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Rymante

[WIP] Hellish Rogues - A new mapper's first mapset - August 11th NEW UPDATE RELEASED

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Posted (edited)

Just realised I never clarified the current status of the pack other than there's 3 maps finished out of 10, so let's break it down :

 

  • Map 01 - Infiltration  (Publicly released!  Implementing more improvements....)
  • Map 02 - Investigation  (Publicly released!  Implementing more improvements....)
  • Map 03 - Eradication  (Publicly released!  Implementing more improvements....)
  • Map 04 - Invasion  (Publicly released!  Awaiting further feedback....)
  • Map 05 - Trepidation  (Publicly released!  Awaiting further feedback....)
  • Map 06 - Apprehension  (Initial version finished.  Awaiting Public Release....)
  • Map 07 - Simplification  (Initial version finished.  Awaiting Public Release....)
  • Map 08 - Unnamed  (Development started....)
  • Map 09 - Unnamed  (Not yet started)
  • Map 10 - Annihilation  (Development started....)

 

The plan has changed, due to complications adding the secret levels at the points I wanted to in non-ZDoom based source ports, I am going ahead with 10 normal levels instead.

Edited by Rymante : Plan Update

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Posted (edited)

looks awesome mate! I think a new sky (meaning just not the default iwad one) would do the maps a huge favor

Edited by Tango

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The screenshots look great and don't give the vibe of a beginner map at all.

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13 hours ago, Tango said:

looks awesome mate! I think a new (meaning just not the default iwad one) would do the maps a huge favor

 

I'm sorry, a new what?  Methinks you may have missed a word or two there somehow.  Thanks for thinking the current maps look awesome tho, much appreciated!

 

11 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

The screenshots look great and don't give the vibe of a beginner map at all.

 

Thank you for the kind words!  I still consider myself a beginner at this as this mapset currently contains the 4th, 5th & 6th maps I've ever made, the first 3 were never publicly released.  The first two maps were kinda bad, falling into the beginner trap of using a lot of the default placed textures (so much STARTAN ;_;).

 

The 3rd map was the first one I put serious effort into, but the level design was a little troll-y & very linear.

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7 hours ago, Rymante said:

I'm sorry, a new what?

 

haha OOPS, a new sky. edited!

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A new sky would be nice for sure! Maybe some new music too?

 

I did notice an issue with Map 3. The back of the door in the waist high walled-off area in the second room doesn't have a sector tag set. I was a little surprised when nearly the whole level lowered itself! I played through all of the first 2 levels and most of the 3rd with Crispy Doom and didn't notice any other issues (though I'm really bad at noticing subtle misaligned textures or HOMs). My other piece of constructive feedback would be that the majority of combat encounters in the first 2 maps (and certainly some in the 3rd map) are easy to trivialize with "door combat". They might just need a chaingunner ambush or two to spice them up :)

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Gredge said:

I did notice an issue with Map 3. The back of the door in the waist high walled-off area in the second room doesn't have a sector tag set. I was a little surprised when nearly the whole level lowered itself!

 

Ah dammit!  I actually came across that issue when testing in Prboom+ as well, I thought I fixed it but as it turns out I only fixed it on one side!  I have absolutely, definitely fixed it this time on both sides & that fix will be in the next release.  That bug went unnoticed for a while because it somehow just worked in GZDoom despite the missing tags.

 

16 minutes ago, Gredge said:

 My other piece of constructive feedback would be that the majority of combat encounters in the first 2 maps (and certainly some in the 3rd map) are easy to trivialize with "door combat". They might just need a chaingunner ambush or two to spice them up :)

 

Spicing up combat encounters is definitely being worked on for the next release, Map 01 is already feeling a bit nicer with some of the revisions I've made today.

 

1 hour ago, Tango said:

haha OOPS, a new sky. edited!

 

16 minutes ago, Gredge said:

A new sky would be nice for sure! Maybe some new music too?

 

Hmmm, I agree the default sky isn't too nice, once 'Hellish Rogues' is closer to completion I'll take a look at including custom assets.

 

As for music, I'm not certain what I'm allowed to use or not in that regard, so I'll need someone to point me in the right direction there.  I guess I'm one of the few people who isn't sick to death of some of Doom 2's default music XD

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Started working on the Map 03 rework today, the start of the map will be quite different in the new version & of course, the map as a whole won't be as long as it used to be.

 

For those who have played the current version, the new version of the map will end after the 'big encounter' behind the blue key door, said encounter will also be tweaked somewhat, one example being that army of Imps that precedes the encounter, I don't know yet if I will just get rid of them or not, I definitely want to do something about them not just flooding the doorway.

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Posted (edited)

Greetings everyone!  'Hellish Rogues' has been updated!  Beta 4 Revision 1 contains the following changes & fixes :

 

 

Map 01 -Infiltration

  • Fixed some texture alignment issues.
  • Added a handful of more enemies & a couple of traps, HMP & UV should feel a bit tougher now, but not massively so as it is a Map01.
  • Health drops dialed way back, there was definitely way too much before.
  • The MegaArmour in one of the side rooms was replaced with a different item, again I was being a little too generous to the player.

Map 02 - Investigation

  • Fixed some texture alignment issues.
  • Some rooms received minor visual touch ups.
  • Added more enemies & traps, repositioned others, again should feel more fun to play on HMP & UV.
  • Removed the Berserk secret, a Berserk pack is now available through normal progression if you keep your eyes open.
  • Adjusted health & ammo drops throughout the level.

Map 03 - Eradication

  • Map 03 has been made noticeably shorter, the level exit is now accessible just after the 'big encounter' on the far end of the map behind a locked door inside the base.
  • The 'reception desk' lift door in the second room of the map has the sector tags it's needs on both sides, thus this should no longer cause most of the levels walls to lower when interacting with it in Prboom+ & Crispy Doom (oddly enough GZDoom was not affected by this bug).
  • Level Progression has been altered, if you played the previous release, you'll notice changes when you hit the main bridge.
  • Due to the shorter length, enemy count has significantly reduced, but there are still a lot of enemies on this map, attempts have been made to use the enemies more smartly rather than just throw a mob at you.
  • The 'big encounter' in the penultimate room has been revised, I'll let you discover how on your own, but I think this new version is much more fun than the old.
  • Removed some secret areas, there were 9, now there are just 5.

 

You'll find the updated download in the Intro post!

 

I hope the new versions of these maps prove more enjoyable!  For the next update I hope to get at least one new map into the set, until then, let me know what you think of these 3 revised maps!  ^_^

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This is an amazing mappack that deserves way more recognition!

Throughout the whole wad I had tons of fun, so much opportunity to run and frag with SSG, rockets and BFG in the last map, despite map 3 being linear, I didn't feel it, and still enjoyed the entirety of it.

The many secrets per map is really applaud-worthy.

I'm actually surprised that you managed to make such long maps, such fun, it takes a lot of talent for someone so new, or even not new, to be able to do that.

 

Can't wait for the full episode!

 

I beat the all the maps in a row in this FDA (for Beta 4 revision 1) here that you can play in PRBoom+ :

HellishRoguesFDAjoe.zip

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1 hour ago, joe-ilya said:

This is an amazing mappack that deserves way more recognition!

Throughout the whole wad I had tons of fun, so much opportunity to run and frag with SSG, rockets and BFG in the last map, despite map 3 being linear, I didn't feel it, and still enjoyed the entirety of it.

The many secrets per map is really applaud-worthy.

I'm actually surprised that you managed to make such long maps, such fun, it takes a lot of talent for someone so new, or even not new, to be able to do that.

 

Can't wait for the full episode!

 

I beat the all the maps in a row in this FDA (for Beta 4 revision 1) here that you can play in PRBoom+ :

HellishRoguesFDAjoe.zip

 

Thanks for the kind words!  Glad you enjoyed the maps.  ^_^  Your demo was an entertaining & informative watch, I noticed from your demo I have a couple small issues to fix but thankfully nothing too major, so I can focus more on adding more maps.

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I had a friend of mine test Hellish Rogues this morning & he discovered a soft lock in Map 02 so I opted to push out a bug fix update today rather than wait for more to be finished.  I also fixed one small issue I saw pop up in @joe-ilya's demo :

 

MAP02

  • Fixed a soft lock bug in the green room where you grab the blue key.

MAP03

  • Moved a switch that lowers a lift revealing a secret so that it cannot be hit from a lower elevation than intended.

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Greetings everyone!

 

I have been working on two new maps for 'Hellish Rogues' for a while now & they're almost ready for a public test, they will be released alongside further improvements to the first 3 maps.

 

First we have Map 04 - Invasion :

 

04InvasionExitGate.jpg

 

The final Facility themed level, a short map that leads into an all out war for the Demon Gate, expect heavy resistance & even when you beat it, those hellish rogues somehow get the last laugh.......

 

That then leads into the first map set in the monster's home, Map 05 - Trepidation :

 

05TrepidationEntranc.jpg

 

You emerge from the Demon Gate into a strange underground cavern of sorts, with a mixture of stone, metal & flesh making up the architecture, you proceed onwards trying to make sense of it all......

 

05TrepidationBloodFo.jpg

 

Expect many tricks & traps, ammo & health are more lacking compared to previous maps so aim true, move fast & maybe you'll get out of this unspeakable place alive!

 

In addition to these maps, the first 3 maps are being touched up & rebalanced, particularly in regards to Co-op UV.  If you find Single Player UV too easy maybe trying Co-op UV in Single-Player will give you the challenge you seek without having to resort to Nightmare or just Fast Monsters.

 

========================================

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

========================================

 

Alas, I do have to make some alterations to my original plan, I cannot implement the secret levels at the points I want to in non-ZDoom based source ports, so I am ax-ing the secret levels........

 

Instead there will be 10 normal levels that everyone can play!  Isn't that just grand?  I will update the 2nd post to reflect the new plan going forward.  ^_^

 

I hope to release a new version either by the end of this week or early next week.  Until then, have fun Doom-ing!  ^_^

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Greetings everyone!  I finally have a new release of Hellish Rogues ready for you!  Beta 5 Revision 3 includes the following changes & additions :

 

MAPS 01, 02 & 03

  • The first 3 maps some of you have played already have seen further balancing & adjustments, a few more enemies on Ultra Violence, small reductions in Rocket & Plasma ammo, a lot more enemies in Co-op Ultra Violence if you can convince a friend to join you or are up for the insane challenge of solo-ing it (seriously it's nuts) & maybe a couple more things I've forgotten about!

NEW MAP!  MAP 04 - INVASION

  • The final base map of Hellish Rogues, it reuses some old rooms leftover from the old, super long version of MAP 03 but also adds a new large encounter, the Rogues are guarding the entrance to their domain and they will fight fiercely to protect it, a short but concentrated dose of demon killing carnage, I hope you are ready for it!

NEW MAP!  MAP 05 - TREPIDATION

  • You've arrived in the Hellish home of these monsters, a bizarre mixture of stone, metal & flesh, filled with deadly traps.  You have no choice but to press on, but you fear what you may find ahead.......


Maps 4 & 5 are fairly short maps, after Maps 2 & 3 I wanted to scale things back a bit for a while & I feel like the few people who have playtested Hellish Rogues might appreciate the snappier maps for the moment (tho I don't know if they'll appreciate the difficulty bump!  XD)

 

I hope you enjoy all 5 maps currently in Hellish Rogues & I look forward to hearing feedback about them!

 

Download Beta 5 Revision 3 HERE! (or from the updated link in the first post....)

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Greetings everyone!

 

Apologies for the long silence, I hit something of a creative block & got distracted, but I'll have an update for Hellish Rogues out very soon!  The next update will be substantial in a number of ways, the biggest of which being 2 new maps!

 

First we have Map 06 - Apprehension.

 

06ApprehensionCentra.jpg

 

This strange world is getting more complex to navigate, locked doors at every turn, mysterious teleporters taking you to deadly traps & ferocious monsters.

 

06ApprehensionShotgu.jpg

 

Huh, apparently they know how to read, who knew?  Or do they?  Seems strange to keep a Super Shotgun & Armour in a library of all places.....

 

Moving along we have Map 07 - Simplification.

 

07SimplificationStar.jpg

 

You can probably guess why the map is named the way it is, be prepared for a very tough fight!

 

The next release will also include the following :

  • Custom music!  Including a couple of James Paddock pieces ^_^
  • Some custom textures to add a bit more visual variety, also courtesy of James Paddock via his 'jimmytex.wad'
  • Level design tweaks & bug fixes!
  • It will also probably include new bugs that I somehow missed let's be honest....

I hope to release the next version sometime in August 2020, perhaps in a few days if everything goes well!

 

As for future releases, Map 08 is proving a struggle to make and the other remaining maps have not yet been started so, further updates may also suffer a lengthy passage of time.

 

Until next time, stay tuned for the update's release.

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hey m8! i just played and recorded the whole thing, will post the video once it's uploaded, i think that map 5 is where you need to start, a very very clever and cool map!

My video will have commentary so will hear all my thoughts there :)

good job

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IT IS TIME!  BETA 6 IS HERE!

 

Grab it HERE or from the first post.  A lot of changes in this one!  Here's an overview :

 

ALL MAPS :

 

Hellish Rogues now makes use of the 'jimmytex.wad' resource pack for a bit more texture variety, put together by James Paddock.

 

Custom music has been implemented, both through MAPINFO & through DeHacked, so that many ports can hear the changes.  See specific map changes for the specific music.

 

I've now dabbled a bit with replacing sprites & tweaking enemy stats, the Cacodemon & Baron have gotten a facelift as a result!  The changes have been implemented both through DECORATE for ZDoom based ports & through DeHacked for other ports.
(Credit to 'Jimmy' for the 'Agathodemon' Cacodemon sprite edits & to 'Eriance' & 'Maelstrom' for the 'Pyro Demon' Baron sprite edits.)

 

MAP 01 :

 

Music has been changed to 'Shells.mid' composed by James Paddock.
The method to obtain the 'Box of Rockets' secret outside the base has changed, will you be able to find it?

 

MAP 02 :

 

Some enemies in an ambush were changed.
A particular secret area has been made a little more obvious.

 

MAP 03 :

 

Music has been changed to 'Techno Prisoners.mid' composed by James Paddock.
The green doors you need to go through have been made more consistent, they now require switches to open on both sides.
A new secret has been added!  Will you be able to find it?

 

MAP 04 :

 

Music has been changed to a midi cover of the Streets level music from N64 classic Goldeneye.
A small tweak has been made to the big fight, if you watch where you move, you might be able to reduce the amount of enemies coming out from the monster boxes.

 

MAP 05 :

 

Music has been changed to a midi cover of the level 'Lair of the Blind Ones' from FPS game Turok 2.
4 new mini-secrets have been added, they're all very close together & give you a little bit more ammo & armour, can you figure out how to access them?

 

NEW!  MAP 06 - Apprehension

 

Will you be able to navigate this new addition once the multiple paths open up?  Prepare to face a variety of traps as you make your way through.  Triggers a custom Intermission text crawl on completion with replaced music, a midi cover of the 'Calm' theme from forgotten N64 game Body Harvest.

 

NEW!  MAP 07 - Simplification

 

If you've played a lot of Doom 2 and/or custom wads for Doom 2, you know the significance of Map 07, expect a much beefier challenge than the original!

 

 

I hope people enjoy the new release & I eagerly await feedback on the new additions, have fun!  ^_^

 

 

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I just finished giving your latest version a run through. Overall I thought it was pretty good, especially for a new mapper! For full disclosure's sake, I played it continuously and I used quicksaves (I've been running through BTSX pistol starts and no saving and I have just run out of patience for dying and starting maps over again and again :P). I think this impacted the difficulty quite a bit toward the easier side, but that didn't diminish my enjoyment.

 

I will say that I think the Hell maps are where your mapping starts to shine, it feels like you're starting to hit your stride. The earlier techbase maps are kind of "take it or leave it" for me, there was definitely some interesting elements to them but I also found some of the battles to be a bit bland. For example, I think it was the 3rd map(?) where one of the traps was just like, a dozen Hellknights and Revenants and it was just kind of meh - not a difficult fight, just a tedious one. I would suggest trying to vary up encounters like this one so there is a bit more of an element of target prioritization, otherwise it just becomes a matter of killing clusters of bullet sponges which I don't find very exciting, and doubly so because this type of encounter mix isn't uncommon in this WAD. Fight-wise, the WAD ranges from "uninspired" to "pretty interesting" with nothing really dipping into the negative - I would definitely say for a new mapper this is a pretty good mark to hit! Nothing felt like "okay that's just bullshit".

 

Structurally, the maps are pretty interesting. I liked exploring in these maps and appreciated that there was some non-linearity to them. Finding the secrets was usually not too difficult but at the same time felt clever enough that it felt like an accomplishment. I also liked that you provide the automap at the end, which is a real bonus if you are playing continuous, and is probably nice for anyone who would pistol start these maps and want to come back to them again. Again, to talk about the Hell maps as where you stride really starts to pick up, I liked a lot of the trickery/transformation that was frequently present. It really felt like some classic Doom 2 without relying on mean-spirited or "impossible to survive unless you already know it's coming" type of gotcha moments. You seem to be able to lean into this type of design without making anything gimmicky.

 

Visually, I thought most of the maps were "serviceable" if not a bit bland looking, but basically without any major glaring flaws that scream "noob mapper" to me. I wouldn't really consider this a negative, just more that there's nothing that stands out to score bonus points if that makes sense. But you also do a good job at incorporating contrast into your design, either as cramped/open areas, light/dark areas, and the general shape of things. Overall, the visual styling definitely leans towards more classic abstract than anything modern or hyperdetailed, and again, it's not a bad thing, just more that there isn't a whole lot of "wow!" factor in it either. 

 

I also like your tweaks to the monster roster. The Cacodemons remind me of the Astral Cacodemons from Eviternity (but waaaay less of a pain in the ass :P) and I always like that Pyro Knight sprite (especially the death animation, idk why but it's so satisfying to just watch them vaporize like that). Are you planning to tweak more of the monsters, or was this just done for a bit of variety?

 

I would definitely recommend this set to anyone looking to plug in and experience some classic Doom 2. You seem to have a surprising degree of competence that puts you a step ahead of other new mappers (I hope that doesn't sound like an underhanded compliment or anything, I mean it completely sincerely!) and I can only imagine how your mapping will evolve as you continue to gain experience. I'm honestly looking forward to seeing the rest of the maps that round out this WAD - finishing your take on Dead Simple left me wanting more, and honestly I think that's about the best place you can find yourself as a content creator. Nicely done!!

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@LVENdead Wow, first of all thank you for the detailed feedback!  I'm glad you enjoyed the currently available maps, good to know I'm doing something right.

 

3 hours ago, LVENdead said:

I will say that I think the Hell maps are where your mapping starts to shine, it feels like you're starting to hit your stride. The earlier techbase maps are kind of "take it or leave it" for me, there was definitely some interesting elements to them but I also found some of the battles to be a bit bland. For example, I think it was the 3rd map(?) where one of the traps was just like, a dozen Hellknights and Revenants and it was just kind of meh - not a difficult fight, just a tedious one. I would suggest trying to vary up encounters like this one so there is a bit more of an element of target prioritization, otherwise it just becomes a matter of killing clusters of bullet sponges which I don't find very exciting, and doubly so because this type of encounter mix isn't uncommon in this WAD. Fight-wise, the WAD ranges from "uninspired" to "pretty interesting" with nothing really dipping into the negative - I would definitely say for a new mapper this is a pretty good mark to hit! Nothing felt like "okay that's just bullshit". 

 

Yeah, I know the encounter you mean & the more I think about it, the more I agree that encounter is bland & tedious.  The maps were built in the order you play through them initially until the Hell levels, where I built most of Map 7 before starting Map 6, so understandably I've improved somewhat since those initial Tech Base maps.  Whilst I have gone back & made tweaks to earlier maps throughout this project that one fight has slipped through the cracks, I'll take another stab at it at some point.

 

3 hours ago, LVENdead said:

Structurally, the maps are pretty interesting. I liked exploring in these maps and appreciated that there was some non-linearity to them. Finding the secrets was usually not too difficult but at the same time felt clever enough that it felt like an accomplishment. I also liked that you provide the automap at the end, which is a real bonus if you are playing continuous, and is probably nice for anyone who would pistol start these maps and want to come back to them again. Again, to talk about the Hell maps as where you stride really starts to pick up, I liked a lot of the trickery/transformation that was frequently present. It really felt like some classic Doom 2 without relying on mean-spirited or "impossible to survive unless you already know it's coming" type of gotcha moments. You seem to be able to lean into this type of design without making anything gimmicky. 

 

Thank you!  Adding some non-linearity to my maps was tricky because I usually hate getting lost in Doom maps, I tend to get bored if I'm not making constant progression.  Also, putting a Computer Map next to the exit just makes sense to me, since you've basically beaten the level at that point and I'd say you've earned a little help tracking down any secrets you've missed, which is also why I've tried to make sure it's always possible to backtrack through a level & that any damaging pit has a way out without needing to reload a save.

 

I do have a soft spot for classic Doom 2 design since I grew up with it.....well most of it, I'd never make a Chasm style map for example.

 

3 hours ago, LVENdead said:

Visually, I thought most of the maps were "serviceable" if not a bit bland looking, but basically without any major glaring flaws that scream "noob mapper" to me. I wouldn't really consider this a negative, just more that there's nothing that stands out to score bonus points if that makes sense. But you also do a good job at incorporating contrast into your design, either as cramped/open areas, light/dark areas, and the general shape of things. Overall, the visual styling definitely leans towards more classic abstract than anything modern or hyperdetailed, and again, it's not a bad thing, just more that there isn't a whole lot of "wow!" factor in it either.

 

Yeah, I definitely struggle to make my maps look better than 'presentable'  It's my hope that I'll get better at that with practice.

 

I think the current visual state of the maps was partly borne out of a desire to get something out there & get some much needed feedback.  I also think I need to just play some more of the many MANY custom maps out there, might give me some inspiration ^_^

 

3 hours ago, LVENdead said:

I also like your tweaks to the monster roster. The Cacodemons remind me of the Astral Cacodemons from Eviternity (but waaaay less of a pain in the ass :P) and I always like that Pyro Knight sprite (especially the death animation, idk why but it's so satisfying to just watch them vaporize like that). Are you planning to tweak more of the monsters, or was this just done for a bit of variety?

 

I'm not planning to tweak more monsters, the changes were done for a couple of main reasons :

  1. I wanted to differentiate the Baron of Hell from the Hell Knight more.
  2. I was curious to learn the process for adding/replacing/swapping sprites & tweaking stats through both DECORATE & DeHacked.

The experience was fun & very informative, I will likely mess around with swaps & additions more in a different, future project.

 

 

Thanks again for your feedback & constructive criticism, hopefully once the remaining maps are completing you'll find them just as enjoyable!  ^_^

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1 hour ago, Rymante said:

I'd never make a Chasm style map for example.

 

Hah! I suspect this is why my newest map hasn't gotten as much attention as my first one :P

 

Good luck to you, I'm looking forward to playing the finished WAD!

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