that was added to this game is so incredibly dumb. Someone at Id is a 40k fanboy and was definitely inspired by the lore of that series and tried to bring it here which does not work at all. I don't care about the Makyrs, the Argenta, Urdak, etc.

The Lore is optional for folks that want to know every aspect of DOOM. Great that you don't care about that. Silly point to complain over.

Quote

I really wanted to like this game, and as a shooter, it's decent. But the changes to the formula and to the overall game are just too jarring for me to really like it as a Doom game. Jarring interruptive cutscenes and tutorials, abhorrent ammo caps, ridiculous platforming and a story that reads like a coked-up fan fiction gone bad just really detract from an otherwise decent Doom game. Really hope Id do not go this arcadey way for the next installment. 

So having now gone over your post, your complaints are:

  • The platforming. Is a legit point of contention, but has been explained prior why this is in.
  • Resource management. Again, explained prior. Eternal never was promoted as an easier title than 2016, in fact, it was seen as harder from the get go.
  • Story complaints. Sorry, this is a you problem more than its the game's problem. If you paid any interest to Eternal prior to release, you would know this.
  • Lore complaints: Its optional. You don't have to wade through all the textlogs to play the game.

Conclusion:

The vast majority of your complaints rely on the absence of knowledge on Eternal prior to buying the game, which is not perse the game's fault, but okay, i can get behind that. The story and lore complaints though are either obvious or rather nitpicky to strengthen your argument. Why Doom Slayer goes to different worlds was rather known for a long time.

 

All in all, without being biased i feel your points of contention are mediocre at best and at worst really poorly communicated. There is something to be said of the increased difficulty, or the increased reliance on platforming, but half of your post is spent complaining about story and lore.

 

Thus, i feel you went into DOOM Eternal with the wrong perception and expectations. Sucks that because of it, the game leaves a sour taste in your mouth and it might not be for you, but there you go.

 

7 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

OP, shush, you'll get us all crucified with remarks like that! They've already nailed me to the cross over saying the same thing! And for loving Doom 3, too! It's a capital crime over here!

 

Its only a capital crime if the quality of argumentation is poor in general. One can perfectly dislike Eternal or Doom 3 or even Doom95 - But if you can't provide a proper basis to fall back on, yes, that will get challenged.

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I'm only a couple hours into the game so far, but the more I've played the less I want to keep playing.

 

I want to love it, but it's not the game was really hoping it would be so far, and I don't feel like that's going to change much later in the game.

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Well, they killed doom when they stopped making good maps and thinking about good monster behavior design. Shooting stuff is cool, but you gotta admit that there were a lot of quite moments in original games that paced that "brutality" and that's where Romero comes in. He showed us how to make maps and why this is important and i'm not saying that there's no one outside that period of time that can do good maps. You can find a ton of custom wads with better design then original 3 episodes, but doom 2016 and eternal feels like their levels were shit out by Oblige generator with a little bit of afterwards polish. New game design is just lazy: instead of putting us trough pre-designed situations where every hp and bullet count they make a system where there no need to worry about hp, cause you can just punch red glowing mob, or bullets, cause you can wipe out that 'ol chainsaw. Every encounter feels the same, especially doesn't help that color pallet is pretty dull compared to ultimate/ doom 2, which is weird considering how many time has past. just think about blue fire, nothing on this level of contrast or eye catching in new games. 

So in the end we got a skin of an old game stretched to fit new idea. Some may find this cool, but pls don't call this "OLD-SCHOOL", nothing here's old-school, if only we're talking about 2005 looking graphics. I genuinely hate these games, they ruined map obsession with good game design and showed us that crowds can just ignore criticism even on the internet and it doesn't have to be a real life issues.

So yeah, these games are trash, here's better game utilizing the same gameplay loop worth your supporting https://store.steampowered.com/app/422970/Devil_Daggers/

 

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Nope, I wasn't disappointed with Doom Eternal because I was already disappointed with Doom 2016 and this game simply builds on top of that. I knew exactly what to expect going in. And the game improved on that formula nearly every way. And I was satisfied to what I was getting. The gripes I had with Doom 2016 are still there, but I liked what Doom Eternal did and I enjoyed it as a great game. It still won't be my best Doom experience but there's lot to enjoy there. The only thing that soured my experience in the slightest were the things I already hated about the reboot series and the horrible design of the platformer puzzles. Not the platforming itself, which was nice. But the way the puzzles flowed. There were constantly times throughout the game were I was left stuck because there was no intuitive way to know where you were going. The way to progress in the level was so hidden in the detailed architecture with no obvious hints that I had to check Youtube walkthroughs on how to progress. Other than that, I liked it very much. Now, back to mapping...

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