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How will DOOM 6 work?

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, xdarkmasterx said:

 

And I fully support him doing so. If he took popular criticisms into account the game probably wouldn't have jumping or vertical mouselook in it XD.

 

I get where you’re going with that but DOOM 4 / 2016 had both of those things.  I don’t feel like DOOM 4 is over-designed and exclusionary.  DOOM Eternal on the other hand...  I’ve gone into specifics before but I don’t want to derail this thread.  My general view is that DOOM Eternal has some really high highs and some really low lows, more so than any other game in the series.  The Ancient Gods DLC failed to address the lows and in fact, doubled down on them.  I brought it up here because I feel like Eternal’s narrative suffered from the same design process.  I wouldn’t say the story is one of the worst aspects of the game, but it’s definitely all over the place and feels largely like a retcon.  I also feel like the ending of TAG limits where they can go from here (without more retcons).

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My gut is the next Doom will be some sort of reboot/remake of Doom 64 similar to the general trajectory they began with Doom (2016) and continued with Doom Eternal.  What that looks like, and how the next Doom will resemble a “monster truck” as opposed to a “Ferrari” as Hugo has described Doom Eternal, is anyone’s guess.

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I don't think Hugo should be fired from making another game.

I feel like what should happen is a spin off doing its own things in terms of lore and art style, so we could put that side by side with another Doom game to see which did it better, even without preveting the other from keep going.

 

It's part of why i think it'd be more fair if Doom had that "comic book" aspect of different versions of a universe/setting instead of trying to have one ultimate universe when it includes older games from very different visions or the vision you're working on sort of changes what you've tried to establish.

 

The notion of "this sounds cool on paper" and whether or not some of this stuff is aiming that much for the "cool factor" also comes to mind.

Like yeah, i can see that "different versions of the setting" suggestion leading to more milking or some bad ideas, but it can depend on WHO is behind it and the limits.

At least because it sort of happen with previous games never establishing a true "universe" or the fact that the fanbase already interferes with the games' legacy or identity, with varying results.

 

The "DOOM UNIVERSE" is what people made it out to be and that's why Doom is Eternal in the first place, whether you're looking at mods, fanart, fanfic or discussion.

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Posted (edited)

@whatup876

 

Oh, I’m definitely not advocating for Hugo Martin to lose his job!  Like I said, I don’t think DOOM 4 would have happened without him.  (And I honestly love DOOM 4!) I just think he should have less creative control in the future based on the direction he took Eternal in.  One hand in the pie is fine.  Two is too many.

 

As for side stories, I’m definitely all for that!  I would love to see a game that focuses on one or more of the characters introduced in  Quake III Arena and Quake Champions.  I think it’s a shame that Crash didn’t make some kind of appearance in Eternal, especially given all of the references to the other games.  (I’ll be equally disappointed if we don’t get to play as Wrack in the eventual Quake 1 sequel.)  Original IP would be good too!

 

In terms of keeping each game’s universe distinct, I’d be okay with that but not for the DOOM series.  The multi-verse is now canon, and it’d be a shame to see DOOM 3 not get its due.  That said, I’m fine with the ties to the other games being kept lose.  

 

Like it’d be neat to see how the Soul Cube wound up in Eternal’s universe or if the Artifact in Resurrection of Evil really is the heart of the Icon of Sin, albeit in a smaller and weakened state.  Hell, I could even see the Soul Cube or the Artifact being used as a plot device to explain away why one of the DOOM 3 protagonists now has Slayer-like powers.  (I’d prefer not to of course! :p)

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I recall confirmation of a multiverse in Doom but there still being one Hell, even though Hell now has a lot of things that makes it different from previous games.

So in a way, the thing with expanding a universe is that "rules" are being added, even if they sort of contradict what was previously present or at least expected.

Because if one were to look at certain classic textures or some designs, you'd think Hell has a lot of potential for surrealism that could even suit the "cool factor".

But from explanations of how demons work/are made, to the chittin heavy aesthetic, to specially Immora, it seems Hell in itself has some "rules".

That makes me think there's not a lot of abstraction unless you walk away from said rules.

 

Like, if you're the kind of guy who makes memes about Doomguy being the most epic videogame character, you'd probably want to analyze new Doom by comparing some things to previous games or even other games involving demons or armored marines.

 

And even stuff like how Doomguy's face currently looks comes to mind.

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I don't mind a change in aesthetics from game to game so long as it still gets the point across.  But you're absolutely right about Doomguy's face.  His appearance helps shape our perception of what game he's from.  If his hair is black hair, he's from DOOM 3.  If it's brown, he's from DOOM I and II.  Things get even murkier when you remove those zig-zag side-burns.
 

I feel like DOOM Eternal's art style was a good compromise between DOOM 4's look and the original games.  None of the colors were super saturated but they weren't dark either.  Not that dark is bad!  I just mean nothing from DOOM I or DOOM II would look too out of place in Eternal's universe.  (The dopefish kind of stands out but it's still not as bad as Quake III's!)

The level design was also pretty varied in Eternal so I'm not too worried about DOOM 6's future in that respect.  That said, I would love to see more otherworldly stuff!  Abstraction and surrealism are welcome too!  I can't remember if it was DOOM 3 or RoE but there was a level near the end of the game that literally phased in and out Hell.  It was utterly brilliant, and I'd love to see something like that return

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Posted (edited)

I always thought an ideal art style for Doom could have been cel-shaded, to make it truly cartoony (but in a cool gritty comic style) and perhaps do a better job at "remastering" old designs, specially if Doomguy's face gets those "Adrian Carmack proportions" like the flat top of the head even BJ had.

I also think with comparing 90's designs to 2010/20's, there's how the Lost Soul went from basic human but horned skull to that detailed chittin theme and how even the UAC is now super futuristic and makes classic UAC look very plastic and outdated.

It's obviously a matter of trends, production techniques, graphics etc.

Or seeing an art style/aesthetic as a "language".

It's like asking 10 different artists to draw fantasy knights and you have some nerdy judge go "this reminds me of Zelda, this reminds me of WoW, this reminds me of Dark Souls" and so on.

 

With surrealism, it also leads to a lot of creative and unpredictable opportunities, even in gameplay.

But at the same time, if a demon has a truly complex design, it could be hard to animate movement and glory kills.

Maybe if id makes another turn based game like the RPG games, that could be an excuse for said weirder demons.

 

Anyway, speaking of weird ideas:

I used to thing a demon based on an upper body could be cool like that RoE Hell Guardian boss but also that one Realm667 Baron in Scythe 2.

Then i remembered the Loper from RTCW and imagined a demon jumping around as he uses two massive arms because he has no legs.

 

It'd be interesting to see bleeding as an enemy mechanic.

Like a second phase where it starts spewing blood as a dangerous hazard but also a sign it's dying after a period of time.

I think QCDE had a character with a damaging blood ability.

 

I also feel like a lot can be done with Cyberdemon for it being like a "Bowser of Doom".

Like him having extra forms/variants, one "giga" form where he gets to be bigger and more grotesque looking or even more attacks (even if some taken from other demons) for the sake of movement potential, both as a super boss/enemy but also if he somehow was ever playable.

 

Like, if they make the "super/double" whatever cut 64 version of the Cyberdemon into a real thing, one of its main gimmicks could be using 2 different attacks at the same time for the fact it has two cannons, while both cyber hooves allow it to fly/float with rockets and have a slam attack like Barons.

(or using the fire coming from the bottom of the hooves as an attack to create fire underneath, like that one mod that gave a lava drawing thing to the Doom Hunter)

 

But its cannons can perform attacks beyond the Tyrant/Cybie moveset (slow single rockets, rockets barrage, 2016 horizontal line shape projectile, quick laser, falling rockets, homing floor fire, stomp) like plasma shots barrage like an Arachnotron, cybermanc acid pools, grenades, energy shield walls, classic Rev slow moving homing rockets, something with a classic Manc-like pattern like a double fireball/rocket pattern, flamethrower, Tesla rocket and a few more. (almost like a jack-of-all-trades super heavy type)

You can destroy one of its cannons and weaken the other, having to perform only one ability at a time and no longer capable of doing abilities that require both cannons, while certain attacks are weakened. (you can't destroy BOTH cannons but at least one can be made weaker)

And destroying/weakening the hooves will result in worse air traversal.

The idea of it having a lot of attacks is to sell it as one of the more advanced cybernetic demons.

Sounds too much on paper.

 

And giving Cybie other forms isn't just the Harbinger of Doom or the 64 red/super concept: it would also be cool to see a fully metallic/robotic/Terminator Cybie with shoulder guns or a floating upper health of the Harbinger with iron chains and a ghostly form.

Like having these 5/6 forms as different phases with various attacks, even borrowed abilities from the 2016 Hell Guard or IOS.

And then make reference to "is Doomguy related to BJ?" or the Cabal storyline from some of the Master Levels implying that Cybie was once turned into a Doomguy clone after being screwed by an asshole Archie. (and that black throne of his in Bloodsea Keep)

This sounds like too much for a particular demon but the Cyberdemon always felt like the most iconic demon besides the Caco and Revenant.

Specially the basic idea of cybernetic minotaur with flesh and metal, a basic idea yet good enough for a series like Doom.

Like how the classic logo has that contrast between orange bricks and blue pipes or the SKINTEK texture.

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The Freds and the Newbies from the novels were pretty cool. New games could flesh them out as the new bad guys. 

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I have a theory they will try to connect Quake with DOOM in someway, that theory is based on nothing.

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Posted (edited)

Seeing more DL concept makes me think they never really went with the "evil Doomguy" aspect aside from his face.

It's weird in a way, because maybe they assumed "copy pasting Doomguy's armor and guns would be lazy" even if that could mean a new opportunity that hasn't really been tried in Doom before.

It reminds me when people thought Heisenberg in RE8 was going to use his Magneto abilities and hammer as a boss but instead he turns into that giant thing.

Or people expectng a boss out of Songbird in Bioshock Infinite.

 

Also, more of Gregor Punchatz working on the demons models, this time including the box cover art one.


 

Spoiler

 

Also, doing the sin of bringing Smash here but:

Something i usually say is that simply adding new gameplay stuff is always "expanding the Doom universe" and it took 2016/Eternal for Doomguy to have more tools to play with.

If there ever would be a sixth Smash game for the next Nintendo console (presumably after Sakurai and his team take a long break and all), maybe id could continue to experiment with Doom and come up with new things, because i think there's still a lot of things that can be fresh to Doom as a franchise.

Because it took a long time for Doomguy to even have more interesting attack set potential and it took a Switch port to garner any demand for him to be in a major crossover.

Just saying.

 

 

16 hours ago, Coopersville said:

The Freds and the Newbies from the novels were pretty cool. New games could flesh them out as the new bad guys.  

Adding aliens to Doom canon makes me wonder if that means making most of demons/Hell "less sci-fi" or at least "more demonic" to contrast the actual alienoids.

Stuff like toning down the chittin in demon designs or getting more creative/unpredictable with Hell's bizarre/supernatural nature and with designs that feel like a mix of SMT and Wayne Barlowe or whatever.

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On 4/12/2020 at 12:24 AM, User Name said:

Doom 6 will be another reboot

Doom 2016 was not a reboot tho

 

 

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If there ever is another attempt at a HUB (be it Fortress of Doom or something new like an expanded ARC ship or something else), i wonder if there could be more easter egg/silly rooms. like a garage with Doomguy's other mechs and cars like a Ferrari.

 

7 hours ago, The Doommer said:

Doom 2016 was not a reboot tho 

 

 

I mean, different art style, gameplay style, different devs, the "just the series title" name... only thing making it a sequel is the connections to 64, so it's a soft reboot at best.

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There's a very simple way to keep the Slayer arc going while still addressing the criticisms of modern Doomguy being too OP: You know how he went back into the Divinity Machine at the end of TAG2? Just make up some shit about how he intentionally debuffed himself because he's sick of being treated as a god.

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I can see some weird logic/potential for "another universe was created and Hell changed again but you're still the same Slayer, except DESlayered, so you're another not-entirely-super-strong-Doomguy".

With how the Slayer is designed, i wonder if he could have a similar description as Superman where he does things "at a Paul Bunyan scale". (Grant Morrison said something like this)

Thought it also makes one wonder what kind of gameplay mechanics and features would fit the Slayer version of Doomguy.

 

Speaking of which, was thinking of some weird takes about lore and thinking of the difference between the S in Superman's suit being just an S for Superman vs it actually being a Krypton symbol that means hope.

Though a lot of Doom lore seems to be focused on a more recent audience, since the people hyperfocused on wall textures and obscure are a minority.

Not the case with Disney Star Wars that technically tried to get older SW fans, but the minute you have guys spending too much time in making Wookieepedia articles for shit like "water" or "bread", it's when you know Disney had no change with these guys.

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On 10/1/2021 at 11:27 AM, KainXavier said:

@whatup876

 

Oh, I’m definitely not advocating for Hugo Martin to lose his job!  Like I said, I don’t think DOOM 4 would have happened without him.  (And I honestly love DOOM 4!) I just think he should have less creative control in the future based on the direction he took Eternal in.  One hand in the pie is fine.  Two is too many.

 

As for side stories, I’m definitely all for that!  I would love to see a game that focuses on one or more of the characters introduced in  Quake III Arena and Quake Champions.  I think it’s a shame that Crash didn’t make some kind of appearance in Eternal, especially given all of the references to the other games.  (I’ll be equally disappointed if we don’t get to play as Wrack in the eventual Quake 1 sequel.)  Original IP would be good too!

 

In terms of keeping each game’s universe distinct, I’d be okay with that but not for the DOOM series.  The multi-verse is now canon, and it’d be a shame to see DOOM 3 not get its due.  That said, I’m fine with the ties to the other games being kept lose.  

 

Like it’d be neat to see how the Soul Cube wound up in Eternal’s universe or if the Artifact in Resurrection of Evil really is the heart of the Icon of Sin, albeit in a smaller and weakened state.  Hell, I could even see the Soul Cube or the Artifact being used as a plot device to explain away why one of the DOOM 3 protagonists now has Slayer-like powers.  (I’d prefer not to of course! :p)

Doom: Eternal is probably the best FPS I've ever played. If this Hugo guy had creative control in it, they should give him a raise.

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Here's 2 ideas: Power-downs and acknowledgement of terrain.

The first is like those purple poison mushrooms in Mario, where certain items are essentially opposites to power ups and you have to avoid them.

If there were certain types of objects like chests that randomize items (like a Doom version of question mark blocks from Mario), that could be an excuse for some luck factor. (but like specific stuff that is not as needed as traditional pick ups)

 

As for terrain, it could be small water puddles that could be electrocuted, Barons ripping apart giant rocks from rocky grounds or something allowing ghost-like enemies/projectiles going across certain walls.

Or some more creative interactions between an enemy/projectile/attack/weapon and a certain type of floor/ceiling/wall.

Could be an excuse for it to make more diverse areas and even reference certain classic textures.

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On 9/29/2021 at 9:02 AM, Azuris said:

Maybe Eternal, the DLC or even 2016 are just again a Trickery of the Icon of Sin, the Mother Demon or even the Devil itself.

 

isnt the dark lord the devil?

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22 hours ago, Levi said:

sad TAG2 debunked more doom

not really doom guy is just on hold

 

i belive they will focus on other ips for a while before we see a new doom game

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In a way, i feel like it's easier to make a Doom 6 than Quake 5 since a lot of ideas that could work for Quake (or were from Quake to begin with) ended up in Doom, specially the Night Sentinel.

This is mostly because after the saturation of both modern military FPS and cartoony "hero shooters", we have games going old school and getting creative with that, be it indie games or AAA titles. the "boomer shooter" term.

 

Same goes for some other games. i can see Heretic/Hexen being dismissed as "generic fantasy" before a reboot affects the visuals and gameplay to make it even more trend heavy. (specially because even if certain trends are in Doom, you can also think of certain others that technically aren't in Doom)

Like, a lot of these series started with limited settings and most of their gameplay/tech features were based on innovation and a case of "what wasn't done right now" at the time, which is also what makes Quake a "Doom 3" in the same way that Doom in itself is a "Wolfenstein 3D 2".

 

I feel like by making new Doom stuff that has features you can trace back to other shooters, you could at least make it seem that Doom is tributing those classics, while also finding ways to keep Doom fresh.

Even if this also comes off as "wow, new cool features for Doom", i feel like it would be much harder figuring out how to reboot a certain series.

Obviously, Doom may never truly "return to the roots" to some degree and its identity could end up changing a few more times, but most of the time it made the series associated with experimentation and offered a lot of things people liked.

Even at its worse, it wasn't disgustingly bad and at the very least, made people wish for more or somethings to be done better. (as opposed to literal loss of hope)

But in a way, you can think of Doom being a successor to Hexen or Turok if those never return or even ROTT if you weren't that happy with the 2013 remake.

 

And as for lore? i dunno, it's also easier to give it a different lore instead of adding more retcons.

Even with crossovers, some might find it weird if a Shambler or Iron Lich (or at least vaguely inspired enemies) show up in a Doom game, but i know i'd find it cool.

Edited by whatup876

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21 hours ago, whatup876 said:

In a way, i feel like it's easier to make a Doom 6 than Quake 5 since a lot of ideas that could work for Quake (or were from Quake to begin with) ended up in Doom, specially the Night Sentinel.

Agree. I love Doom Eternals gameplay but it always feels like "Doom II Arena", that's nothing bad because I love both franchises.

 

Doom 2016s gameplay had a strong Doom 3 vibe, at least in the very beginning, before you enter The Foundry. 

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Ended up thinking a bit about this today after watching a video about how Eternal's bosses steadily escalate the stakes as you go from the first Doom Hunter all the way to Davoth. Story at this point has decided to let Doomguy get some well-deserved rest, but what could bring him back out of the box that feels like a fitting progression?

 

I welcome any corrections on whatever story/lore I got wrong, but what got me thinking is what TAG 2 told us --- and didn't tell us --- about the Wraiths, where Primevals like Davoth and (I guess) Doomguy came from, and what's going on with that "Engines of Creation" thing that supposedly exists outside Doom's multiverse. Clearly there is even more going on than what we saw or read about; travel beyond the mortal realms, beyond Urdak, even Hell itself, and who knows what, or who, is out there.

 

Now you might be thinking, "Whoa wait, are you suggesting eldritch beings from the outer void or something? Isn't that outside the Doom Slayer's job description of tearing demons in half?" Well here's the thing: killing Davoth may have stopped Hell from being able to invade other worlds, but at no point did anyone suggest that it was gone now, just contained, hopefully forever. All those demons, all that power, is still there, and if someone, Vega forbid, bridged a way to/from that world they could use that power to once again wreak havoc. But who would even have the ability to do that? Surely it would have to be someone at least on Davoth's level, if not greater, and aside from maybe Vega and Doomguy there's no one like that in the multiverse. But outside of it...

 

Perhaps an unknown presence within the Engines took an interest in the worlds Davoth created. What the Dark Lord accomplished was fascinating in the early stages, yet frustrating in the ways his obsessions held it back. Surely anyone could handle it better, but as long as his influence over it persisted one could only watch and wait. Eons passed, until the time came that Davoth was no more, defeated by the very being at the heart of his master plan. A fitting end.

 

With this turn of events the multiverse has grown quiet. The realm once known as Jekkad stagnates without its creator, more isolated than ever; the time has come. There is some resistance at first, but ultimately Hell bends its knee to the strongest, and there's no debate even among their oldest nobility that this outsider is beyond anything they have ever seen. Changes to the realm proceed quickly from there. Not as many as initially thought were needed, as Davoth's designs make for an admittedly good base, but still there remain many areas for improvement. Ways to make these so-called demons stronger, smarter, faster, overall more effective at their tasks.

 

Inevitably someone will notice Hell's growing presence. Whether it is Davoth's first creations, or someone in the mortal realms, who is to say. But by the time they do, it will be too late.

 

Hell will have been remade, forged by the Father but perfected by the Mother. And the rest of creation will follow shortly.

 

 

tl;dr Would be really cool if they mixed the unanswered lore questions in TAG 2 with the fan idea of Doom 6 being a reboot of 64, and made its version of the Mother Demon a being on Davoth's level who takes over Hell and makes the demons even worse. And since Hell is under new management, when the Doom Slayer awakens he finds his foes have taken on forms that are still recognizable in some ways but very much not in others.

Edited by kawadec

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If there is another (or more) leader(s) of Hell, i hope it's still related to or from Hell itself.

Besides maybe Urdak, Hell is the primary antagonist force of the series (since it's technically the embodiment of evil) and the series always presented its demons and their home as a weird mix of ideas ranging from fantasy to sci-fi elements to occasional references to Hell related concepts or mythos, even if not that deeply.

Hell in Doom always had potential for a lot of things.

 

They could always make it about some sort of "back up" leaders of Hell in case Davoth dies, that not even the father was aware of. (or some "failed creations" of Davoth that were given rise out of pure will and hatred)

And if Doomguy did lost his powers, that could lead to new gameplay opportunities and maybe a portrayal based on his struggles and sufferings.

Like, maybe we can finally get a Guts-like Doomguy or even do stuff in the realm of "getting disfigured and completely bruised, but still standing and laughing to angry demons thinking "why isn't he dead yet?"

 

I wonder if a new Mother Demon will use its fucked up back/spin as a weak point.

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On 4/11/2020 at 2:43 PM, famicommander said:

I think the next "Doom game" we might see will be some sort of follow up to Sigil from Romero.

I'd want this more then a new Doom game tbh. Doom Eternal was so damn good for me I wouldn't want ID to try to top it and fail. Some new Romero stuff would be awesome with the map editors and tools we have now.

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On 11/10/2021 at 7:00 PM, whatup876 said:

In a way, i feel like it's easier to make a Doom 6 than Quake 5 since a lot of ideas that could work for Quake (or were from Quake to begin with) ended up in Doom, specially the Night Sentinel.

This is mostly because after the saturation of both modern military FPS and cartoony "hero shooters", we have games going old school and getting creative with that, be it indie games or AAA titles. the "boomer shooter" term.

 

Same goes for some other games. i can see Heretic/Hexen being dismissed as "generic fantasy" before a reboot affects the visuals and gameplay to make it even more trend heavy. (specially because even if certain trends are in Doom, you can also think of certain others that technically aren't in Doom)

Like, a lot of these series started with limited settings and most of their gameplay/tech features were based on innovation and a case of "what wasn't done right now" at the time, which is also what makes Quake a "Doom 3" in the same way that Doom in itself is a "Wolfenstein 3D 2".

 

I feel like by making new Doom stuff that has features you can trace back to other shooters, you could at least make it seem that Doom is tributing those classics, while also finding ways to keep Doom fresh.

Even if this also comes off as "wow, new cool features for Doom", i feel like it would be much harder figuring out how to reboot a certain series.

Obviously, Doom may never truly "return to the roots" to some degree and its identity could end up changing a few more times, but most of the time it made the series associated with experimentation and offered a lot of things people liked.

Even at its worse, it wasn't disgustingly bad and at the very least, made people wish for more or somethings to be done better. (as opposed to literal loss of hope)

But in a way, you can think of Doom being a successor to Hexen or Turok if those never return or even ROTT if you weren't that happy with the 2013 remake.

 

You said something pretty spot on in the other thread, about "not only Quake having a messy identity" - boy does it ever, even as early as the original trilogy and then becoming the "messiest" after Quake 4 and Wars. With what both of the newer Dooms have established, I think the biggest remaining idea of "Quake" revolves around multiplayer - but there's Champions, it serves itself fine as a platform for multiplayer and I don't see it being in anyone's best interest to kill it. They might be stewing up some really grand ideas of what "Quake" could mean regarding a player vs. environment approach, but if it's just going to come off as "rustier new Doom" then I think I'd rather they just further expand the current Doom universe.


 

Quote

 

And as for lore? i dunno, it's also easier to give it a different lore instead of adding more retcons.

Even with crossovers, some might find it weird if a Shambler or Iron Lich (or at least vaguely inspired enemies) show up in a Doom game, but i know i'd find it cool.

 

 

I'd agree, and then some: He could run into Ranger and I'd be fine with it.

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I feel like if a new Quake or Heretic is going to be "Doom Eternal but slightly different", then it's easier to make those into expansions for DE that just happen to have a different setting, because of what they'll use as a gameplay base plus stuff like the movement, power ups and even inventory being there.

Wolfenstein is the lucky one for having a WW2 related setting and its current gameplay being more "modern and tactical", so it has a easier chance at being its own seperate series.

Meanwhile, Doom absorbed some things from other franchises, it might as well be their platform for life support.

Even 2016's hologram makes you think of Duke Nukem, so that's another series Doom could be a successor to. (imagine an enemy that can either shrink you down or jump at your face lol)

 

I guess maybe Quake and the Serpent Rider saga crossing with Doom may or may not lead to that "idverse" having a stronger presence in canon, even if to me, the more interesting part is mashing different gameplay concepts/features/mechanics for a true gaming crossover experience.

If that is the case, i hope even Heretic 2, Hexen 2 and Quake's expansions have some of their material show up like extra baddies to right, guns and items to toy with and even level gimmicks for platforming and exploration.

 

Speaking of Romero, not sure if they'll consider SIGIL canon (and let John release those assets) but i'm surprised they didn't bring backt he evil eye prop, since that could work as a shootable switch. (or even that one in E3M1 attached to the wall)

 

Also, going back to that level terraing awareness idea i had:

* UAC sentries shooting demons at first until certain types possess/manipulate it and make it shoot you instead.

* Flame belch melting ice like walls or floors.

* Lost souls hitting waterfalls and dying because the fire is put out.

* Energy walls/floors that can be used as shields or explore with plasma, even if you can't do certain secret hunting with them.

* Some enemies eating flesh from flesh walls/grounds to gain health.

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Anyway, just noticed this concept art:

More on an "heart" key for the SGN: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kDZ4zz

Stuff about SGN switches and floating Hell towers: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/rAWRB2

Computer area map stuff, one in Maykr theme: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/GamNoa

ARC battleship planes: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/w6x8V9

That one Immora Hell ship: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/v2olL6

More Hell ship, a lot of detail i don't think could possibly be seen ingame: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/rAQKGa

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I've had this idea that the UAC does more research on teleport technology and they find realms worse than hell that even hell doesn't know about. iD would have to be super imaginative but I think it could be pretty cool to come up with creatures worse than the OG demons.

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In a way, that's a weird idea because Hell is somewhat of a trademark element of Doom as "the ultimate evil place" and with its different aesthetics, any other evil dimension could be a different layer/portion/segment/dimension of Hell besides maybe Urdak.

Unless those realms are still part of Hell in a way that as a concept, Hell is abstract enough to even confuse itself.

But like, Hell always had that potential of a "eggs in the same basket" where different horrors and monsters can coexist and be from the same concept, since even the first games give the impression of different concepts mixing.

Even Urdak's aesthetic could expand a bit more for variety and to sell its true powers.

 

I also thought of an alternate lore for Immora: It's a paradise for the most evil people and sinners, meaning any regular human you found is an actual very evil person (or even a copy/demonic corruption that was empowered compared to regular zombies), which also makes it seem that bad people that die are the ones getting rewarded and good people are either tortured or become Argent energy.

Like something that twists a certain concept associated with religion and morals, even if it wasn't always the case until Hell got too powerful or something.

Maybe in a different game that doesn't directly retcon 2016/Eternal/TAG to avoid more retcons?

I do recall some lore stating that everyone that dies goes to Hell and "pure souls" become soul energy, some of it later taken to Urdak.

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