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Buckshot

DOOM Eternal is a perfectly good case for a "Heretic" prequel/crossover

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Posted (edited)

As I continue playing through Eternal, I can't help but to notice a heavy emphasis of Heretic/Hexen throughout the game. It almost at points seems like lore, levels and even characters/items/weapons are acting as either inspired by or acting as a "spiritual successor" to them.

I admit, I badly wanted the lore to crossover during the events of Eternal, and in my head and in some of my own fan fiction I connected all the dots to make it work (It's not hard; the lore of each series fits together pretty well). Of course, on a bigger scale, I've always wanted to see a multiverse (even if subtle) of id titles, and on that note Eternal does subliminally deliver some Quake love with Slipgates and common easter-eggs and references from past games.

However.... there in is the supposed the problem; Heretic isn't a id title despite being a collaboration of tech and designers with Raven. And that's always been how it's explained to me in the past during occasional inquiry around the web and at Quakecon that it's not owned by ID as a intellectual property, but rather Raven. Though I never accepted that answer as a show-stopper as they (id software) were able to get DOOM 64 out of IP-hell and turn it over to Nightdive (which many thought to be a impossible feat, even Nightdive themselves early on). And there's been much IP by id done by other studios (Wolfenstein, Quake. RAGE franchise games). And as a past alliance with Raven, and all these studios they license with today, I don't see why it'd be such an issue.

I know everyone's probably wondering what their "next big thing is" now that Eternal is released. I see a bit of rally for a 'Quake' campaign reboot/remake/sequel of sorts across the web, but that's been a exhausted request after every release they've done for a while now.

But what I want to really see is id software do their spin on Heretic. And with how will it could act as a direct or spiritual prequel with a mashup of it's own lore and Eternal's myth arc, I think it would be fantastic and pretty damn interesting. It's just been a really long time since we've had a dark fantasy FPS of the sorts, and now is never a better time.

What are your thoughts? Anything else you'd rather see?

 

Edited by Buckshot

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I would love a new version of Heretic/Hexen, i would like them to unite all franchises with some kind of multiverse crap.
Heretic/Hexen, Commander Keen, Wolfenstein, Quake and Doom. Is a dumb idea sure, but as fan service it could be funny.

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I don't wanna see Heretic/HeXeN on same mechanics with fucking events and same colorful and positive art design. It's bullshit.

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Posted (edited)

I wish iD would make a Heretic Remake in the same vain as Eternal just to give people who hate the NuDoom Aneurysm. 

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4 hours ago, Buckshot said:

I know everyone's probably wondering what their "next big thing is" now that Eternal is released. I see a bit of rally for a 'Quake' campaign reboot/remake/sequel of sorts across the web, but that's been a exhausted request after every release they've done for a while now.

 

It seems like the most logical step now. When Doom 2016 ended on a cliffhanger, it was logical to make a sequel that continued the story and expanded on the ideas of D2016.

 

But now Doom Eternal has concluded the story and added so much stuff already that it might impossible to add more to it. Thus I don't see a reason for a third Doom game. Also I don't see a reason for a Rage 3 (as Rage 2 was not as successful AFAIK). A "Quake 1" sequel seems like the best bet.

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Doom 2016 had plenty of material for a Quake 2 remake (and even some Wolfenstein 3d and Quake 1 elements), Doom Eternal just continues the trend with still more Quake 2 and Quake 1 elements, now mixed in with some Heretic/Hexen stuff.

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We need a cyberdemon with a tornado cannon.

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5 hours ago, qdash said:

I don't wanna see Heretic/HeXeN on same mechanics with fucking events and same colorful and positive art design. It's bullshit.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

 

Heretic is a super-colorful game. Hexen is all muddy browns and swampy greens, but Heretic's art design is full of well-contrasted colors.

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It's just Heretic (and to a lesser extent, Hexen) has always felt like a true id software game (at least to me). It was formed and existed at a time where studios collaborated on projects via resources, engine tech and even development team themselves. With all the IP-controversy over the years over who owns what when it comes to the series between Zenimax/Activision & id/raven it just feels like it's only being left behind because of that alone. Need to work out those differences so we can have more from the series.

I'll be happy with whatever they come up with next, even if it's something entirely new. We've had our fill of DOOM/Wolfenstein games as of recent, and Quake to only the multiplayer extent (not counting Quake 4). Sure, I'm all for a Quake 1 story reboot, or even the Strogg story continuation. Can't go wrong with either of those options really.

But my fingers are crossed it's Heretic or a prequel story to the current DOOM series based on the lore myth-arc of a dark fantasy era.

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I kinda wish ZeniMax would buy Raven Software, it'd solve those IP issues by putting Id and Raven back under the same roof. Besides they already bought Human Head which was mostly former Raven employees.

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Make Raven Software great again. I'm hoping they get reunited at some point, I wonder if ZeniMax acquiring HH is a sign of things to come.

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Raven pretty much spent the entire last decade on call of duty. They better stay away from a new heretic lol.

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31 minutes ago, seed said:

Make Raven Software great again. I'm hoping they get reunited at some point, I wonder if ZeniMax acquiring HH is a sign of things to come.

 

 

Even if they didn't and just acquired all rights to it, they have all the talent of Bethesda itself if they needed to tap on extra resources for design in a epic dark fantasy/mideval-era style game like Heretic.

 

I mean, after all... Elder Scrolls. They more than excel at that sort of thing.

 

That's not saying the current id team isn't geared for handling such a style of a game. They clearly are just judging by the design and atmosphere of DOOM Eternal's darker fantasy world elements, characters and lore. It was damn impressive. But to have resources behind something like Elder scrolls all under the same roof... They could make some serious magic.

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Id doing something along the lines of Heretic next would be neat, but I think if they do it it should be a somewhat different game. Like, a bit slower, a bit more RPG-is. But preferably something more focused than The Elder Scrolls games tend to be.

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I would like a Hexen 3 honestly, to improve and expand on their foundation. This time with better combat, bigger arsenal and bestiary, and much better puzzles. Hexen did okay but the puzzles in Hexen 2 were a fucking nightmare, as cool as that game was otherwise...

 

I feel that a Heretic reboot would feel like Doom but in a medieval setting once more, hence why I'd much rather have a Hexen sequel instead. It gives more creative freedom to toy around than Heretic. And honestly, I just don't think Heretic was THAT good to warrant a reboot, so I'll admit that I'm biased here.

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I'd love to see Heretic and Hexen directly tied to Doom, so they can take gameplay and design elements, like they already took Quake elements.

But much like making a new Quake, making a new Heretic/Hexen would have the problem of whatever could be a new game already being possible in a new Doom, which also relates to the idea of how Heretic and Quake feel like Doom spin-offs.

 

Eternal does show dark fantasy elements, but they also have things like energy swords with written symbols and "Sentinel tech" that i'm not sure would make sense in the Serpent Rider world.

I once thought of a Hexen-like Doom thing where Crash and Phobos were playable characters and had unique weapons taken from 2016's MP and the game would feel like the mod Tei Tenda Incident or something in that vain.

 

10 hours ago, Pegg said:

We need a cyberdemon with a tornado cannon.

I hope in the future DLC's and such, they go hard on enemy variety, whether or not it'd even mean taking notes from those random posts i made.

People complain about the Marauder but i want them to go crazier and all, with one idea being the tornado's spinning and levitating the player.

 

I also want to see exploration and puzzles with Hexen-like elements and a Dark Claw/Reaper/Unmaker-like weapon that functions like the Wraithverge.

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Posted (edited)

Are you sure that Heretic and Hexen are as well remembered to be financially worth reviving? I love them, but by popularity they seem pretty obscure to me.

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^ Ditto to that, basically my point. It is true that in the recent years there's been a revival of interest in the series, but it pales compared to Doom or Quake, which makes a potential reboot highly questionable.

 

But then again, similar less popular titles also had successful reboots - Shadow Warrior is the best example here.

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Posted (edited)

The problem with crossovers is that it limits every involved stories in term of liberties with the writing, "lores" could clash.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, printz said:

Are you sure that Heretic and Hexen are as well remembered to be financially worth reviving? I love them, but by popularity they seem pretty obscure to me.


I remember them. I'm certain plenty others do, too. They may be not as broadly discussed as Quake and DOOM, but they were still equally fantastic games.


I would chalk it up as being akin to Wolfenstein 3D level of popularity, and Wolfenstein has done well in revivals throughout the years. Shadow Warrior is also another example as already mentioned. 


And it seems like Dark Fantasy & Myth/Lore heavy games are all the rage these days. If there's anyone who can do it and truly make it shine and bring it mainstream, id certainly can.

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If anyone is to take a stab at a Heretic/ Hexen game, I want it to be Arkane Studios. Why? 

 

DARK MESSIAH OF MIGHT AND MAGIC.

 

That game, and the Dishonored titles, had excellent melee combat. Sure, it had balance issues, but it worked and was engaging. The magic and physics were also neat, as were most of the environments. If they took  a stab (ha!) at Heretic/ Hexen, I can only imagine great things coming. 

 

So yeah.... I do wish Bethesda would buy the IP. And yes, I too think it would work great if it were tied into the greater multiverse shared between Wolfenstien and Doom. 

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I too think Heretic is really colorful and don't know what some of you are talking about. Since i've been gaming more on consoles lately i think it would be nice to have a port of Heretic and Hexen on console. Hell, even Quake would be awesome to play on consoles now that they are more than capable power wise. I do remember playing it on Dreamcast, an unofficial port of course ;) I mean, Xbox 360 had Quake II, even if it was just a bonus included with Quake 4.

 

Now I know that this won't happen though thanks to copyrights and what not. Also this isn't exactly the right time i guess as a new Quake game isn't coming out as far as i know and that's when you would tend to port the old ones to consoles and what not. Also a newer generation of consoles are coming out so...yeah. Bad timing? No demand? Copyrights? All of the above?

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They could do a Doom prequel taking place during the Iron Age of Argent D'Nur when the Argent were first beginning to experiment with Argent magick.

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