MM1, MM2 or Requiem?

[P41R47]

I replayed both MM quite recently. And MM2 is the one that left a better taste in my mouth after replaying it. The maps start somewhat hellish and then, after the second chapter, things become really really TNT. Big, really big and atmospheric maps, with a lot of neat architecture and gigantic structures (map27: The Silos) and it have one of the maps that i most love from all that i had played (map28: Corporate Hell). That map is a huge building up to the sky with floors and floors of puzzley fights and interesting sights.

Amazing!

 

MM1 on the other hand, its like a continuation of Doom2's abstract theory of mapping. There are a few doomcute elements here and there, but not much, and the maps, aside that are better designed for co-op, are really abstract in nature and far better than any doom2 map.

 

I'm gonna replay Requiem in a few days and edit this comment based on that, but before that, i will end Doom 404 (@Capellan did you notice that this mapset doesn't show up in the download (beta) and in the doomworld search? It shows only on the /idgames (legacy)) that is kicking my balls deep really hard (i made 13 attempts before beating map20, and i play in HNTR!!!).

Edited May 10, 2020 by P41R47

[DOEL]

MM1 and MM2 come off similar to TNT for me. That is, way too much emphasis on lower tier enemies and spaces are either too packed or too sparse. I also remember MM2 feeling kinda cramped.

 

I felt Requiem was better balanced for my particular tastes but the level design and monster placement does feel dated. (They're all pretty old afterall.)

[Hisymak]

Just finished playing through Requiem yesterday (referring to my post here from a month ago). It was fairly good, but nothing much special that would beat my feelings from MM2. I was a little disappointed about the music (it had completely original soundtrack but some songs repeated in the second half of the megawad - not the main reason). The main problem is I did not find any specific track specifically interesting and memorable, which I would want to replay and listen to just for listening. This happened to me in both MM2 and MM, where are some tracks which I specially like and re-listen to sometimes.

Regarding the levels in Requiem, I was really surprised that there were a few extremely short levers that could be beaten in about 5-10 minutes in the second half of megawad, especially the third decade. This is not something to be commonly seen in other megawads, where the levels tend to be longer and longer for higher map numbers. I liked the Quake-remake secret level.

[Capellan]

9 hours ago, P41R47 said:

I'm gonna replay Requiem in a few days and edit this comment based on that, but before that, i will end Doom 404 (@Capellan did you notice that this mapset doesn't show up in the download (beta) and in the doomworld search? It shows only on the /idgames (legacy)) that is kicking my balls deep really hard (i made 13 attempts before beating map20, and i play in HNTR!!!).

 

I hadn't noticed that specifically, but I have noticed other mapsets not turning up in the download (beta).  I always use the legacy option for that reason.

 

Map20 of Doom 404 is a rough one. Some of the final episode might be even rougher, though!

[GrogLoopy]

MM2 is my favorite megawad of all time I think, I really couldn't get into requiem, I tried MM1 but I haven't committed to playing it

[DSC]

2 hours ago, Hisymak said:

Regarding the levels in Requiem, I was really surprised that there were a few extremely short levers that could be beaten in about 5-10 minutes in the second half of megawad, especially the third decade.

Thats because they were originally levels from Demonfear. @Capellan had to give them away for the Requiem project to become a complete 32-level megawad.

[P41R47]

3 hours ago, Capellan said:

 

I hadn't noticed that specifically, but I have noticed other mapsets not turning up in the download (beta).  I always use the legacy option for that reason.

 

Map20 of Doom 404 is a rough one. Some of the final episode might be even rougher, though!

Yeah, its a shame that it doesn't turn up. Such an amazing work needs more love. I think is by far, the most refined wad in terms of challenge by now. Every map has a different way to deploy the odds, and that without lose the theme

I reach map26, and yes, i can't exit the starting room hahaha. I will find my way around, i'm almost fully stocked of ammo, but i don't want to rely much on the BFG.

 

You worked on Memento Mori 2 and Requiem, which one do you like the most?

[Capellan]

26 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

You worked on Memento Mori 2 and Requiem, which one do you like the most?

 

Definitely MM2. It's a much more coherent package.

 

[FrancisT218]

On 4/10/2020 at 3:55 AM, Firedust said:

MM2 > Requiem > MM1

 

MM1 didn't age all that well, and Requiem has those small filler maps.

 

My opinion too, however those small 'fillers' in Requiem were by no means boring! In fact they probably played better than some of the bigger, 'proper' levels. Lol Sir Robin, Requiem is NOT a 6-star wad, not even in 1997...AV blew all three these wads out of the water, though. The only place it did not improve is there's no brand new OST.

 

(AV >>>>>>) MM2 > Requiem >> MM1 (at least solo)

[smeghammer]

Memento Mori for me. Mainly because it was probably the first megawad I played that made a lasting impression.

[P41R47]

On 5/12/2020 at 11:55 PM, FrancisT18 said:

 

My opinion too, however those small 'fillers' in Requiem were by no means boring! In fact they probably played better than some of the bigger, 'proper' levels. Lol Sir Robin, Requiem is NOT a 6-star wad, not even in 1997...

I totally agree. Adam Windsor maps that were planed for Demonfear but ended in here are really good maps per ce. I would love to see if Adam had some Demonfear outtakes or different versions of those maps as they are really fun to play.
I ended replaying Requiem for the third time in 20 years, and yes, it is really a mixed bag of wonders.
No map is perfect and no map is crap at all.

But it isn't the megawad it wanted to be.
Its not Doom final swan's song by no means

And as someone also said in this thread, it will be a forever beta of something that could be awesome. 

[Murdoch]

Requiem was the first megawad I played when I got online in the late 90s. I knew of individual maps being available but the idea of a full 32 map pack with custom textures, effectively a new Doom game, was amazing to me at the time. And the soundtrack was awesome, especially the "Hunter's Lair" track. So if only for pure nostalgic reasons Requiem gets my vote.

[PasokonDeacon]

The one with The Devil's Coterie.

I have fond memories of all three, but MM2 stands out simply for having the best balance of short and long maps, all with generally enough polish to make them fun and replayable without siphoning the mappers' quirks out from them entirely. Requiem may have more impressive vanilla mapping tricks and gritty environments (courtesy of 5 Years of Doom's idol mappers Keranen and Czerwonka), and the original MM gets points for best representing the daring and enthusiastic mapping spirit of the mid-1990s (before quite a few of the contributors moved on to games like Quake and Build Engine titles, etc.). Still, MM2 kind of does it all, together with cool new textures and excellent music as always from Klem and Tolwyn.

Also, Dystopia 3-style map designs actively frustrate me, even though I know how to beat them with minimal issue. Keranen and Czerwonka definitely earned their place in the canon for pushing vanilla mapping tricks, but I generally dislike the former's Doom maps (much hotter on his Quake work--you know, the game where you can get away with bullet sponges) and can't muster a lot of love for the latter's. Requiem plays quite a bit nicer when skipping most of their maps, but then I'm playing a knowingly curated experience that doesn't really represent Requiem as it was and is for most players.

[Final Verdict]

 

Memento Mori 1. It was the first WAD I remember playing back in the 90's. MM2 was better designed I think, but nostalgia means I'll always lean towards MM1. They were both fantastic for the time and I spent many a late night on both of them.

 

I can't really comment on Requiem as I haven't played it since the early 2000's or something. I barely remember it, but I vaguely remember enjoying it.

[Maximum Matt]

I just gotta say, I'm on level 14 of Requiem (takin' my time, son), and two things jump out at me:

• The most usage of insta-door openings I've seen since, well, E4M7
• And some serious ammo rationing.  I mean god damn, give a bit of leeway to someone with bad aim!!!

[Andromeda]

1 hour ago, Maximum Matt said:

I just gotta say, I'm on level 14 of Requiem (takin' my time, son), and two things jump out at me:

• The most usage of insta-door openings I've seen since, well, E4M7
• And some serious ammo rationing.  I mean god damn, give a bit of leeway to someone with bad aim!!!

Wait until you get to MAP23/24 ;)

[Maximum Matt]

Great.