Tormentor667. Care to explain why you plagiarised Epic 2?

[Dragonfly]

I don't like this discovery, but it has come to light that @Tormentor667 is a plagiarist. Someone checked out Skulldash, and they noticed some shocking similarities which myself and other testers of the project failed to spot. They let me know about this via Discord. Tormentor667 has directly ripped and edited sections of Epic 2 in their map submission for Skulldash (Sekhmet's Fury, Skulldash MAP38). But... Why? I believed Torm to be more than capable of coming up with original ideas, now I have to ask, what other maps have they subtly (or not so subtly) stolen from?

 

 

I present my evidence:

 

A section of Epic 2 MAP02 copy-pasted over Tormentor's map: [Link to MP4 version]

 

 

Another section from the same map: [Link to MP4 version]

 

 

 

 

Here's a chunk of Epic 2 MAP04: [Link to MP4 version]

 

 

 

 

And lastly a section of Epic 2 MAP09: [Link to MP4 version]

 

 

---------------

 

@Tormentor667 Need I remind you of the text file accompanying Epic 2? It reads as follows:

 

Quote

Authors may NOT use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse.  Permissions have been obtained from original authors for any of their resources modified or included in this file.

 

Given you provided a lack of info on this, I'm willing to bet you didn't ask for permission. Eternal goes completely uncredited in Skulldash as a result, which is a fact I'm incredibly angry about. Had this come to light your map would have been rejected faster than you can say "Thief".

 

What do you have to say for yourself? From where I'm standing, this looks really, really bad. You're a talented person, but after finding this I'm really not sure how much of what you've published is actually your work...

[Austinado]

Is there a Cringe section in DW?

 

....

[esselfortium]

Ow, that's pretty bad.

 

It should also be noted that this isn't the first time Tormentor667 has plagiarized. When he left TSoZD on bad terms and pulled z2m3 from the project to finish it as a standalone release, he was asked not to release some custom textures I had made specifically for use in TSoZD. He mirrored my resources in an image editor and told me that he had remade them from scratch. The public release didn't use the mirrored versions, because he was caught in the act (I made mirrored comparison gifs similar to what Dragonfly posted here), but he tried passing the edits off as original and vehemently denied having copied them when I pointed it out.

 

At the time I didn't think of it as a possible pattern, but now I wonder what else has been ripped.

[Jimmy]

If you plagiarise, you're dead to me.

 

Deplorable.

[phoo]

Eugh, that's just bad. If you're gonna make something, at least use your own original ideas and don't steal from other people's work.

[Poncho1]

Homage is fine when done right. Flat-out copy-and-pasting is pretty damn bad.

[Szymanski]

Not cool

[DMPhobos]

That's deplorable, not just the fact that it's plagarizing another map, but also that it was submitted for someone else project
It does makes me question his other work

[Breezeep]

Shameful. Just Shameful.

[Linguica]

Early warning that this is not going to be allowed to turn into a drama bomb and the accursed mods will be watching.

[taufan99]

Well, this is one terrible discovery. Definitely not the type anyone would like to wake up to.

Still, while I myself do detest the fact that Tormentor667 has done this, let's stay civil and rational, instead of just calling names and whatnot, just like what Linguica reminds us.

[Lila Feuer]

Big yikes.

[Crunchynut44]

I don't get it by the time youve dragged it over, connected it to your existing map, re shaped and textured the room, changed it in various ways so its not exactly the same you could have made something completely original with all that time spent. Sad.

[[Vitz!]]

If you're gonna copy you should at least give credit to the original source, man.

 

What the hell

[Redneckerz]

Before i am going to side step and respond on the claim later on (or perhaps not, i dunno if its worth it) (Other than that i don't like the setup of the OP, far too aggressive if you ask me) coincidentially i had a message from Torm earlier in the day regarding the R667 site. So i have to step in and press the fire extinguisher here.

Before we start this discussion, Please keep this in mind:

 

The message featured a reference to a rather personal matter regarding a recent death in Torm's family, so you can imagine that the last thing he has on his mind is to respond to this issue.

Other then that i just want to chip my personal recollection in: Torm's a great guy and we have and are working great together on R667.

I just want to set this out prior to responding in a seperate post. If there is an explanation for this, i am sure Torm will come forward and address this when the time comes.

For now, please keep the bolded in mind. As enticing as it is to provide a head on address to and about Torm, do note that you are not aware of the fuller picture here. (Neither was i, in fact. Its just that here i have a different piece of info versus Dragonfly's.)

@Linguica if you want to have this verified please approach me through DM and i will highlight this.

Bah, sucks reading this news knowing full well where Torm's head likely is focused upon right now.....

.... It isn't this, trust me.
 

43 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

If you plagiarise, you're dead to me.

 

Deplorable.

.... Yeah, please lets not do this kind of thing. There are worse matters right now, as understandable as these initial reactions are.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Redneckerz

[esselfortium]

I've hidden a bunch of low-effort memespam posts in this thread, please knock it off.

[Mr. Freeze]

29 minutes ago, Poncho1 said:

Homage is fine when done right. Flat-out copy-and-pasting is pretty damn bad.

 

I don't think I've seen a mapper homage another mapper's project. I wonder where the line is drawn? 

[Jimmy]

18 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

.... Yeah, please lets not do this kind of thing. There are worse matters right now, as understandable as these initial reactions are.

 

I'm passionate about creativity, and I actively try to encourage it in projects like The Joy of Mapping, my personal speedmapping pursuits, and the community projects I've led.

 

Seeing people not bother to come up with their own ideas and instead opting to literally grab someone else's lines and put them in their own work is something I will never understand or allow in my own projects.

 

There's never any good reason or excuse. It always irks me.

[rampancy]

time out... certainly there is a better way to do this?

[Major Arlene]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

I don't think I've seen a mapper homage another mapper's project. I wonder where the line is drawn? 

when you literally copy and paste several sections and sectors out of it without permission (i.e. what this shows)

[OniriA]

Just to see this from the other side for a second. If it is only certain parts of the map wich are similar while differently textured and connected to an otherwise different layout altogether, then it shouldn't be a big issue I suppose.  Didn't Plutonia had similar and identical layouts as Doom 1? 

[Major Arlene]

1 minute ago, OniriA said:

Just to see this from the other side for a second. If it is only certain parts of the map wich are similar while differently textured and connected to an otherwise different layout altogether, then it shouldn't be a big issue I suppose.  Didn't Plutonia had similar and identical layouts as Doom 1? 

the text file accompanying Epic 2? It reads as follows:

 

  Quote

Authors may NOT use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse.  Permissions have been obtained from original authors for any of their resources modified or included in this file.
 

end of story.

[silentzorah]

Ruh-roh.  Certainly not a fan of this sort of behavior.  I'd like to hear the explanation on this, for sure.

[Horus]

3 minutes ago, rampancy said:

time out... certainly there is a better way to do this?

 

What better way is there? If someone has plagiarised, then the community deserves to know.

[Hunting4r2d2]

Do not like this

 

[Redneckerz]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

 

I'm passionate about creativity, and I actively try to encourage it in projects like The Joy of Mapping, my personal speedmapping pursuits, and the community projects I've led.

And i thank you profusely for it, obviously! In fact i covered your Invasion project on R667, to begin with!

2 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

 

Seeing people not bother to come up with their own ideas and instead opting to literally grab someone else's lines and put them in their own work is something I will never understand or allow in my own projects.

 

There's never any good reason or excuse. It always irks me.

.... Trust me, the coincidentality of this thread and Torm's personal tragedy is what i consider more than enough of an excuse, to put it in your words, to not want to deal with this issue right now.

I am not going to defend Torm's practices here, i am just trying to put a more humane notion to this. And i hope that this will be understood as such.

There are things in Torm's life right now that outweigh this case file. I rather prefer to support Torm through those dark times then to be flipping him off because of something bad he did in Doom.

[MTrop]

Who disturbs my slumber?

 

Oh. This shit.

 

Torm's always been a copy-paster. I just didn't know that it escaped the confines of his maps!

 

But I at least feel pretty flattered that he decided to lift a lot of the page titles, content, and basic layouts for the Blade of Agony website from The Adventures of Square's website - up to and including my strange version-size-operating system blurbs on the Downloads page, the team page titling and passage ordering, and having similar page titles and a page called "locales" ("locales"?! Who the hell calls it that?! Other than me, it seems.). At least he had the sense to not copy my awkward Bootstrap/jQuery use.

 

Can't wait to see the outpouring of Torm sycophants swarming this thread. You know what they say, "Immature artists copy, great artists steal."

 

Three cheers to a great artist!

 

HIP-HIP, GO FUCK YOURSELF

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

1 minute ago, Redneckerz said:

And i thank you profusely for it, obviously! In fact i covered your Invasion project on R667, to begin with!

.... Trust me, the coincidentality of this thread and Torm's personal tragedy is what i consider more than enough of an excuse, to put it in your words, to not want to deal with this issue right now.

I am not going to defend Torm's practices here, i am just trying to put a more humane notion to this. And i hope that this will be understood as such.

There are things in Torm's life right now that outweigh this case file. I rather prefer to support Torm through those dark times then to be flipping him off because of something bad he did in Doom.

 

You do realize how you're coming across here right 

[Jimmy]

8 minutes ago, OniriA said:

Just to see this from the other side for a second. If it is only certain parts of the map wich are similar while differently textured and connected to an otherwise different layout altogether, then it shouldn't be a big issue I suppose.  Didn't Plutonia had similar and identical layouts as Doom 1? 

 

Different story. The Casali brothers took stock level ideas and then drew their own lines.

[Marcaek]

Plutonia is specifically a remake based on ideas in the first two Dooms. Those maps are original layouts. This is identical line-for-line copying.