Story/cliffhanger takeaways from Doom Eternal

[Xfing]

So yeah, to summarize what we find out in the campaign (feel free to add on top of it if I missed something): 

- Samuel Hayden is likely the Hooded Figure/rogue Maykr "Seraphim", who empowered Doomguy in the past - as confirmed by him saying the exact same line as in 2016 when giving Doomguy the first Argent cell. Doomguy may have remembered these words, which made him trust them and take the argent orb. When you enter Urdak in the game, the Seraphim is welcomed as well by a disembodied voice.

- Unlike most Maykrs, he was able to act independently of the will of the Khan Maykr somehow, and even against her interests. This does indeed make him "Satan" or "Lucifer", insofar as he was the only "angel" with the agency to disobey the heavenly top brass. He mentions more than once that "with different leadership", the atrocities you have to deal with during the game wouldn't have happened, meaning that he probably has his own ideas for ruling Urdak.
 
- Vega mentions that he may have been the Father. That would lend credence to the hypothesis that Hayden took Vega with him when he left Urdak, and because of that no Khan Maykr could be created for all that time. Vega has been left in Urdak this time, possibly enabling Hayden to enact his agenda for the place in the future.

- A direct timeline is established that would make canon at the very least TUD, D2 and D64, turning both 2016 and Eternal into stealth sequels to those. That's actually pretty cool, since in addition to tying the series together it accomplishes accomplishes more thigns as well: lifts the admittedly very good Doom 64 from "spinoff" to proper sequel status, makes no mention of the underwhelming and hard-rebooty Doom 3 or the story-wise contradictory Final Doom megawads.

- The Khan Maykr mentions upon dying that Doomguy "broke the holy seal of Urdak", implying that by killing her he may have led to some bad things happening - probably the catalyst for events of the next game. 

Soo what'd I miss?

[Duke of Pathoris]

I think you are spot on in all of those statements. It still raises more questions about Hayden like:

• Why was he in human form? Was he actually or was it a lie?
• Why did he choose that robotic form instead of staying as a makyr?

But yes, I would say he is Seraphim and Vega is the father.

[Kristian Nebula]

29 minutes ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

I think you are spot on in all of those statements. It still raises more questions about Hayden like:

• Why was he in human form? Was he actually or was it a lie?
• Why did he choose that robotic form instead of staying as a makyr?

But yes, I would say he is Seraphim and Vega is the father.

 

I suppose he hid himself (his consciousness essence) into the robot when the real Samuel Hayden died of cancer and posed as him afterwards. He would have the skill to impersonate the real Hayden that way, and probably as a more evolved state of consciousness entity (possibly telepathic and nearly all-knowing), absorbing the personality of a human wouldn't necessarily be a problem by reading the information of the personality leftovers of Hayden from the quantum field into which it dissolved back into when its human body died.  

[Duke of Pathoris]

10 minutes ago, Kristian Nebula said:

 

I suppose he hid himself (his consciousness essence) into the robot when the real Samuel Hayden died of cancer and posed as him afterwards. He would have the skill to impersonate the real Hayden that way, and probably as a more evolved state of consciousness entity (possibly telepathic and nearly all-knowing), absorbing the personality of a human wouldn't necessarily be a problem by reading the information of the personality leftovers of Hayden from the quantum field into which it dissolved back into when its human body died.  

Perhaps Samuel Hayden never had cancer. Perhaps a lot of this was a coverup.

If he is impersonating the original Hayden, it's possible the original was intent on exploiting Argent energy but the angel was actively trying to thwart it. If he is the original, it is possible he was going along with Urdak's plot.

[AtimZarr1]

6 hours ago, Xfing said:

This does indeed make him "Satan" or "Lucifer", insofar as he was the only "angel" with the agency to disobey the heavenly top brass.

 

Interestingly, this would lend credence to the "S. Hayden = Satan" theory true

 

6 hours ago, Xfing said:

Vega mentions that he may have been the Father.

 

VEGA's Codex entry in 2016 hinted that he may have been developed using technology found close to the Argent Fracture, so he could definitely be related to the Maykrs. My first thought when I read about "The Father" entity, I figured it was Doom's stand-in for God. If VEGA was based on a God-like "Father", it could've been implied in 2016 when one of his Codex entries mentioned that VEGA was "watching" everyone or "monitoring" their thoughts, like a God would do.

 

6 hours ago, Xfing said:

story-wise contradictory Final Doom megawads.

 

What was contradictory about Final Doom's story? You can see what appears to be demonic spaceships in the sky on the Cultist Base, which could be

acknowledging Final Doom.

 

6 hours ago, Xfing said:

The Khan Maykr mentions upon dying that Doomguy "broke the holy seal of Urdak", implying that by killing her he may have led to some bad things happening - probably the catalyst for events of the next game. 

 

There was also a mysterious voice that cried "Noooo" when Khan Maykr died. Could maybe be a dark lord in Hell upset that they won't be able to invade new worlds without Urdak's help anymore?

[thewormofautumn]

There is a lot of wordplay in DOOM Eternal.

e.g. Khan Makyr = Unmaker

S.Hayden = Shaitan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaitan)… or Satan

 

So I like the idea of Samuel being a fallen angel.

He's not to be trusted.

 

That said, I still believe that the game exists in a multiverse. There's no way D1 and D2 could have happened only for it to happen again less than 100 years later and no one notices or says anything.

 

 

[Tony_Danza_the_boss]

I really hope Id releases a DLC that tells us what happened between D16 and Eternal. Am I the only one floored by how this was left out? I want to see exactly where Hayden teleported the Slayer at the end of the game and just how the events of Eternal got started

[Deleted_Account]

In the Urdak mission who was that giant alien creature submerged in the liquid? Is that the voice who screamed NOOOOOO?

[Novaseer]

2 hours ago, GaiusJuliusCaesar said:

There is one thing that is yet to be addressed: the Khans reincarnate every 10k years, and in the codex entries, it is said that the 'theft' of Father has prevented this process, giving the current Khan an indefinite reign,

meaning that the 'theft' had to have happened at the very least 10k years ago, if not way more, long enough for whatever purpose the reincarnation served to be so busted that the Maykrs had to make a deal with hell so that they can collect enough Argent energy to at the very least stop whatever it is that the reincarnation process was meant to prevent.

 

This doesn't just throw a spanner in the cogs, it throws the whole toolkit, since this fudges the timeline so much; at the very least it means that if the theory that Hayden is the Seraph (Singular, as seraphim is the plural form), then he must be the hide and seek champion, as he had to 'steal' Father and remain undetected for quite the while, but this adds more complications to the mix, and makes the timeline nonsensical.

If anything, the theft of the Father preventing new Kahns means the events are less than 10k years ago. The current Kahn may have been nearing the end of her ruling cycle, with just a few hundred or thousand years left, which would also explain why she fears the Transfiguration (which, as I understand it, is the Maykrs being sacrificed into the soul data of Urdak's Singularity, a process that probably happens shortly after the 10k year mark to explain why that particular length of time as a reigning Kahn) so much, and wouldn't bugger the timeline as much as what you suggest.

[Tony_Danza_the_boss]

On 3/24/2020 at 4:17 PM, User Name said:

In the Urdak mission who was that giant alien creature submerged in the liquid? Is that the voice who screamed NOOOOOO?

 

Believe that was a Makyr that had gone through the Transfiguration. 

[Chaddyboy]

So I was playing through Urdak again today, and I noticed this decoration who looks very similar to Hayden for the first time. Don't know if it's been mentioned before.

[TheRedTide]

On 3/24/2020 at 8:29 PM, GaiusJuliusCaesar said:

There is one thing that is yet to be addressed: the Khans reincarnate every 10k years, and in the codex entries, it is said that the 'theft' of Father has prevented this process, giving the current Khan an indefinite reign,

meaning that the 'theft' had to have happened at the very least 10k years ago, if not way more, long enough for whatever purpose the reincarnation served to be so busted that the Maykrs had to make a deal with hell so that they can collect enough Argent energy to at the very least stop whatever it is that the reincarnation process was meant to prevent.

 

This doesn't just throw a spanner in the cogs, it throws the whole toolkit, since this fudges the timeline so much; at the very least it means that if the theory that Hayden is the Seraph (Singular, as seraphim is the plural form), then he must be the hide and seek champion, as he had to 'steal' Father and remain undetected for quite the while, but this adds more complications to the mix, and makes the timeline nonsensical.

One of the Codex tells us that Samur went missing sometime after subjecting the Doomguy through that ritual in the Divinity Machine. What if he didn't simply go missing, but instead was killed by the Khan Maykr and reincarnated much later as Samuel Hayden?

[Deleted_Account]

2 minutes ago, TheRedTide said:

One of the Codex tells us that Samur went missing sometime after subjecting the Doomguy through that ritual in the Divinity Machine. What if he didn't simply go missing, but instead was killed by the Khan Maykr and reincarnated much later as Samuel Hayden?

I think this is what happened as well.

[herculesdesouza]

 

sorry for my english, at this point the engineer or something like that can't access the cortex of dr. S. Hayden because the code is alien.

[dewmguy]

11 hours ago, herculesdesouza said:

 

sorry for my english, at this point the engineer or something like that can't access the cortex of dr. S. Hayden because the code is alien.

 

Yes. And when connected to the fortress, vega says that Sam is taking over because of the similarity of architecture.

It's also worth mentioning that Samuel Hayden requested his cortex and frontal lobe to stay intact while undergoing the cyberisation process

[dewmguy]

The mysterious voice after khan makyr's death also sounds a lot like the glitched out voice vega makes while asking "Am I the Father?"

[Bauul]

On 3/24/2020 at 6:37 PM, Novaseer said:

If anything, the theft of the Father preventing new Kahns means the events are less than 10k years ago.

 

There's a codex entry in the Doom Hunter level that talks about the ancient Sentinel outpost it was built on being "millennia old", and goes on to talk about the ancient Doom Hunters fighting the Night Sentinels and the Doom Slayer at the outpost. So I agree that it puts the dates of Hell's invasion of the Sentinel empire comfortably in the thousands years before the events of the game.

 

On 3/24/2020 at 2:52 PM, AtimZarr1 said:

There was also a mysterious voice that cried "Noooo" when Khan Maykr died. Could maybe be a dark lord in Hell upset that they won't be able to invade new worlds without Urdak's help anymore?

 

We've met the mysterious disembodied deep voice in Doom 2016 too. It likely is some kind of "Hell god", who's none too happy with Doomguy over the last few thousand years.

 

On 3/24/2020 at 3:04 PM, thewormofautumn said:

That said, I still believe that the game exists in a multiverse. There's no way D1 and D2 could have happened only for it to happen again less than 100 years later and no one notices or says anything.

 

I think I may have replied to this on a different thread, but Doomguy finds himself in Sentinel Prime thousands of years before the events of the game. So either there's time travel involved, or it's a multiverse (more likely), as there's thousands of years between the events of D1/D2/D64 and Doom 2016.

[Taurus Daggerknight]

On 3/24/2020 at 6:17 PM, User Name said:

In the Urdak mission who was that giant alien creature submerged in the liquid? Is that the voice who screamed NOOOOOO?

 

So I actually thought the thing in the liquid looked suspiciously like a Wraith, like the ones we find in Hell in 2016...

 

EDIT: In fact..doesn't Samar Mayker kind of have their lower body half too? Could he be a Wraith that defected? 

[Doom64hunter]

On 3/25/2020 at 12:17 AM, User Name said:

In the Urdak mission who was that giant alien creature submerged in the liquid? Is that the voice who screamed NOOOOOO?

That was another Khan Maykr. This becomes obvious when you beat the boss, she looks exactly the same with the armor removed.

[Kristian Nebula]

1 hour ago, Doom64hunter said:

That was another Khan Maykr. This becomes obvious when you beat the boss, she looks exactly the same with the armor removed.

 

Yeah, I think it must have been the next-in-line Khan Maykr that newer got completed after the Father (VEGA) disappeared. :)

[thewormofautumn]

On 3/30/2020 at 5:47 AM, Doom64hunter said:

That was another Khan Maykr. This becomes obvious when you beat the boss, she looks exactly the same with the armor removed.

Not exactly, no. Plus there is a massive size difference. The one in the water is a lot bigger than the Khan. Yes the Khan is big, the creature in the water is bigger.

[thewormofautumn]

On 3/30/2020 at 1:54 AM, dewmguy said:

sounds a lot like the glitched out voice vega makes while asking "Am I the Father?"

Interesting. I will have to replay the game and have another listen. 

[Deleted_Account]

 

[TheRedTide]

On 3/29/2020 at 12:20 AM, herculesdesouza said:

 

sorry for my english, at this point the engineer or something like that can't access the cortex of dr. S. Hayden because the code is alien.

Yes, the technician says the architecture is too complex for human technology. Apparently Samuel Hayden was the only that actually designed it. But what if Samuel Hayden's cancer was all a sham? What if he was Samur all along and he specifically built this body and transfered his mind to it because an artificial construct of Maykr origin and complexity was the only thing that could survive the Hellish corruption that eventually claimed Olivia Pierce's mind?

 

EDIT: did we leave VEGA back in Urdak?

[AtimZarr1]

3 hours ago, TheRedTide said:

EDIT: did we leave VEGA back in Urdak?

 

Yes.

 

It seems these penultimate levels aren't ending nicely for VEGA in either games.

[Mr. Impso]

ok this is going to be a little off-topic from everything else, but...
Is the icon of sin really dead? cause when you're traveling through Taras Nabal and retrieve the handle of your crucible, Samuel Hayden says that if you were to remove it all the way, the titan would rise again, and when you do remove the hilt, the titan does twitch and glow, suggesting that the crucibles don't outright kill demon titans, only put them in some kind of stasis. 
that being said, could we be facing a revamped Icon of sin in the next game? perhaps one bolstered with mayker energy to make him more powerful and give him new tricks?

[TheRedTide]

8 hours ago, Mr. Impso said:

ok this is going to be a little off-topic from everything else, but...
Is the icon of sin really dead? cause when you're traveling through Taras Nabal and retrieve the handle of your crucible, Samuel Hayden says that if you were to remove it all the way, the titan would rise again, and when you do remove the hilt, the titan does twitch and glow, suggesting that the crucibles don't outright kill demon titans, only put them in some kind of stasis. 
that being said, could we be facing a revamped Icon of sin in the next game? perhaps one bolstered with mayker energy to make him more powerful and give him new tricks?

I was wondering that myself too.

[Hunting4r2d2]

17 hours ago, Mr. Impso said:

ok this is going to be a little off-topic from everything else, but...
Is the icon of sin really dead? cause when you're traveling through Taras Nabal and retrieve the handle of your crucible, Samuel Hayden says that if you were to remove it all the way, the titan would rise again, and when you do remove the hilt, the titan does twitch and glow, suggesting that the crucibles don't outright kill demon titans, only put them in some kind of stasis. 
that being said, could we be facing a revamped Icon of sin in the next game? perhaps one bolstered with mayker energy to make him more powerful and give him new tricks?

That makes me wonder how the slayer killed that one Titan in Hell.

[Sitting on a cornflake]

Someone on Reddit (I think) pointed out that the ending credits to the game credits someone as the voice of the "Dark Lord" but does not credit anyone as the "Mysterious voice."  

[Chaddyboy]

15 hours ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

That makes me wonder how the slayer killed that one Titan in Hell.

 

Since the Khan Makyr can only be killed in Urdak, maybe that's the same for Titans in Hell. A case of "The crucible basically just immobilizes them, killing them in Hell is permanent" kind of deal.