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MassiveEdgelord

How did you guys learn the ropes of Doom Builder 2?

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Title. I'm trying to make my first "beginner" map on Doom Builder 2 and it all seems complicated, even with tutorials. How did you guys learn to understand it all? Any advice for a newbie like me?

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My learning process was as follows:

 

- Got interested in Doom mapping.

- Tried GzDoom Builder which immediately crashed.

- Tried Doom Builder X.

- Couldn't figure out how to make a fucking door.

- Give up.

 

But... Now heere's exactly where the magic happened. Mapping for Doom was so intriguing to me that I watched some mapping streams, some tutorials, downloaded a Doom Builder Manual thing and generally just watched a ton of videos and read a ton of material.

 

- Then, tried GzDoom Builder Bugfix which did not crash (Download Ultimate Doom Builder now instead)

- Followed along a very simple tutorial on how to make doors.

- Played around with the Editor a bit and just tried to make "1 functioning map with at least 3 rooms and a door".

- Meanwhile still reading up and watching a ton of Doom related stuff.

- Profit.

 

Important is to not give up. It can seem overwhelming at first, especially with all the new lingo, but as long as you keep "fiddling around" with the builder and watch tutorials or talk to people, you'll get the hang of it eventually. Important is, that you try to start "small" before getting to work on your incredibly ambitious megaWAD.

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For me it was watching tutorials and just practicing the procedures, sometimes not even making a map, just practicing making doors, switches etc. GZDooMBuilder also has more first-time-user-friendly tools, like the door creator tool.

 

Just keep practicing and practice consistently, could be as little as 30 mins a day, dont get yourself overworked or worried about it either. Worrying doesnt help

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Posted (edited)

Read as much as you can about the DOOM environment.

Good tutorials are The Unofficial WAD Designers' Handbook, Release 2.1 which was written way back in the dark ages, and  Doom Builder: An Illustrated Guide which was written with the original Doombuilder (Doombuilder not Doombuilder2) in mind. Since then much has changed, but it is still valid for the basic functionality of even the latest iteration of the editor, which is Ultimate Doom Builder.

 

Also ... 

and learn about source ports and mapping formats.

Edited by Kappes Buur

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Posted (edited)

You know what's funny I was just thinking about how confusing making maps in doom when I first started making them years ago. I just got back into it after a couple years and It took me a bit to remember everything. Can you articulate any concepts that you're having difficulty with? To me one of the most difficult concepts was just understanding how to make a room and making sure I didn't screw up sectors. In the beginnings it's really easy to make mistakes with sectors. Usually people put down line defs without realizing how easy it is to mess them up when you don't know exactly how they work.

 

Here are some general rules for doom 2 objects

things about the doom engine

 

the doom engine needs to know exactly what to do.

the doom engine (game) needs to be told what to do via triggers and events

the engine in order to build the map so you can play, needs to have closed sectors (basic description) and a player start.

maps have an inside space and outside space. not much happens in outside space when you use noclip you can go into the outside space. The game is played in the inside space.

 

Sectors

1. have to be closed shape polygon. "water tight"

2. are defined by line defs

3. can have tags. tags are basically a unique number that's used by triggers (stuff that start different actions or events)

4. have light values

5. can have sector properties,things like do damage, flicker light etc.

6. more than one shape can be the same sector. when they are the same sector they have the same properties, tags, heights and texture.

7. the game keeps track of things like what light values and heights of nearby sectors are for events.

8. sectors can have a ceiling and a floor. ceilings and floors can be raised or lowered independently.

9. the game can tell sectors to move up and down.

 

Line defs

1. line defs have two sides and they are a line. they also have points (points don't do too much)

3. line defs have a middle texture, upper and lower texture. textures are graphics that get put onto line defs. textures always cover the entire line def.

4. you can pass through line defs or they can be unpassable

5. most of the time the middle texture is not used, this is because the middle texture is where you the player walks through in a line def. when the middle texture is used is when there is outside space on the other side of the linedef. Middle texture can also be used for things like fences. the line def can have a middle texture set even if inside space is on each side. what will happen is that it will look lke the texture is just plastered there kind of like when you look at a tree in the game except it doesn't rotate. you'll be able to pass through this texture unless you choose the lindef to be unpassable 

6. line defs in editors have a little line in the middle. you can think of this like a sensor. when they player moves across this sensor or presses on the sensor with the use botton it triggers

7. line defs can trigger actions

8. line defs have tags these tags are used to tell sectors to take on the actions of a trigger.

9. you can have groups line defs inside a sector they don't have to be closed

10. Because line defs create sectors you can actually tell line defs which sector is on each side of the line. this can help you fix problems say if you have a sector that's messed up sometimes one of the reasons is because one line def is not pointing to the right sector. 

11. line defs are made by either drawing a line or breaking up a line def with points. when you put a point on a line def it splits into new ones.

Edited by Kaiser_Wilhelm2

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Posted (edited)

Chubzdoomer does great videos that are simple enough to follow and pick up straight away. I always wanted to make Doom maps but was intimidated and thought that you had to be a high-tech programmer or something. I can't write script to save my life. Chubz showed me that it was possible for a regular dude like me to make maps. Mapping is one of my greatest joys in life, hope you get to enjoy it as much as i do.

 

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17 hours ago, Kaiser_Wilhelm2 said:

You know what's funny I was just thinking about how confusing making maps in doom when I first started making them years ago. I just got back into it after a couple years and It took me a bit to remember everything. Can you articulate any concepts that you're having difficulty with? To me one of the most difficult concepts was just understanding how to make a room and making sure I didn't screw up sectors. In the beginnings it's really easy to make mistakes with sectors. Usually people put down line defs without realizing how easy it is to mess them up when you don't know exactly how they work.

 

Here are some general rules for doom 2 objects

things about the doom engine

 

the doom engine needs to know exactly what to do.

the doom engine (game) needs to be told what to do via triggers and events

the engine in order to build the map so you can play, needs to have closed sectors (basic description) and a player start.

maps have an inside space and outside space. not much happens in outside space when you use noclip you can go into the outside space. The game is played in the inside space.

 

Sectors

1. have to be closed shape polygon. "water tight"

2. are defined by line defs

3. can have tags. tags are basically a unique number that's used by triggers (stuff that start different actions or events)

4. have light values

5. can have sector properties,things like do damage, flicker light etc.

6. more than one shape can be the same sector. when they are the same sector they have the same properties, tags, heights and texture.

7. the game keeps track of things like what light values and heights of nearby sectors are for events.

8. sectors can have a ceiling and a floor. ceilings and floors can be raised or lowered independently.

9. the game can tell sectors to move up and down.

 

Line defs

1. line defs have two sides and they are a line. they also have points (points don't do too much)

3. line defs have a middle texture, upper and lower texture. textures are graphics that get put onto line defs. textures always cover the entire line def.

4. you can pass through line defs or they can be unpassable

5. most of the time the middle texture is not used, this is because the middle texture is where you the player walks through in a line def. when the middle texture is used is when there is outside space on the other side of the linedef. Middle texture can also be used for things like fences. the line def can have a middle texture set even if inside space is on each side. what will happen is that it will look lke the texture is just plastered there kind of like when you look at a tree in the game except it doesn't rotate. you'll be able to pass through this texture unless you choose the lindef to be unpassable 

6. line defs in editors have a little line in the middle. you can think of this like a sensor. when they player moves across this sensor or presses on the sensor with the use botton it triggers

7. line defs can trigger actions

8. line defs have tags these tags are used to tell sectors to take on the actions of a trigger.

9. you can have groups line defs inside a sector they don't have to be closed

10. Because line defs create sectors you can actually tell line defs which sector is on each side of the line. this can help you fix problems say if you have a sector that's messed up sometimes one of the reasons is because one line def is not pointing to the right sector. 

11. line defs are made by either drawing a line or breaking up a line def with points. when you put a point on a line def it splits into new ones.

Wow that complicated. I'm having trouble making doors. Like I know how to make a door spawn in my level but it doesn't open.

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Practice, practice practice. I've been at it for a little over a year now, and it's still pretty very difficult!
What I would suggest is to just build levels with features that interest you, while not exactly adhering to anything.

Also, play lots of custom levels. If you ever see anything cool, try to recreate it. It's super easy with Doom as you can pretty much open anyone else's creation, and learn from it. That's pretty much what I did to get where I am now!

There is seriously no better way to learn then to get in there and just do it yourself!

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Just constant working on it, even if it didn't mean of releasing something, it was the act of practicing it.

And majority of practice was on DB1 for the first 6 years since I had made an account here. DBX and DB64 are the ones I use for mapping, as they are where my released levels are for.

 

And here's my tips on doors why they tend to "fail"

1. Sectors near it (ceiling) may be too low, as doors rely on nearest sectors Ceiling level. Use the floor to ceiling height to what the doors height should be instead of lowering ceiling.

2. Not tagged properly. If Tagged 0, often will cause the entire level to act like the door. If you tag sector 5 in Sector mode, then in Identification for Linedef with "Door x option" has to be 5.

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I just got Doom Builder 2 and started trying stuff. Drawing lines, figuring out the controls, understanding the map sizes and spacial awareness. I already had experience making maps for Call of Duty 1 (using Radiant) so I knew the basics of level creation.

 

With time and practice, I had my first playable level. My earliest maps were complete shit but they worked. Over time you also learn what not to do. What works and what doesn't.

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Posted (edited)

@MassiveEdgelord The problem with your door is that its action linedefs are facing inwards (you can see this in DB by the ticks in the centre of a line).  Select them and flip them -- I think this is bound to 'f' by default.  

 

//Edit: actually, two problems with your door. The first is that the sector isn't closed -- all linedefs of your door except for the one on the left have at least one side that belongs to the sector on the left.  You can fix this quickly by switching to the make sector tool (bound to 'm' I think) and clicking on the door.

 

In general Doom Builder is pretty good at managing this sector reference stuff.  Try to always draw complete shapes (either by finishing drawing where you started or connecting to existing geometry). Drawing single lines and dragging them together can cause problems.

 

10 hours ago, Nevander said:

I just got Doom Builder 2 and started trying stuff. Drawing lines, figuring out the controls, understanding the map sizes and spacial awareness. I already had experience making maps for Call of Duty 1 (using Radiant) so I knew the basics of level creation.

 

With time and practice, I had my first playable level. My earliest maps were complete shit but they worked. Over time you also learn what not to do. What works and what doesn't.

I agree. Practice is the most important thing, with reference just to get you over the humps.

 

 Man, Radiant. That takes me back.

Edited by holaareola

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