Tormentor667 & Operation Rheingold

[Laz Rojas]

Hi, Laz Rojas here. I just signed up to the forum only to find the topic "Tormentor667. Care to explain why you plagiarised Epic 2?" has once again been closed, so I'm posting what I would have replied there regarding his lifting of almost the entirety of Rheingold Episode 1's first map and his current disclaimer about it.

 

Quite a while ago, Torm emailed me privately and told me about BoA, explained it was an homage to WolfenDoom, and asked for my permission to use some of my stuff. I gave him my permission, he kept me informed about the project's progress, and I'd say he handled that situation properly and as well as I would want.

 

His use of Rhein1 in UTNT is an entirely different matter. I wasn't even aware of it until I read the plagiarism thread two days ago after someone brought it to my attention via email. He never told me about that project or asked for my permission, and regardless of his description of what he copied as being a "snippet", it's obvious to anyone that the majority of the map and everything in it was copied right out of Rheingold and pasted into his project. In fact, I saw a video on YouTube yesterday of UTNT gameplay on that map, and if I hadn't already known that it was UTNT, I would have sworn I was watching someone playing Rheingold itself!

 

His explanation for not crediting me in UTNT is specious at best. As I stated, he never informed me about that project nor his use of my map in it, nor did he ask for permission to use the map. I can fully understand the reasoning for not crediting me in the text file. Since the inclusion of the map was intended as an Easter egg, any mention of it would obviously spoil the secret. But there's a simple way to keep it a secret yet provide proper credit at the same time. You include a wall texture with the credit. Somewhere on the map, the player can read the credit right there and know where the map came from. If the player never finds the secret, he never sees the credit but it doesn't matter because he's not aware the secret even exists. But if he finds the Easter egg, he also finds out about the map's origin.

 

An homage is also not effective if what it's paying tribute to is not known. Only Doomers familiar with my work and with Rheingold itself would recognize the inclusion of Rhein1 in UTNT as a tribute. Other Doomers would have no idea I actually made it years ago and be unaware of any homage. 

 

The fact that Torm never contacted me about using Rhein1 in UTNT in the first place throws cold water on his explanations and justifications now. Asking me for permission and then not crediting me would have been bad enough, but he never asked and never credited. I wish he had been as up-front about it with me as he was about BoA.

 

Laz Rojas

[Laz Rojas]

Picture this.

 

As B.J. Blazkowicz rounds the next corner and ducks into the shadows, catching his breath after managing
to escape from yet another contingent of relentless Waffen-SS shouting "Halten sie!", he turns to see the
following scrawled all over the side of the building, like graffiti:

 

THIS MAP ORIGINALLY CREATED BY LAZ ROJAS FOR OPERATION RHEINGOLD AND IS USED WITH HIS PERMISSION

 

Doomers familiar with WolfenDoom would say, "Yeah, I already knew that." Doomers unfamiliar would say,
"Okay, that's cool to know." B.J. himself would say, "Who the hell is Laz Rojas? Crap, here come some more
of those Krauts and I've only got one ammo clip left!"

 

Something as simple as this would have properly resolved the situation and it wouldn't be an issue twelve years later. But I was unable to suggest it back then because I was never even told about the intention to use Rhein1 or asked for permission. Had permission been asked in 2008, I would have granted it, and when the issue of keeping the secret had come up, my solution then would have been the same as it is now.

[Mordeth]

Offtopic, but it is nice to see you post here. Hope everything is well on your end!

[Tormentor667]

Just wanted to note that I am currently in contact with Laz. I think my message in private is nothing that I need to hide, so I will simply copy and paste it here for the reasons of transparency and honesty.
 

Quote

 

Dear Laz,

 

I am certainly glad to hear from you even though it is not a positive concern at the moment - and same as you, we both have other tasks to deal with in our real lifes currently (I have already told Rick about it).

 

Still, I want to take the time to answer and explain to you at a gentlemen-basis, as it is important to me not to disappoint you.

 

First at all - I love your work, it was a great inspiration to me at the end of the 90s to work on Doom maps and it ever since was. We talked about Blade of Agony years ago and to be clear about it: This project would not exist without yourWolfenDoom projects. Another reason why I would never have wanted to copy and paste work uncredited.

 

16 years ago (yes, 16, not 14 because the easter-egg was included in Torment & Torture - Lost Episode first), I was a young person, aged 19 years old. Yes, a young human being, inconsiderate and easy-going in everything I was doing. In these days for me it was clear that people know about WolfenDoom, they get the homage, and I didn't think about asking for permission - as I didn't ask the music producers of Matrix if I can use one of the score songs as background for the map. I thought it's just fine, people will get it.

 

This is not an excuse, but an explanation. If I would create Torment & Torture Lost Episode today, things would be different - I can tell you this. I made experiences with esselfortium, I made experiences with wildweasel, and I also made an experience with you regarding this all.

 

Blade of Agony has huge files for credits, a long credit roll at the end of the mod and one of our teammates does an amazing job to make sure, nothing is missed when it comes to sources. Sure, chances are high that with the size of a project, some things might be missed.

 

But it is not our intention to forget people. And it was not my intention 16 years ago to disappoint you or use material from your projects for my own pride - it was to honor your work, I simply didn't expect this plagiarism scandal to happen 16 years later.

 

So I really hope you accept my apology, I am really sorry to have disappointed you. It was not my intention.

 

Sincerely

 

 

[taufan99]

Glad to finally hear some words from the man himself. Hope this ends well for everybody.

[Scuba Steve]

I really don't want to derail the thread, but I might not get another chance to pose this question to you, Laz. The VICE documentary from several years ago showcased just how important film making and acting are to you; you've spent your entire life pursuing a dream of working in cinema. Where did Doom fit into this? Was it a side passion? Was it an extension of your desires to be involved with cinema? (In hindsight, there's definitely a lot of storytelling going on, particularly the Astrostein series.)

 

I'm a middle aged man now, but in my youth, myself and everyone I knew in this community had played the WolfenDoom series. When I learned about your lifelong fascination and ambition for cinema, it was bizarre for me because you were "the WolfenDoom guy" first, and film making was just something I learned about later. Do these two parts of your life ever cross, or was Doom modding just another hobby outside film making? The lengths you went through to produce your demo tape are extraordinary; did you have the same devotion towards your Doom projects as well? Did you demand the same perfection? What else might you be able to share about your history with Doom that we don't know?

 

I ask because it's fascinating to me when I learn about the outside lives of people whom I know only through the their creative work for an almost 30-year-old video game. Some of our earliest members have passed away and we never really had the chance to ask them about their involvement in Doom... and, as you said in the documentary, under different circumstances, I might have never had this chance to ask you.

 

Again, not to derail the topic at hand, but I've been curious about your history in the community for so long, I'd love to know more. Hopefully things are going well, now. Thanks, Laz.

[D00mJedi]

Offtopic - but glad to hear from you pal, I love your WolfenDoom works Laz.

I'm proud to be part of "Blade of Agony", with all the homage and respect it does to you and your mods.

[Big Ol Billy]

At the risk of piling on off-topic posts, very cool to see Laz posting here. After vaguely hearing the name around, I finally got to spend some time with the WolfenDoom projects and the amazing VICE documentary when working on a certain recent Wolfenstein-meets-Doom-in-space project. I was blown away that the Doom community had such a unique and passionate artist in its history. (I'd definitely second all of Scuba Steve's questions, on that note.) We love you Laz!

[Cacodemon345]

Did the OP forgive Torm though? That remains the question.

[Lila Feuer]

Hey @Laz Rojas! It's great to see you, hope you're doing well. I just wanted to chime in and say that I grew up on your WolfenDoom games and they were actually my taste of registered Wolf3D and my Wolfenstein supply for a while, before I got the real deal that was Wolf3D + all the addons for that later. Even then, the Doom translation of the original episodes and Spear of Destiny still have a cool atmosphere to them. Of the original games, Arctic Wolf Special Edition was my favorite.

[Redneckerz]

As Laz currently is limited by the post limit rule, he has asked to publish the following message in public.
 

Quote

''Dear Rick and Dan,

 

Thanks for your attention to this issue. I appreciate the consideration you have shown. The last time I was here at Doomworld, years ago, I was mocked and ridiculed by several members and it was so unpleasant an experience that I simply left. All of my contributions to the community were completely overshadowed by a subject I don't wish to discuss even now, and were it not for someone alerting me to the plagiarism thread a couple of days ago, I might never have returned.

 

Dan, I accept your apology. Primarily because you did contact me years later about BoA, which demonstrates  a growth in maturity and character as compared to your not contacting me about UTNT. So I suppose your oversight back then can be chalked up to youth, as you pointed out, and you did the right thing later on.

 

I see from the replies to the topic I started that there are still members here who continue to hold my work in high regard. I want to answer all of their comments, but I'm currently limited to just two posts. I'll try to reply to all of them tomorrow in a single post. In the meantime, feel free to post this response on the thread for them to see.

 

Dan, you were 19 sixteen years ago? So you're 35 now? That's the age I was when I was working on WolfenDoom back in 1998. I'm 57 now. Time sure flies.

 

Laz Rojas''

 

[taufan99]

Ouch, that's not so pleasant to hear about Mr. Rojas' experience back then. I hope more newer people of the fandom start learning about and respecting him.

On the other side, I'm glad this has come much closer into conclusion, if not as a conclusion itself.

[Cardboard Marty]

I have to echo Scuba Steve and many others in this thread, your work is a huge inspiration to me and I don't think I'd be here if I didn't stumble across WolfenDoom and your Mac Wolfenstein page when I was a kid. I appreciate everything you've done and your work still inspires me to this day! Thank you so much Laz.

[LuciferSam86]

I still remember playing Astrostein for the first time with my old XP machine and zdoom 1.22 .

I was blown away for the level of detail, and aesthetics of the wads.