So what was the role of The Crucible? (Questions and complete lore summary)

[igg]

What surprised me in Doom Eternal was how insignificant the role of The Crucible was, after it was prophesied in Doom 2016 as the greatest danger for all realms. After all, in Doom Eternal it was only a demonic relic that served as the energy source for the Doom Fortress.

 

Depending on what role the prophecies had in Doom 2016, The Crucible will either no longer play a role in the next Doom game or it will be the basis for Samuel Hayden's reign.

 

Questions

1. According to Doom 2016s lore The Crucible belongs to the Slayer. According to Doom Eternals lore the Slayer has it's own Crucible which apperantly is not The Crucible, since he retrieves it on Taras Nabad while The Crucible is powering Doom Fortress. Is this a major plot hole or did I get it wrong?
2. According to Doom 2016s lore The Crucible will crush the divide. In fact, it did not crush the divide between Doom 2016/Eternals Earth and Hell (this divide was crushed before The Crucible was recovered in Necropolis) nor did it crush the divide between Doom Eternals Hell and Heaven. The Slayer entered Urdak through Nekravol, not through the help of the Crucible. The seal between Urdak and Hell was not broken by The Crucible, since it's still powering Doom Fortress. What do the warnings in Doom 2016 refer to?
   
   Alternative interpretation: Maybe the prophecy is not about the actions of The Crucible but about the monster. Maybe the monster refers to the beast, since this term is used for the Doom Slayer in Doom Eternal. According to Doom Eternals lore the Slayer got the Crucible after leaving the god machine on Argent D'Nur. He became the beast the demons fear. He punished man-born (e. g. civil wars on Argent D'Nur and corrupted humans) and demon beings. He crushed the divide between Hell and Argent D'Nur (before retrieving the Crucible), but he also crushed the divide between Hell and Urdak (after retrieving the Crucible). Hell is now corrupted by Maykrs and Argent D'Nurs hell priest. Argent D'Nur and Urdak are now corrupted by hell.

 

Some observations

• Doom Eternal seems to refer to two Crucibles (sources see below):
  • The one of the Slayer ("A Crucible"):
    • Wraith-fire
    • Can only be held by a Sentinel warrior king
    • It can kill titans (as it does during the missions Taras Nabad and Final Sin)
  • The one of Samuel Hayden ("The Crucible" or "The demonic Crucible")
    • Might offer salvation to mankind
    • Last remaining source of Argent energy
    • Source for synthetic, man-made Argent energy
    • Grant the people a second chance at survival
• Doom 2016 always seems to refer to the one latter one, owned by Samuel Hayden in Doom Eternal
  • "[...] will punish man-born and demon kin alike [...] crush the divide [...] corrupt all realms [...] create the monster [...]" ->
    • Option A: Looks like a plot hole (see question 2).
    • Option B: Fulfilled (see also question 2).
  • "[...] a dark priest consumed by the Crucible. And even the Doom Slayer shall weep in his shadow [...]" -> didn't happen yet, the Slayer did not weep in anyones shadow by now
  • "you can use it to close The Well" -> fulfilled in Doom 2016
  • "retrieve what is yours" -> looks like a plot hole (see question 1)
  • "absorb and contain the energy of The Well for good" -> kind of true, since Hayden uses it in Doom Eternal for synthethic Argent energy

 

Next Doom game

Maybe The Crucible will be of greater importance in the next Doom game. Why?

• Whats still open is the Doom 2016s prophecy of a dark priest consumed by the Crucible. This is one of the most interesting prophecy, because it could indicate that Samuel Hayden is the main antagonist in the next Doom game. What do you think?
• After The Crucible is used as the power source for Doom Fortress, it's lights become red and not blue anymore. In Doom 2016 and Eternal red has always been used for demonic powers/influence. Red was the color scheme of hell or areas consumed by hell, blue was the color scheme of the not demonized areas of Argent D'Nur.  Samuel Hayden even makes jokes about this ("power source you sought to eradicate from Earth is now what will help you to save it"). Maybe the Slayers Fortress is now corrupted too?

 

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Lore summary 

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Doom Eternal (before Doom 2016)

Part IX: "[...] What rose from the holy coffin on that fateful day was not the impure abomination the covenant warned us of; the hero within would come to be known only as the Great Slayer, the time walker, the warrior Khan whose fire-sword would blaze forth a path for the just and cut through the demonic horde with a vengeance that only a God King could summon. He rose unbroken by the Ritual, his eyes burning with Maykr magic. He took the Crucible in his hand, and Wraith-fire leapt forth from the blade, as only it will when held by a true Sentinel warrior king. [...]"

 

Arsenal/Crucible: "A sacred relic of the Sentinel People, the Crucible remains one of the most mysterious artifacts known to man. Texts from Argent D'Nur reference the weapon in a revered, righteous manner; while Night Sentinels were known to employ similar energy-based blades in their armaments, the Crucible remains the only one powerful enough to reportedly slay titan-class demons.

 

Only the Slayer holds knowledge of this venerated sword, for only he has been known to wild it. The blade burns with ethereal heat, immediately cauterizing flesh as it slices through."

 

Doom 2016

 

Kadingir Sanctum: "The power held within the Crucible will punish man-born and demon kin alike. It will crush the divide. It will corrupt all realms. It will create the monster. It must never be found."

 

Kadingir Sanctum: "Yet even as the Doom Slayer revels in the spoils of his war, another shall rise from the fires: a dark priest consumed by the Crucible. And even the Doom Slayer shall weep in his shadow."

 

Titan's Realm: "In the libraries of the Lazarus Labs, you learned of an artifact that can sever the connection between our two worlds known as The Crucible. If you can retrieve the Crucible, you can use it to close The Well and shut down the Argent Tower permanently from inside Hell."

 

Necropolis: "You fought your way through Hell and found the Titan's Core - a portal that gets you one step closer to the Crucible and defeating the forces of Hell for good. You must crush the Crucible guardians and retrieve what is yours."

 

Argent D'Nur: "By destroying VEGA, you've created a portal directly into the heart of Hell. Now you must find your way to the source of the UAC's power known as The Well. The Crucible will allow you to absorb and contain the energy of The Well for good."

 

Doom Eternal

 

The Return of Dr. Samuel Hayden - Part I: "The destruction of the Argent wellspring on Mars meant chaos for planet Earth. Following the loss of communication between Earth and Mars-based facilities, the collapse of the Argent-dependent energy grid consumed the planet in crisis. It was during this time that UAC director Dr. Samuel Hayden suddenly resurfaced on Earth before the AN Council, wielding that which might offer salvation to mankind - the Crucible

 

After recounting the events that had transpired on the red planet, Hayden agreed to cooperate with the AN, providing access to the various UAC facilities on Earth and by extension the full range of technologies at his disposal. Paramount among these was the Crucible, the last remaining source of Argent energy in existence."

 

The Return of Dr. Samuel Hayden - Part II: "Believing it possible to solve the energy crisis which now devastated the planet, Dr. Hayden sought to invent a method of Argent-Synthesis, a synthetic replication that could recreate the high-yield capability of Argent energy. With the destruction of the Argent energy across the solar system, all that remained of Argent existed now within the Crucible, the fabled Hell artifact which Dr. Hayden had acquired on Mars. Knowing full well the Crucible's hidden power, Samuel devised a method to utilize the artifact as an Argent conductor, a process that would in time produce the miracle of synthetic, man-made Argent energy, restoring the production of Argent energy to Earth.

 

Hayden became a mythical figure among Earth's survivors - in no small part due to his abnormal physical condition. Having returned to Earth when most sought a means to escape, bringing with him the Crucible that would grant the people a second chance at survival - for the common person he had become the stuff of legends."

 

Samuel hayden after The Crucible is used as power source for the Doom Fortress: "She didn't know you had the demonic Crucible" "In the end, the very power source you sought to eradicate from Earth is now what will help you to save it"

 

Sources of ingame texts and transcripts:

https://doomwiki.org/ 

https://doom.fandom.com 

Edited April 25, 2020 by igg

[nycemt123]

Interesting. 

I find it a bit more confusing though... after Sentinel Prime, you kill the priest which unconsencrates the realm (everything turns red, including guards' blades - the same guards that welcomed you back upon entering who now rush at you to squeeze you back into your portal). King Novik and the priest both say that spilling sentinel blood on the holy ground will result in loss of sovereignty.

That said, the slayer is still a warrior, but technically no longer a warrior-king... so the Fortress & crucible should, essentially, no longer be available to him... no?

[Deleted_Account]

4 hours ago, nycemt123 said:

Interesting. 

I find it a bit more confusing though... after Sentinel Prime, you kill the priest which unconsencrates the realm (everything turns red, including guards' blades - the same guards that welcomed you back upon entering who now rush at you to squeeze you back into your portal). King Novik and the priest both say that spilling sentinel blood on the holy ground will result in loss of sovereignty.

That said, the slayer is still a warrior, but technically no longer a warrior-king... so the Fortress & crucible should, essentially, no longer be available to him... no?

Well what's he supposed to do, hand the fortress and crucible over and say sorry?

[igg]

4 minutes ago, User Name said:

Well what's he supposed to do, hand the fortress and crucible over and say sorry?

Depends on whether these restrictions are cultural, technical or magical. The Crucible prophecy kind of indicates magical reasons, but Khan Maykrs shutdown of Doom Fortress seems to be purely technical. 

[AtimZarr1]

I think there being multiple Crucibles (Slayer's and Demonic) was retconned for the development of Eternal. Doom 2016's lore is written from the perspective that there is only one Crucible, as evident from written instances of "The Crucible" throughout. The "retrieve what is yours" is a good catch, I hadn't noticed the significance of that line. Most of the Eternal codex entries are written by VEGA I believe, so it's likely he understood Hayden's Crucible as "The Crucible". It's only when we use it to power the Fortress that Hayden himself calls it the "demonic Crucible".

 

The 2016 prophecy wasn't part of the main plot of Doom 2016 either, it was thought to be removed from the game when those lines were first leaked pre-launch but seemingly absent in the final product, until someone heard the Kadingir tree whispering it. The question is whether that tree is meant to be hinting at something or if the developers just wanted a whispering tree, the fact that the tree or its prophecy isn't mentioned in 2016's lore or Eternal at all makes its significance ambiguous.

 

The "power held within the Crucible" is likely Sentinel/Wraith energy, as evident from the Wraith-fire line in Eternal. The Wraiths themselves are said to be terrifying beasts that weren't exactly friend to the Argenta, despite their worship. The line could be saying that the Wraiths, their power fueling the Crucible, are a threat to both humans and demons. I think the prophecy could refer to events after Doom Eternal. The Slayer isn't "reveling in the spoils of his war" after the end of 2016, he was unwillingly banished by Hayden. Saving Mars was a bittersweet victory in that sense. However in Doom Eternal, the Slayer is able to walk away free and saved humanity as he wanted. I don't think the "dark priest" is even Hayden anymore, considering his origins as a Maykr. I think the dark priest, who rises from the fires (of Hell presumably) is a new character that will challenge the Slayer.

 

19 hours ago, igg said:

With the destruction of the Argent energy across the solar system, all that remained of Argent existed now within the Crucible, the fabled Hell artifact which Dr. Hayden had acquired on Mars.

 

This one is interesting because it describes Hayden's Crucible as a "fabled Hell artifact" and not something of Sentinel origin like the Slayer's. Before Hayden would ignite the blade in 2016, the Slayer contained the power of The Well inside it at Argent D'Nur, freeing the imprisoned Elemental Wraiths. This implies the demonic Crucible is capable of absorbing human souls:

 

"During their nightmarish journey the ethereal soul slowly drains from the body, and in that dark realm the substance of mortal life is manifest as matter. It gathers in pools of volatile aura found all over Hell. Demon-kind call these pools The Well, and use them to invigorate themselves for battle.

It is from this aura that the Essence is formed. By melding it with Wraith energy, that which lights the darkened hall and sets the Sentinel sword ablaze, the Essence is founded. The combining of these primal energies creates Argent Energy; a power source so potent, so incalculably formidable, that it has consumed the Argenta and driven us on to greater influence than was ever possible with Wraith power alone."

 

This tells a few things: (1) The Well is made of human souls, (2) Wraith energy ignites Sentinel swords, (3) Argent Energy / Essence is formed by combining Wraith energy and The Well, and (4) the Argenta are "consumed" by Argent Energy. As the demonic Crucible was used by Hayden to synthesize Argent Energy, it's likely it possesses both Wraith and The Well's energies, the latter from when the Slayer used it in 2016. Conversely, the Slayer's Crucible from Taras Nabad would contain only Wraith energy.

 

The Sentinel Codex entries never mention the demonic Crucible, despite its seeming importance to the demons. My theory is that Hell sought to create their own Crucible that could absorb human souls (The Well), but something had happened to cause the demons to become fearful of it. Alternatively, maybe the demonic Crucible was forged by a Hell-aligned Sentinel as an offering but the demons feared it since the Slayer's Crucible was used to slay Titans before. They would seal this Crucible away in the hopes that the Slayer could never use it against them.

 

Important to note that each time the Slayer uses the Crucible in 2016 (picking it up and freeing the Wraiths), spirits of Night Sentinels are summoned that show respect to the Slayer or guide him to his next destination. Perhaps the demonic Crucible contained those spirits?

 

19 hours ago, igg said:

What surprised me in Doom Eternal was how insignificant the role of The Crucible was, after it was prophesied in Doom 2016 as the greatest danger for all realms. After all, in Doom Eternal it was only a demonic relic that served as the energy source for the Doom Fortress. 

 

Depending on what role the prophecies had in Doom 2016, The Crucible will either no longer play a role in the next Doom game or it will be the basis for Samuel Hayden's reign.

 

I don't think we've seen the last of either Crucible. 2016's prophecy could still be in consideration for the future.

 

19 hours ago, igg said:

According to Doom 2016s lore The Crucible belongs to the Slayer. According to Doom Eternals lore the Slayer has it's own Crucible which apperantly is not The Crucible, since he retrieves it on Taras Nabad while The Crucible is powering Doom Fortress. Is this a major plot hole or did I get it wrong? 

 

I think it makes more sense by assuming the 2016 Crucible doesn't "belong" to the Slayer. The only evidence of ownership is the "retrieve what is yours" line, which could just be an assertion of dominance, i.e. it's my mission to collect this item, so therefore this item is now mine. The Crucible found in Taras Nabad does definitely belong to the Slayer, bearing his mark on the hilt.

 

19 hours ago, igg said:

According to Doom 2016s lore The Crucible will crush the divide. In fact, it did not crush the divide between Doom 2016/Eternals Earth and Hell (this divide was crushed before The Crucible was recovered in Necropolis) nor did it crush the divide between Doom Eternals Hell and Heaven. The Slayer entered Urdak through Nekravol, not through the help of the Crucible. The seal between Urdak and Hell was not broken by The Crucible, since it's still powering Doom Fortress. What do the warnings in Doom 2016 refer to?

 

The warnings in Doom 2016 could still be referring to a future event. Like I said, the Slayer wasn't "reveling in the spoils of war" after 2016 but was banished against his will and betrayed by Hayden.

 

19 hours ago, igg said:

The one of the Slayer ("A Crucible"):

 

The Slayer's Crucible is referred to as "The Crucible" in Eternal's Codex as well: "He took the Crucible in his hand..." and "the Crucible remains the only one powerful enough...".

 

---

 

TL;DR - I think the prophecy could remain true if referring to events after Eternal. Alternatively, the prophecy is non-canon or demon fearmongering.

[Gez]

5 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

As the demonic Crucible was used by Hayden to synthesize Argent Energy, it's likely it possesses both Wraith and The Well's energies, the latter from when the Slayer used it in 2016. Conversely, the Slayer's Crucible from Taras Nabad would contain only Wraith energy.

I understood Wraith energy to be blue (see: Sentinel batteries, the Fortress of Doom's initial lighting) and Argent energy to be red; so since both Crucibles have a red blade, both of them use Argent energy.

[blackgoblinmagic]

As I  always belived Samuel truly is the greatest villan in this story.

 

When his plan is truly reveal I belive lots of this early prophecys will make sence. Hes just not strong enough yet...or something...

Might take 1 more or 2 more games.

 

I dont think Samuel just give the Slayer the super powers and immortality without knowing fully what hes doing and consequently planing on something in (long) advance.

 

Feels s bit like G-man of Doom universe.

[AtimZarr1]

13 hours ago, Gez said:

I understood Wraith energy to be blue (see: Sentinel batteries, the Fortress of Doom's initial lighting) and Argent energy to be red; so since both Crucibles have a red blade, both of them use Argent energy.

 

That's a pretty good point. So that would mean the Central Power Room at the end of Taras Nabad is a fount of Argent Energy?

 

Checking the Codex entries again, and the Argenta began using The Essence (Argent Energy) shortly after encountering the demons. The invasion where the Slayer used the Crucible to kill a Titan occurs some indeterminate time after that, so it's possible The Crucible was first formed (or empowered with Argent Energy) in between those two events, since the blade is red when the Slayer retrieves it from the corpse of the Titan.

 

The origins of the Crucible are unexplained, other than that it's a "sacred relic" of the Sentinel people, so it must've been part of their culture for a long time. It shares similarities with other Sentinel weapons (like Valen's energy hammer), but some of the other Codex entries point that many Sentinels opposed use of Argent Energy:

 

"The throngs of the populace drank deeply from the well of energy unveiled by the Priests, but we of the Night Sentinels took no part in their abundance. Some among us whispered accusations and warnings against this manner of progress, but they were quelled, as it was not our role to dictate the future of our people, only to defend it."

 

"The Night Sentinels prepared for war once again, though this battle meant drawing the blood of their own brothers. Our army had seen the work of the demons firsthand and knew its evil. They had returned to the way of the Wraiths, and though their armament was diminished without the Essence, it remained pure and righteous. A division amongst the Argenta had occurred, one side standing in opposition to the doctrine of the Maykrs, the other locked in belief. The Ascended Empire was comprised of the faithful and misled, wielding the desecrated energies of Hell, the power of the Maykrs, and Marauders who had sided with the Khan. The Night Sentinels were bolstered by the free people of Argenta and the mightiest of all killers, the Slayer himself."

 

It's possible the Sentinels, while abstaining from drinking in the energies, did craft the Crucible using Argent Energy before learning of the soul factories in Nekroval. Since the Crucible blade was left in the Titan and still red, it seems the Sentinels never got to return the weapon to the "way of the Wraiths" as they did with their other weapons apparently.

 

It is noted that when the Slayer first used the Crucible, "wraith-fire" leapt forth, which would presumably be blue if Wraith energy is blue. They also note the blade would erupt with that flame as only wielded by a "true Sentinel warrior king", implying it was a weapon that would be wielded by a ancient line of kings. However, it is noted that Doomguy was discovered by the Sentinels during the reign of King Novik, while Argent Energy would be used by the Argenta for the first time during his reign as well. Unless the Crucible was already an ancient weapon at this time and was empowered by Argent Energy during King Novik's rule. Not sure if the Sentinels would approve of empowering such a sacred artifact to their culture with Argent Energy, since many were already wary of it.

 

Now I wonder if there are blue Crucible weapons.

[igg]

19 hours ago, Gez said:

I understood Wraith energy to be blue (see: Sentinel batteries, the Fortress of Doom's initial lighting) and Argent energy to be red; so since both Crucibles have a red blade, both of them use Argent energy.

 

5 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

Now I wonder if there are blue Crucible weapons.

 

I'm not sure about Wraith energy being blue. In Doom 2016s Argent D'Nur the energy flowing from the Wraiths was red.

[AtimZarr1]

Just now, igg said:

I'm not sure about Wraith energy being blue. In Doom 2016s Argent D'Nur the energy flowing from the Wraiths was red.

 

Wasn't that because the Wraiths in 2016 were corrupted?

 

"The Elemental Wraiths, if they do still exist in Argent D'Nur, have no doubt been corrupted by the power of Hell. However, descriptions of the beasts suggest they were terrifying in their own form before any demonization occurred."

 

---

 

An aside, but going over the Crucible's lore made me curious on the different energy sources mentioned so far:

 

Wraith Energy = power of the Elemental Wraiths; used in Argenta society

Sentinel Energy = same as Wraith energy?; used to power the Fortress of Doom

Argent Energy = The Well + Wraith Energy + Hellfire; the miracle fuel for all; can induce zombification

The Essence = the power of Hell; the same as Argent Energy?

The Well = Human souls; seemed to be something else in 2016

Hell Energy = same as Argent Energy?; used to power demon attacks and Gore Nests; appeared at the Mars Fracture (equivalent to Argent Plasma?)

Argent Plasma = "unrefined" Argent Energy; found on Mars' Argent Fracture

 

Interestingly, Argent Plasma and Hell Energy aren't mentioned in Eternal's Codex despite mentioned multiple times in 2016's Codex.

 

Bonus 1: Soul-breaker Energy (Haste powerup)

Bonus 2: Dark-wave Energy (Buff Totem aura)

 

---

 

There's also an "Elixir" of sorts that the Argenta borrowed from the demons:

 

"The Khan Maykr gave blessings to our majesty and directed the Priests to delve deeper into the mysteries of the scarlet Elixir from the demonic realm, for she sought only to return balance to our universe. Proper assimilation was required, as Hell stood beyond her influence."

 

"While our generals were consumed with the Unholy War our culture was marked by the beautiful potion the enemy had provided us - the sweet Elixir. It brought us immeasurable capacity and empowered us to reach farther into dimensions once thought to be beyond our grasp."

 

"We were not without blame, for it was our people, the Priests and Sentinel engineers, who'd laid the work in place. Argenta's slaves had built the dark factories, and our own ancient Wraith-energy helped purify Hell's Elixir into the miracle fuel that now powered the Maykr's world and our own."

 

So it seems this "Elixir" is also The Essence, since the last bit mentions using Wraith-energy to "purify" the Elixir into presumably Argent Energy.

 

---

 

Interesting notes:

 

(1) "We gather the volatile aura, and store it in vast reservoirs. There it is coalesced with Wraith energy, and subjected to the infernal fires of Hell itself. In the heat of the primal fire, the Essence is loosed and captured for our gain."

 

This is where we learn that: The Well + Wraith Energy + Hellfire = Essence

 

(2) "With the Slayer unwittingly cleaving a path for her the Mother God syphoned the Essence, processing it beyond our knowledge into the fuel that would come to be known as Argent Energy."

 

Essence -> Argent Energy; so it seems they're not exact equivalents

 

(3) "Lead there by the wretched Betrayer, Deag Grav and his cabal set a curse upon the Wraiths as they slept, and used their essence for our own devices. With the power of the Wraiths they formed The Well, that which brings us upon our enemies."

 

"In that great victory the Night Sentinels, protectors of the Wraiths, were betrayed by one of their own, and the wretches wept as we devoured their world and took The Well for our devices."

 

The Well from 2016. It was something the demons took from Argent D'Nur and was used to bring themselves to other worlds. During 2016, the Slayer uses the demonic Crucible to shut it down and contain its power. The Elemental Wraiths were also bound to it, as conduits of sorts.

 

(4) "During their nightmarish journey the ethereal soul slowly drains from the body, and in that dark realm the substance of mortal life is manifest as matter. It gathers in pools of volatile aura found all over Hell. Demon-kind call these pools The Well, and use them to invigorate themselves for battle."

 

The Well from Eternal. It is formed from manifested life force gathering into pools of "volatile aura", that the demons call "The Well". It is used to invigorate demons, equivalent to Hell energy mentioned in 2016. There's no mention about its use to bring demons to other worlds.

[KainXavier]

I've always felt like Hayden was the main antagonist of DOOM 4 / 2016.  He groomed Pierce by paying for her education and convincing her to join the UAC. Hayden also "convinced" Pierce using an artifact from Hell.  Moreover, during his conversations with the Slayer, Hayden basically admitted to knowing what Pierce was up to.  He tried to pin all of the blame on her but he also didn't want to stop Argent energy production.  Not to mention, he killed Dr. Peters, stole the (demonic) Crucible, and banished the Slayer to Hell.  He could have easily been the one to kickstart Hell on Earth.

In DOOM Eternal, Hayden knows far more about Hell, Urdak, and the Slayer than he originally let on.  He could be a Makyr, and based on what we know, no Makyr can refuse the order of their Khan.  It's true he does seem to be an ally to the Slayer but he also gained full control of an Argentian warship.  A warship powered by the same Crucible he stole from the Slayer previously.  Also, VEGA's on Urdak and may or may not be the Father.  If VEGA is the Father, that means a new Khan could arise.  Truthfully though, I don't think Hayden is an ally of the Khan's.

As for Hayden being the dark priest, maybe?  He definitely seems to have an agenda of his own.  And id likely introduced the idea of him being a Makyr for a reason.  They may have introduced a second Crucible for the same reason.  Perhaps Hayden will wield one and the Slayer the other?  I suppose it's also possible that the demonic Crucible did belong to the Slayer at one point.  Or maybe Hayden thought it did prior to the events of Eternal.

[Quasar]

The continuing enigma that surrounds Hayden definitely makes it hard to trust him, however good he is at seeming to be on your side in Eternal. The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend though.

 

As a Luciferian figure, it stands to reason he might ultimately have an interest in usurping any other powers in the universe and trying to be "top dog" himself. He's now succeeded in eliminating the Khan Maykr, who would have been a large roadblock in any such plan.

[Sitting on a cornflake]

Speaking of story continuity issues, I'd like to know why King Novid begins the game by admonishing you to "rip and tear until it is done" and then 1.5 levels later tells you that this conflict is bigger than you appreciate, that you can't kill the hell priests, etc.    

[AtimZarr1]

5 hours ago, Sitting on a cornflake said:

Speaking of story continuity issues, I'd like to know why King Novid begins the game by admonishing you to "rip and tear until it is done" and then 1.5 levels later tells you that this conflict is bigger than you appreciate, that you can't kill the hell priests, etc.    

 

I think it was because the ghostly King Novik was dead and perhaps that made him bitter. He opposed the Khan Maykr in Argent D'Nur's civil war but failed. The Night Sentinels are all but dead, Argent D'Nur has fallen, and the Khan Maykr now moves to other worlds to harvest. He probably doesn't have any faith left in the Doom Slayer at this point, thinks his conflict is pointless and that it's simply "their time to give penance".

 

Source for King Novik's opposition to the Khan Maykr (you can see him on the top-right):

 

 

Conversely, the King Novik we hear in the intro speech and the ending speech is likely a memory of something he told the Slayer long ago. That would've been likely at the relative prime of Argent D'Nur's conquest into Hell.

[KainXavier]

8 hours ago, Quasar said:

As a Luciferian figure, it stands to reason he might ultimately have an interest in usurping any other powers in the universe and trying to be "top dog" himself. He's now succeeded in eliminating the Khan Maykr, who would have been a large roadblock in any such plan.

Well, he's certainly obsessed with Argent so it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted figurative power too.  I definitely feel like getting rid of the current Khan or nullifying the agreement between Urdak and Hell was part of his plan.  If he is a Maykr, then that means he had access to the Divinity machine.  Perhaps he saw something that prompted his stealing the Father and making the Slayer superhuman / immortal?  Either that or he just wanted to take away the Kahn's immortality and use the Slayer to rebel against the Khan indirectly.

Getting back to the Crucible, I do have to wonder if there's significance to how the prophecy is worded, i.e. "crushing" the divide vs "crossing" it.  Hell very clearly wants to "cross" the divide, and the prophecy mentions that Olivia enabled them to do so.  Also, we know that "crushing" the divide will corrupt all realms so maybe that's something akin to merging them?  And maybe merging the realms is somehow really bad for Hell?  (Monster not withstanding.) 

 

If merging the realms is bad for Hell, I suppose it could be bad for Urdak too.  I also don't see any reason why the Khan Makyr or Samuel Hayden would want that.  They both want Argent energy (or a synthetic equivalent) to exist.  Presumably, crushing the divide would cause Argent to cease to exist.  (Souls don't manifest as matter on Earth.)  There's also the fact that the Makyrs can't enter Hell for some reason.  Maybe they'll cease to exist too?

Thinking about it more, Hayden likely isn't the dark priest.  He wants Argent to exist, he seems to not want humans to die, and he also appears to be fond of the Maykrs.  (He kept ripping on the Khan, but he expressed dismay over the fact that demons could now invade Urdak.)  The only way I could see him being the dark priest is if the demonic Crucible somehow corrupts it wielder over time.  That might be why Hell kept it guarded and on a pedestal rather than try to use it themselves.

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by KainXavier