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MassiveEdgelord

What are the biggest misconceptions regarding DOOM?

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56 minutes ago, Optimus said:

 

I am mostly annoyed how it's established that the only right way to play Doom is that you always have to move. But that's what I've started hearing since Doom 2016. Because these games I think now force you to move around, player is slower and struggles and enemies are faster and more clever. While a big thing of classic Doom was how fast the player was moving, however there are cases when I am playing where I lay back or on a high ledge and snipe enemies patiently from far away, or move slower and more cautiously in dark corridors, looking behind corners, pausing to look for secrets (certainly not always resembling the run around in arenas reimagined Doom 2016/Eternal). Now, because everyone is talking about the run and gun elements, somehow the new Doom francise had to force you to play only this way (and quite different and more cumbersome than classic Doom where you could move faster than the projectiles).

I won't argue against that. I personally always played the originals that way ever since I own them. But, it isn't the ONLY way to play indeed. I just prefer it that way. Happy to hear that you can have the fun your way as well.

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Very few people know the truth, it just so happens that I know someone who knows someone who knows someone else. The public were lead to believe that the idea and design of Doom came from the brilliant minds of Carmack and Romero etc. Actually, the idea was presented to Romero one night. While he was playing billiards, an elf climbed in his window and told him to get money from the Rockefeller Foundation for Doom. Perhaps Romero only saw elves or Satan in his mind, Doom still got built.

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I thought the Elf handed him a pool cue and called it "DOOM"? Maybe I'm getting my wires crossed here..

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4 hours ago, Optimus said:

Besides the obvious already mentioned (Doom being 2.5D, hitscanner being a bad thing for Doom, doom is just always Run and Gun, etc) one I noticed in 2-3 places don't know why, that Doom 2 removed the F5 low detail option (it didn't really).

4 hours ago, seed said:

 

I still don't understand where this originated from.

 

Perhaps from Doom 95 removing it?

 

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On 3/31/2020 at 5:20 AM, ValeriyPipick said:

The biggest misconception about Doom series that it is all about violence, gore and ''fun (if you catch my meaning)''. Sadly enough, this misconception leaded to creation of such games as DOOM 2016 and Doom Eternal.

Are you saying Doom 2016 is a bad game? 'cause I don't think so

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9 hours ago, Vesperas_ said:

 

The Mancubus isn't in Doom/Ultimate Doom. I'm not sure what your point is there.

 

Doom is defined in its manual: "The game play for Doom is quite simple. This is not a cumbersome role-playing game, but an action-orientated slug-a-thon. You don't need super-human reflexes to win - using your wits is JUST AS IMPORTANT. To escape Doom, you need both brains AND the killer instinct."

 

The new games are missing half of that original formula. The gameplay of Doom 2016 is basically Painkiller. Eternal is like an awkward love affair between Painkiller and Half-Life. They're fun in their own way for a playthrough once or twice but that's about it. Your mileage may vary. The point is, they're so different that they had might as well be called different things.

Bruh, the Mancubus is in Doom 2016 tf u saying

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14 hours ago, famicommander said:

That Doom 3 is a video game in the Doom series.

 

Common mistake, it's like that time my mother confused DC's The Flash with Flash Gordon.

said the salty hater 

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20 hours ago, seed said:

That classic Doom is 2.5D.

 

Considering that Doom has 3 axis (albeit the Z-axis is perhaps limited), I think it's more along the lines of "2.9D" rather than 2.5D. Use of sprites for decorations, weapons, and enemies doesn't count.

 

You are giving the z-axis too much credit. While actors have height, movement entirely takes place on a 2D plane, with some haphazard fudging to get the height in. I'd say that Doom is really a 2.5D engine. Build may qualify as 2.9D, on the other hand.

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He used the 2.9D term using quotation marks.

 

And no, Build doesn't count as a 2.9D engine. All it does is rendering. Actual Build games may not even take Z-axis into account properly.

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On 3/30/2020 at 11:30 PM, Chow Yun Thin said:

That Doom (and FPS in general) are murder simulators.

I dunno about other FPS, but ya gotta admit that with Brutal Doom, D2016, and DE, with their glory kill finishers and in DE's case; body parts flying off of demons; that anyone thinking "murder simulator" is gonna buy into the fact that Doom is NOT one.

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7 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I thought the Elf handed him a pool cue and called it "DOOM"? Maybe I'm getting my wires crossed here..

Ok. It was Tom Cruise that climbed in through Romeros window and told him about Doom. 

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5 hours ago, Cacodemon345 said:

He used the 2.9D term using quotation marks.

 

And no, Build doesn't count as a 2.9D engine. All it does is rendering. Actual Build games may not even take Z-axis into account properly.

 

The Build engine contains all the core functions for actor movement, collision detection and hitscan attacks, so it surely counts.

 

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Even modern games that have fully 3D environments have cases that treat the up/down axis specially compared to the other two. Arguing about whether Doom/DN3D is 2.5D or 2.9D or whatever is meaningless unless you want to come up with some sort of scoring system to quantity it.

 

The way the Build engine acheived room-over-room was pretty hacky too.

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7 minutes ago, Wagi said:

The way the Build engine acheived room-over-room was pretty hacky too.

 

It was purely hacks.

 

Only Build 2 does it "for real", and EDuke32/Raze/NBlood/GDX. TROR in EDuke32 originated from Build 2 afaik.

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On 3/31/2020 at 7:06 PM, jazzmaster9 said:

Why? because its not a carbon copy of the original with flashy graphics?

There is exploration, Fast paced Combat and elements of horror (gore horror).

 

25 years and no one is able, and will never be able, to define what Doom is. It's purely subjective.

 

Why? Because it is too far away from everything what defined Doom in the 90ies. Too much Jump n Run stuff, CoD like weapon upgrade stuff, which detracts from the core gameplay, too much Painkiller-like arena stuff. Plus all the more than questionable new lore.

 

Right, this is all subjective. I never said, that my opinion is objective. It is just that, an opinion. And for me, Doom 3 was completely disappointing, and i wasn't interested in 2016 or Eternal from the moment, i saw the first actual gameplay. You can like it, i do not. We have just completely different, but subjective opinions. That's it.

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One common misconception I hear - and that drives me insane every time I do - is that the new Doom soundtracks are "dubstep".

 

By definition, it's nowhere near that. The asshats calling it dubstep only label it that because they hate the synths and think that Doom is pure metal music-wise. Which isn't exactly true either. Case in point: E1M2, E1M3, E1M5, E2M2, E2M6, E3M7, MAP05, MAP18... I could go on and on.

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46 minutes ago, cybdmn said:

Too much Jump n Run stuff, CoD like weapon upgrade stuff, which detracts from the core gameplay

 

Was this part sarcasm? Because I'm having a bad time figuring out how some upgrades that improve the weapons and the Slayer's abilities "detract from the experience". COD did not invent weapon upgrades either...

 

39 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

is that the new Doom soundtracks are "dubstep".

 

...are people actually saying this though? I've heard A LOT of bullshit over the years regarding different music genres, but this would be a new one.

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Just now, seed said:

...are people actually saying this though? I've heard A LOT of bullshit over the years regarding different music genres, but this would be a new one.

 

They are, believe it or not.

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12 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

You are giving the z-axis too much credit. While actors have height, movement entirely takes place on a 2D plane, with some haphazard fudging to get the height in. I'd say that Doom is really a 2.5D engine. Build may qualify as 2.9D, on the other hand.

 

I don't get what you mean here. Isn't the things structure provided x,y,z iirc? Isn't it only the fact that there is simply gravity that sticks you to the ground most of the time? I don't think the engine is restricted to work in a 2D space. You can easily change the player code to add jump or fly without changing the engine. Heretic has free flight.

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1 hour ago, MFG38 said:

By definition, it's nowhere near that. The asshats calling it dubstep only label it that because they hate the synths and think that Doom is pure metal music-wise.

For real, a lot of so-called "metal heads" online haven't listened to anything harder or more progressive than Metallica and it shows.

 

12 hours ago, warman2012 said:

I dunno about other FPS, but ya gotta admit that with Brutal Doom, D2016, and DE, with their glory kill finishers and in DE's case; body parts flying off of demons; that anyone thinking "murder simulator" is gonna buy into the fact that Doom is NOT one. 

I think he means that it's not a "murder simulator" in that Doom doesn't incite actual violence the way a lot of boomer newscasters and politicians insisted it did.

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44 minutes ago, seed said:

Was this part sarcasm? Because I'm having a bad time figuring out how some upgrades that improve the weapons and the Slayer's abilities "detract from the experience". COD did not invent weapon upgrades either...

 

I was dead serious about that. One aspect of Doom was to strip the game down to the core, drop out everything which detracts from the action-oriented gameplay. Weapon upgrades are the opposite of that. The only thing which could considered a kind of an upgrade is the backpack, but then again, you just pick it up, and add the ability to carry more ammo for every weapon, no need to stop the game flow, to fiddle around with any kind of upgrade menu. Thats why i don't consider the after millenium releases as not Doom. They all overload the gameplay with stuff, which stops you from actually playing the game, the opposite of what id have done for the original concept of the game.

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2 hours ago, seed said:

Was this part sarcasm? Because I'm having a bad time figuring out how some upgrades that improve the weapons and the Slayer's abilities "detract from the experience". COD did not invent weapon upgrades either...

 

1 hour ago, cybdmn said:

 

I was dead serious about that. One aspect of Doom was to strip the game down to the core, drop out everything which detracts from the action-oriented gameplay. Weapon upgrades are the opposite of that. The only thing which could considered a kind of an upgrade is the backpack, but then again, you just pick it up, and add the ability to carry more ammo for every weapon, no need to stop the game flow, to fiddle around with any kind of upgrade menu. Thats why i don't consider the after millenium releases as not Doom. They all overload the gameplay with stuff, which stops you from actually playing the game, the opposite of what id have done for the original concept of the game.

 

Holy shit, you guys. Give it a rest. 

 

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2 hours ago, cybdmn said:

One aspect of Doom was to strip the game down to the core, drop out everything which detracts from the action-oriented gameplay.

Damn someone should go back in time and tell that to John Romero to stop him from putting keys and switches in levels, searching for those to progress definitely detracts from the action-oriented feel of the original, which was perfect in every way. Big /s obviously.

 

I'm tired of the "it's not Doom" conversation. You don't have to intellectualize or rationalize about how Doom and Doomy Ternal are "not Doom," you're allowed to just not like the games, and you're also allowed to not interject about how much you don't like them in every thread on the site. Encouraged, even.

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2 hours ago, cybdmn said:

 

I was dead serious about that. One aspect of Doom was to strip the game down to the core, drop out everything which detracts from the action-oriented gameplay. Weapon upgrades are the opposite of that. The only thing which could considered a kind of an upgrade is the backpack, but then again, you just pick it up, and add the ability to carry more ammo for every weapon, no need to stop the game flow, to fiddle around with any kind of upgrade menu. Thats why i don't consider the after millenium releases as not Doom. They all overload the gameplay with stuff, which stops you from actually playing the game, the opposite of what id have done for the original concept of the game.

 

So you're saying that Doom is a shmup game for you? Basically first person version of games like Raiden, SmashTV or Contra? That is also what classic Doom is for me but I also accept the new style of the more recent games in series as Doom because they have similar arcadey style as the classic games, just in the context of modern AAA videogame. If classic Doom was FPS-game version of SmashTV/Contra, then Doom Eternal is FPS-game version of God of War/Devil May Cry.

 

For me, the elements that made classic Doom special is still in the new Doom games and they make the new games just as special compared to other modern FPS-games as they did back in the day. Doom 3 was the biggest misstep but it made sense at the time. Doom 2016 suffered because of that, but Doom series is definitely on the right track with Doom Eternal. Game design must evolve with the times and what Doom Eternal is doing is actually pretty natural upgrade.

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I've heard "Mass Murder Simulator" thrown around a bit by media suits back in the day.  I like to think of it more as a self-defense simulator.

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