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Any reasons to use Final Doom IWADs instead of Doom 2 IWAD?

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While editing doom maps i can use different IWADs as cores for my maps, but is there difference between Final Doom IWADs (TNT: Evilution and Plutonia) and IWAD of Doom 2?
What content Final Doom IWADs have within them that doom 2 IWAD doesn't and how can i extract it to be used in WAD with Doom 2 IWAD as core?

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Posted (edited)

As far as I know, the Final Doom IWADS for the most part have different textures lumps and sound lumps (and a few other minor things). Using a tool like Slade (https://slade.mancubus.net/index.php?page=about) you can access and work with the contents of wad files. In your case, if you wanted to use stuff from final doom, you would need to locate the different lumps (such as textures and music) inside a final doom IWAD and copy them over to your own PWAD file that will run using the Doom 2 IWAD as a base. 

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I guess I should add onto to this. Once you've acquired the desired textures and what not for your wad, you'll need to make sure the associated IWAD will properly make use of them. With a PWAD (patch wad), you're basically patching/overwriting existing data in an IWAD. There are several ways of doing this, and some details will differ depending on the sourceport(s) you're designing your wad for.

 

I found these resources to be helpful when I first started doom modding:
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Adding_custom_textures

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Adding_custom_music

 

Hope this helps :)

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tnt and plutonia have a few neat textures, you can use slade to extract the textures and import them into your pwad

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5 hours ago, cambreaKer said:

tnt and plutonia have a few neat textures, you can use slade to extract the textures and import them into your pwad

Actually you can't. If you extract a texture from a Final Doom IWAD and place it in a custom PWAD that uses Doom2, you are potentially giving the player a feature (a really small one of course) from a game that he has not paid for.

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4 hours ago, Simomarchi said:

 

Actually you can't. If you extract a texture from a Final Doom IWAD and place it in a custom PWAD that uses Doom2, you are potentially giving the player a feature (a really small one of course) from a game that he has not paid for.

Yea' pretty sure that's illegal.

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4 hours ago, Simomarchi said:

 

Actually you can't. If you extract a texture from a Final Doom IWAD and place it in a custom PWAD that uses Doom2, you are potentially giving the player a feature (a really small one of course) from a game that he has not paid for.

Doesn't the same apply for when you use textures from wolfenstein, Hexen, Heretic or whatever? Many mods do that and there's no issue.

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8 hours ago, Senor500 said:

Doesn't the same apply for when you use textures from wolfenstein, Hexen, Heretic or whatever? Many mods do that and there's no issue.

No idea about that. If we have to use the same idea yes, it is the same problem.

Maybe textures are considered a less important feature, I don't know.

Or maybe there is no problem at all and I'm wrong.

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13 hours ago, Simomarchi said:

Actually you can't. If you extract a texture from a Final Doom IWAD and place it in a custom PWAD that uses Doom2, you are potentially giving the player a feature (a really small one of course) from a game that he has not paid for. 

Pfff...

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On 4/9/2020 at 2:23 PM, Simomarchi said:

I'm wrong.

 

I do not think so. Initially, Revilution included patches of tnt.wad, in order to be usable with doom2.wad. Result:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20171230221305/http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames/REJECTS

 

Fri May 26 20:20:35 EDT 2017 Rejected TNTR.txt because: contains unmodified id software resources (patches)
Fri May 26 20:20:35 EDT 2017 Rejected TNTR.zip because: contains unmodified id software resources (patches)
Sat May 27 19:40:57 EDT 2017 Rejected TNTR.txt because: contains unmodified id software resources (patches)
Sat May 27 19:40:57 EDT 2017 Rejected TNTR.zip because: contains unmodified id software resources (patches)

 

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Just recolour the Final Doom colors ever-so-slightly then use em :) That’s how I usually get around it. Let’s be realistic here: No one said “well, I guess I’m not buying Final Doom anymore now that I’ve played a pwad that had a custom texture from Plutonia”.

 

Jimmy actually took the time a few years ago to port the Plutonia textures over to Doom2 so that others wouldn’t have to:

 

 

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It's even more of a moot point now that id/Bethesda gives Evilution and Plutonia away for free with the latest releases, even if you only buy Doom 1.

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In theory someone might want to make a map that uses a Final Doom IWAD to take advantage of the differences in the way lost souls and teleporters work. I wonder if there any wads that do this? Of course you could also just tell people to force that behaviour with complevels or whatever.

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Posted (edited)

The way I've always understood it is "Don't mess with the maps.."  you can use textures and other resources however, but credit them and where they came from. Aside from that, there's not much point in using Final Doom instead of Doom2. However, it does indeed depend on your intentions as @plums pointed out.

For compatibility reasons though, we all know that Doom2's going to work, so there's that.

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