My level has a bait and switch that keeps you from getting 100%. Remove it?

[MatthewPhillips]

I added a bait and switch near the very end of my levels and after doing a playthrough of them all (to try and get 100%) it occurred to me that some players might not like this.
 

Spoiler

It's a set of invisibility spheres that get squashed and you cannot access them. 

Is there a way to

Spoiler

have them get "deleted" somehow from the map one they get squashed,

so that they don't count towards the item #?

 

[MatthewPhillips]

My other options of course 

1. Remove it altogether

2. Keep it, but then

Spoiler

add another way to UNSQUISH them so that you CAN access them.

But then it's gotta be made to be worth it somehow, and not annoying.

And since

Spoiler

it's 2 invisibility spheres, and you have no use for 2 of them at this point,

maybe I need to make one something else?
 

[Phobus]

If you're mapping for a port with scripting, such as GZDoom, you can remove those Invisibility Spheres after they're squashed. If you're mapping for something like prboom+ (or the original game), you'll have to decide whether you want the effect or not. I don't think people are too worried about 100% items anyway, so I'd say leave it.

[baja blast rd.]

Most people don't care about 100% items anywhere as much as kills/secrets, so it seems fine on that count. Although I'd set it up so the player's attention is guaranteed to be on it as it happens, so they know why they can't get 100% (well, so the effect registers too :P). 

[cambreaKer]

you can leave it but you can also make a hidden entrance to the invisibility spheres so that the player can get 100% items

[Big Ol Billy]

If you’re using a simpler format (Boom, limit-removing, vanilla) there are some easy low-tech solutions: use dehacked to remove the item% flag from the invisibility spheres entirely, or replace an unused decoration with a invis sphere sprite to create a non-functional “decoy” that looks like the real thing.

[MatthewPhillips]

Thanks all, I designed this for plain old vanilla Doom 2 with no extras, so I will find a "non-code" solution.

So far I'd say 2 are for, and 2 are against not letting people get "100%". Next person to comment either way is the tie breaker!!!

[DSC]

I'm with @cambreaKer on this one: with would be pretty cool to have them as a very well-hidden secret.

[WowozuelaSpammer]

You can use Whacked to change the item to say "does not affect item %"

this will make it so that you don't loose item percentage if you miss it

[MatthewPhillips]

1 minute ago, DSC said:

I'm with @cambreaKer on this one: with would be pretty cool to have them as a very well-hidden secret.

Hmmmm… ok, I leave them in! But now I have to figure out how to make this work as a secret.

Anyone interested in trying out my levels and giving feedback on how you would do it?

They're part of the very end of the level

Spoiler

and when you walk in you basically get closed in with the final boss. You're up high on ledges above the final boss

so I have to think about this for a bit. Hmmmmm.

[Jello]

I'm not a completionist by any means. If I get 100%, I get it. But I do like to hunt for things, if I can't find a secret or item, ok. If I found out a map had made 100% completion impossible, I would be irritated. I would suggest finding a workaround.

[MatthewPhillips]

6 minutes ago, Jello said:

I'm not a completionist by any means. If I get 100%, I get it. But I do like to hunt for things, if I can't find a secret or item, ok. If I found out a map had made 100% completion impossible, I would be irritated. I would suggest finding a workaround.

Working on it, thanks! Already have an idea :)  

[MatthewPhillips]

HEYYY I fixed it! Made it into a little secret. And it plays good.

Anyone want to try it out?
 

[MatthewPhillips]

OMG though the folks that run http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames/ might start getting annoyed with me. I've already submitted my map 3 times in the last 2 weeks, and this would be the 4th time! 

[cambreaKer]

you don't need to submit the map to idgames archive, just upload it as an attachment here or in some other website (like google drive)

[MatthewPhillips]

11 minutes ago, cambreaKer said:

you don't need to submit the map to idgames archive, just upload it as an attachment here or in some other website (like google drive)

Oh I know, I've been hosting it on my own server all along, but I thought it would be nice to have it on some kind of semi-"official" place like the Gamers.org archive. So that it would eventually (?) appear under the Downloads section of Doomworld.com and people could try it out and write reviews about it. Is that how that works?

In the meantine:
 

DOWNLOAD MY WAD!
https://www.gonorthdesign.com/WRATH2020.zip
 

"Thy Wrath Unleashed"
Game: DOOM 2
Map #: MAP01, MAP02, MAP03 (3 levels)
Designed for Single Player
Difficulty Settings: All skill levels supported

First level is quite large, 20-25+ minutes average.
Second level is fairly short and fast.
Third level is in between with harder battles and it's where I experimented the most with traps and secrets.
 

[TheNoob_Gamer]

2 hours ago, MatthewPhillips said:

So that it would eventually (?) appear under the Downloads section of Doomworld.com and people could try it out and write reviews about it. Is that how that works?

Yes and no. The Downloads section is broken right now. /idgames is also meant for bigger/finalized projects, not WIP stuff.

[Lila Feuer]

I feel more lenient with monsters because realistically in a survival situation you should only kill what gets in the way, both due to ammo conservation as well as health preservation. I do however, want as many items as possible, and that is possible through the discovery of secrets.

[MatthewPhillips]

1 hour ago, Lila Feuer said:

I feel more lenient with monsters because realistically in a survival situation you should only kill what gets in the way

 

That is an interesting concept and I’m wondering if many people have explored this concept of DOOM as a “survival” game; certainly Doom 3 did, but have many Doom/Doom2 WADs been designed as a “survival” game?

 

I find a lot of WADs tend to lean on overwhelming you and making you fight ridiculous odds, often forcing you to reload saves many times to get through certain sections.

 

But how about WADs that consider every single piece of ammo and every monster hit point?

 

I have certainly tried to balance my WAD so that there is not too much ammo or items, but not to the point of real “survival”.

 

That might be a cool idea for me to explore if I ever start a new project.