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DangerousDave

Do you think the science of the Doom genre should be explored more?

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A lot of places and stuff try to figure out the real-world science behind notable video games, though I'm unaware of how much research has gone into how Doom science would fare in the real world. For example:

 

-How much energy would it take for the BFG to work? (And could it shoot a hole in Mars?)

 

-How do the Spectres become invisible seemingly without tech?

 

It's interesting to think about how Doom science would translate into real-world science, and I personally think that it should be explored.

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Hi
No I don't think the science of the Doom genre should be explored more.

 

I hope I could help answer your question

Salutations!

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Posted (edited)

No, it shouldn't. It's a video game, it doesn't need to make sense, and nobody needs threads in which people are trying to figure out how a plasma rifle can be made to work IRL like the ones in Doom do. These threads have existed already, and it's always down to "doesn't work, because it's a video game that doesn't care about fundamental laws of physics". Also good luck sciencing the shit out of fictional nonsense like "argent energy".

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Besides, the whole Doom space is a finite flat non-fractal torus that has somehow been embedded in three-dimensional Euclidean space. It would be odd to assume that any of the standard laws of physics should therefore apply.

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Now, seriously replying:

Even though it could be interesting talking about the science behind the Doom fictional universe, I think it would be probably too inconsistent on the long term, and things just wouldn't make sense and that could break the magic of the unique concepts that Doom has to offer. If you try to be consistent with the physics on Doom, you'll get very disappointed to know that the surface of Mars is radioactive, that Phobos and Deimos can't have their own natural atmosphere and that they don't have mountains (original Doom games) just to give some examples (these last two facts, despite being obvious, I've never stopped to think about them, I read them on these forums today and thought that they are pretty interesting)

 

And one of the things that make Doom so great is the combination of genres like demonic-fantasy and sci-fi. It's sort of a weird love couple, in which both partners go on opposite directions: while you can (try to) make sense about the laws of physics and the science behind teleporters, plasma weapons, BFG, etc (let's say just try to, because usually, when Holywood wants to use sci-fi terms of things that can't be explained, they just put the word quantum somewhere and voilà, problem solved), demonic-fantasy just can't be explained with science.

 

At least when I play a game that's entertaining as hell and has things like BFG, argent/demonic energy of some kind, or other things that are just way too advanced/supernatural, I just give up the idea of trying to explain it or imagine how could explain it.

 

The only thing that left me thinking about physics and stuff is when the Doomguy launches himself with a giant weapon through a wall and doesn't fucking dies or explodes. Yeah, he's though; but dude, that's just ridiculous for me.

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3 minutes ago, Grazza said:

Besides, the whole Doom space is a finite flat non-fractal torus that has somehow been embedded in three-dimensional Euclidean space. It would be odd to assume that any of the standard laws of physics should therefore apply.

Not sure if this is a joke or a true fact.

 

If it is a true fact, this is interesting as hell.

How so? How do you know that?

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No, it shouldn't because Doom runs on the "Rule of Cool" trope, even if some fundamental aspects such as the BFG 9000 and how does it work could be explained by science, most other aspects can't be explained due to the aformentioned trope. 

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1 hour ago, SirJuicyLemon said:

If it is a true fact, this is interesting as hell.

How so? How do you know that?

You mean the fact that it is a torus? You can verify for yourself that it satisfies the topological properties of a torus by noclipping out of a map and seeing how you wrap around at the edges. The other properties I mentioned are self-evident.

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2 hours ago, SirJuicyLemon said:

Now, seriously replying:

Even though it could be interesting talking about the science behind the Doom fictional universe, I think it would be probably too inconsistent on the long term, and things just wouldn't make sense and that could break the magic of the unique concepts that Doom has to offer. If you try to be consistent with the physics on Doom, you'll get very disappointed to know that the surface of Mars is radioactive, that Phobos and Deimos can't have their own natural atmosphere and that they don't have mountains (original Doom games) just to give some examples (these last two facts, despite being obvious, I've never stopped to think about them, I read them on these forums today and thought that they are pretty interesting)

 

And one of the things that make Doom so great is the combination of genres like demonic-fantasy and sci-fi. It's sort of a weird love couple, in which both partners go on opposite directions: while you can (try to) make sense about the laws of physics and the science behind teleporters, plasma weapons, BFG, etc (let's say just try to, because usually, when Holywood wants to use sci-fi terms of things that can't be explained, they just put the word quantum somewhere and voilà, problem solved), demonic-fantasy just can't be explained with science.

 

At least when I play a game that's entertaining as hell and has things like BFG, argent/demonic energy of some kind, or other things that are just way too advanced/supernatural, I just give up the idea of trying to explain it or imagine how could explain it.

 

The only thing that left me thinking about physics and stuff is when the Doomguy launches himself with a giant weapon through a wall and doesn't fucking dies or explodes. Yeah, he's though; but dude, that's just ridiculous for me.

 

Yeah, it's usually better to keep imagination in the realm of imagination. And the series isn't really built to be explained, even though it can. Very few things in the original games were explained, and even then, only through text at the end of a episode or something.

 

Though I'll still wonder about things like the gravitational effects of a giant ball of green plasma destroying a large chunk of Mars or how fast Doomguy is, etc.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DangerousDave said:

-How much energy would it take for the BFG to work? (And could it shoot a hole in Mars?)

 

You can sort of guesstimate it by noting that the amount of damage it does is in the 3000~3500-ish range, if both the ball and all tracers connect.

 

Interestingly, a single rocket can do the same amount of damage (or even more) if all of its targets are bunched up within its blast radius.

 

So you'd need about the same energy contained in a typical rocket's explosive warhead (without taking into account the efficiency of batteries and electronics needed to manage those levels of power).

 

N.B., the above apply to vanilla BFG/RL.

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@DangerousDaveI believe the Mythbusters once tallied how much it would require to recreate the BFG in real life on their special Doom episode (if i recall. No time to look it up atm).

  • They compared it to currently existing tech, which was ship based laser/railgun technology.
  • They deduced that in order to get a working BFG that works anywhere remotely as to what its video game counterpart does, you would need something several times more powerful and compact than those ship based laser/railgun tech.

In other words, it isn't even remotely feasible with current technology in the form DoomGuy uses it, and ships do not shoot out BFG blasts.

 

Obviously the weaponry of Doom is very much rooted in sci-fi fantasy - Its not practical, its cool.

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Posted (edited)

Then again, in terms of damage and of how it actually operates in-game it's essentially taking the energy contained into a conventional rocket, and directing/aiming it in a specific way. OK, the big 400-800 HP plasma ball is indeed out of reach today, but the "tracers" are little more than individually (and accurately) aimed bullets in terms of damage, dealing shotgun-level damage each. Doesn't sound as glamorous as "tracers" or "naval laser/railgun", but that's what it boils down to. It's just like an overpowered, delayed-action shotgun.

 

So essentially if you made a device capable of belching a big fireball AND aiming 25 incendiary shotgun slugs at all available targets in a 90 degree angle, you'd have a functional equivalent of the Vanilla BFG 9000.

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12 hours ago, DangerousDave said:

 

-How much energy would it take for the BFG to work? (And could it shoot a hole in Mars?)

40 cells. (Yes)

12 hours ago, DangerousDave said:

-How do the Spectres become invisible seemingly without tech?

Super duper demon magic. They sometimes poop invis spheres because they're so magical.

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I think things that go really far with the Doom formula usually don't execute the spirit of the game properly. For me, the first game's theme was isolation and exploration, while the second game was about speed and being an absolute beast. I've tried to mix the themes of the first and second game on countless occasions, only to realize it doesn't seem work that way... yet. I'm gonna keep trying.

The game itself to me is an example of how awesome such simplistic design can be, and I enjoy the raw, systematic way it all works together to make the perfect game. And for all the bits and pieces of the game that may not work out in real life without the help of some ludicrous evolution, I think the unrealistic elements of doom are what make the game perfect.

 

I know, that's 45 minutes of your life you'll never get back.

Unless you don't have a life, like me.

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14 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

No, it shouldn't. It's a video game, it doesn't need to make sense, and nobody needs threads in which people are trying to figure out how a plasma rifle can be made to work IRL like the ones in Doom do. These threads have existed already, and it's always down to "doesn't work, because it's a video game that doesn't care about fundamental laws of physics". Also good luck sciencing the shit out of fictional nonsense like "argent energy".

Let's just agree that Doom is a beautiful piece of creative innovation and that people shouldn't be trying to figure out how to make a BFG10000 to blow a hole into a planet for no reason.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, joe-ilya said:

Super duper demon magic. They sometimes poop invis spheres because they're so magical.

 

A monster that drops invisibility spheres... Move over Arch Vile, there's a new "most annoying enemy" in town.

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Sure if you want matching heads with torsos to become a fulltime job.

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Spectres aren't invisible, they use Camouflage to disappear into the shadows. That science is pretty easy. The BFG however, I believe that is just impossible, plasma in a gun would be difficult because of the large amounts you would need. I'm not that great with Plasma stuff, so livescience.com says, "Plasma is a state of matter that is often thought of as a subset of gases, but the two states behave very differently. ... But unlike ordinary gases, plasmas are made up of atoms in which some or all of the electrons have been stripped away and positively charged nuclei, called ions, roam freely." Lightning is a type of plasma, and that would be difficult to obtain. Invisi-spheres are similar in that it would be impossible to happen, but like most games, health is not real. Being shot in the face doesn't mean absolute death, but when you are shot anywhere other than the arm, you should just fall. Also, I'm pretty sure Hell is not all evil, it's just for sinners, although I'm not sure, I have not read the Bible. Not all sinners are murderous creatures, they just did something bad, like cheat on their spouses.

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On 4/24/2020 at 10:04 PM, Redneckerz said:

(mythbusters doom episode)

 

I think people will get a kick out of that episode! Definitely worth watching. Especially this bit:

 

Even though running around with all that gear is technically possible, it really shows why you should just stick to using imagination and fantasy world rules when it comes to explaining the "science" of Doom's world. Real life restrictions are no fun!

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1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

 

I think people will get a kick out of that episode! Definitely worth watching. Especially this bit:

 

Even though running around with all that gear is technically possible, it really shows why you should just stick to using imagination and fantasy world rules when it comes to explaining the "science" of Doom's world. Real life restrictions are no fun!

Hah! That brings me back. Yeah, they tested out what would happen if you applied real life restrictions to Doom.

 

Quite hilarious to see Adam carry all that stuff when DoomGuy in his HellRealms just has an invisible pocket made out of black holes that he can retrieve at will.

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