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instagib

So um...Quake?

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Quake is a great game, but it mostly relies on it's innovative engine and solid gameplay rather than innovating on both fronts. I do remember as a kid that quake was a huge deal it was all a lot of kids could think about. I have a lot more fun in doom, although I haven't made many maps in the Quake engine. I have made one released map for The source engine, which has a similar mapping style to quake.

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4 hours ago, seed said:

Quake 1 is best Quake.

 

I've only ever truly played the first 2, and although Quake 2 has a much better sense of progression, its combat and atmosphere is nowhere near as good as the original's. Its enemies are also far too bulet-spongey, the boss fights are underwhelming (I'll admit the original was even worse here, but better than bad =/= good), and the weapons weren't as satisfying to use or unique.

 

Had Quake 2 and the later games kept the Lovecraftian atmosphere, they would've probably been much better - they're good as they are, but the fact that the Lovecraftian stuff was thrown out the window immediately after the first game is a huge minus for me, but also what makes the original so special - because it's the only one in the series.

Mirrored my thoughts exactly.

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i just hate that the last 2 quake games are fucking multiplayer deathmatch, just make a fucking singleplayer game goddamnit!

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On 4/4/2020 at 9:26 AM, plums said:

I think Quake 4 does just about everything that Doom 3 does better than Doom 3, but it also has a lot of squad based combat and don't-let-this-guy-die missions which aren't really to my tastes. If it were all solo combat it would be hands down better than D3.

Yeah and that bloody drive-a-tank bit annoyed the shit out of me.

 

I resurrected it on my Alienware recently and, yes, the solo bits are excellent.

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18 hours ago, Master O said:

 

Especially true when using the BFG10k combined with Quad Damage and Invulnerability on Makron at the end.

 

Haha, yes I bitched him out with that combo last time I played it. 

 

I really like both Quake 1 and 2. I think strictly based on vanilla campaigns Quake 2 is better, but Quake 2's map community seems to be gone, like I couldn't find much custom content for it when I looked. Quake's on the other hand is insane and really takes it to another level.

 

Whilst it would be nice to see id revisit the style of the original Quake, the only issue is would they be willing to take the risk and make something weird, esoteric and LOvecraftian? Nu-Doom is fine for what it is but I'd want them to go the complete opposite direction of that if they revisit Quake, and unfortunately, playing it safe and making what worked before seems like they path they'd be more likely to take. And I think that approach would definitely wear out its welcome entirely if they tried to make a Rip & Tear Quake. 

 

 

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I wish Quake 1 would get the same love from id/Bethesda that classic Doom has been getting. A modern console port with add on support would be great.

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7 hours ago, hybridial said:

 

Haha, yes I bitched him out with that combo last time I played it.

 

 

In the 2nd expansion for Quake 2 "Ground Zero", the developers of that mission pack put in a nasty surprise if you enable Invulnerability and Quad Damage:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtOx5oXbcVA

 

The final boss will also have Quad Damage and Invulnerability during that time.

 

In effect, this forces you to beat her normally.

 

Edited by Master O

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Just tooting my own here and mention that me and a bunch of other people in the Doom community are working on a sort of community-made sequel to Dimension of the Boomed. So if you like Quake in your Doom, keep an eye out for that!

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2 hours ago, Dragonsbrethren said:

I wish Quake 1 would get the same love from id/Bethesda that classic Doom has been getting. A modern console port with add on support would be great.

they might. there are rumblings.

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Quake (1) = Doom with H.P Lovecraft and increased verticality. A huge reason why Romero left id. He wanted something new - melee and magic based, IIRC.

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4 hours ago, hybridial said:

I really like both Quake 1 and 2. I think strictly based on vanilla campaigns Quake 2 is better, but Quake 2's map community seems to be gone, like I couldn't find much custom content for it when I looked. Quake's on the other hand is insane and really takes it to another level.

 

I feel the same. I like the vanilla campaign of Quake 2 more than that of Quake 1, but Quake 1 has much better custom stuff available.

 

There are a few good mappacks out there. I haven't tried much but I did like the Castle of Stroggs series (it has 3 parts).

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On 4/4/2020 at 4:52 AM, DynamiteKaitorn said:

As much as I dislike Quake, if it wasn't for it than TF2's "Original" wouldn't exist; which would suck since that rocket launcher is handy when trying to rocket jump up a wall.

 

Also since we're talking Quake, should I bother picking up Q4?

Personally, I liked Quake 4. Never played any multiplayer but I thought the SP Campaign was pretty good. Of course, I also enjoyed DOOM 3 and many people trashed it so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt. O_o

 

You can get it for $20.00 CDN on Steam right now.

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On 4/4/2020 at 6:16 AM, Tetzlaff said:

 

 

It also lacks some nice details that could have been integrated easily, but where left out for whatever reason. Like those death animations of the Strogg in Q2, including randomly firing at the player a last time before dying.

Funny you should say that because the first time I played Brutal DOOM with the option to be able to kick the enemy, that image from the Strogg in Quake 2 came back to me. Like the ability to kick the bastard when he was down was needed at that time. lol

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On 4/5/2020 at 3:41 AM, cambreaKer said:

i just hate that the last 2 quake games are fucking multiplayer deathmatch, just make a fucking singleplayer game goddamnit!

I think with Quake 3, ID was trying to get in on the success of Unreal Tournament. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 7:55 AM, Doomkid said:

To those who prefer Quake over Doom, I’d like to ask why? Just curious what you think it does better.

 

In large, it's due to how Quake is way faster-paced, as it requires you to be fast at all times to win. In Doom, you simply have the option, but never really need to be fast to win (this is different with Doom 2). You just have very fast movement speed, unnecessarily fast so. 

The movement is greatly more varied and dynamic than Doom's; it has a much nicer 'dance and flow' to it. I love bunnyhopping and rocket-jumping.

 

Most enemies in Quake are a great danger just by themselves. This eliminates the feeling of mostly killing harmless cannon fodder I get when playing Doom 1 (this is also partially fixed in Doom 2 due to the larger, more dangerous bestiary). The weapons themselves feel much more powerful to use -- I think that the fixed damage values and lack of RNG contribute to that, and also contribute to allowing more consistency and less luck-reliancy.

And also the fact that it's fully-3D and has freelook, which allows for much more impressive combat situations and designs.

 

Of course, all this mixed in with an amazing dark fantasy aesthetic, and amazing ambient soundtrack by NiN is just the perfect combination for my tastes. I think Quake's style is primarily what differentiates it from Doom.

 

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Strangely enough. I've never been into Quake. I've played it a bit but the poligonal and dark look of it kept me back.

Years later I played Q2 on the playstation and it was the first FPS I enjoyed playing on a console. 

The only Quake I ever really liked was Q3, because I could pop it open, set an arena with a dozen bots and just frag everything to smithereens in under 15 minutes.

I did play a bit of Q4 when it came out but couldn't even get halfway through it. 

 

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I think Quake was mostly a large step up from Doom due to having a much more polished engine, and of course being "actual 3D™". The new engine also reflected a bit on how monsters in Quake behave, to the point where it's occasionally argued that quake's roster is "smarter", when in reality it is simply a matter of behaving more reliably due to engine differences instead of "roster quality and variety". Imagine Doom2's roster in a more polished engine like Quake's, and you'll quickly see for example that shamblers are less interesting Arch Viles due to not being able to resurrect anything and not providing vertical damage boosts, never mind the absence of Pain Elementals.

 

Romero's claim that Quake's Development was what broke id "in half" isn't something I'll ever buy into. It's more like Quake's development pushed an already unstable situation over the edge. Both Willits and Romero are doing a lot of talking to keep their reputation alive, or trying to ruin the reputation of the other. Romero is the more likeable person overall, which makes all the times he didn't make good on his promises easier to forget/overlook than Willits's outright nonsense, and it also makes Romero's point of view more believable. Romero's history of "broken promises" isn't limited to the often cited Daikatana, there's also Blackroom. Likewise, Willits can't help himself when it comes to absurd and easily disproven claims, like for example how he was the inventor of deathmatch-only maps, or how he was right there when Quake invented rocket jumping (even though it existed since Doom1 E3M6, where a rocket boost is the intended way to reach the secret exit to E3M9).

 

To quote what somebody wrote a few months ago:

 

-romero: lies to live up to his own legend
-willits: lies to craft his own legend
-carmack: lies to cover up his own crimes

-tom hall: here lies, rip his legend

 

In other words, there are enough reasons for why id "shattered" during the development of a new game (which just happened to be Quake), many of which have nothing to do with the game that was in development when the "fracturing" occurred. And don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a drink with Romero than with Willits, but you better believe I'll take whichever "id-soft-gossip" might be coming about with a grain of salt.

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On 4/5/2020 at 4:47 PM, Agentbromsnor said:

Just tooting my own here and mention that me and a bunch of other people in the Doom community are working on a sort of community-made sequel to Dimension of the Boomed. So if you like Quake in your Doom, keep an eye out for that!

Man, you beat it to me, I was going to make some shameless self-promotion as well...

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Quake was the driving force behind my first pentium PC!. The trusty 486 DX2 I had was fine with Doom, but Quake just killed it. The Pentium was a revelation, coupled with a shiny new Voodoo 1 graphics card. Fuckin' excellent times!

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On 4/12/2020 at 9:59 AM, Nine Inch Heels said:

-romero: lies to live up to his own legend

-willits: lies to craft his own legend
-carmack: lies to cover up his own crimes

-tom hall: here lies, rip his legend

What are Carmack's lies?

Also I'm missing Blackroom...

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