hardware recommendations

[666shooter]

Hey, everyone. So after having two near back-to-back crashes trying to play Map 16 of Mapwich, and the same happening recently with maps in Golden Souls 2 and Refracted Reality, I thought I would start a topic to ask about recommendations for hardware. I would like to invest in a new laptop, if that is what is necessary, to be able to run these modern Wads smoothly and without screen-freezing and intensive lag, but as I do not know much about computers and specifications, I thought I would ask the community for advice. So, what systems would you recommend to run Wads such as these without having to hard reset my system every two maps (or two minutes)? My current C55 Satellite does not seem to want to do the job anymore.

[Nine Inch Heels]

Buy a semi-decent desktop computer. Laptops always mean less performance at a higher cost.

[666shooter]

4 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Buy a semi-decent desktop computer. Laptops always mean less performance at a higher cost.

Can I ask what you might recommend? I've had a suggestion in a previous thread it might be an issue with my current laptop's GPU capabilities.

[MFG38]

Judging by my own laptop's specs and how well it tends to run modern Doom maps, I'd say anything with a 7th-gen Intel Core CPU and a GeForce 900 Series GPU should be adequate.

[666shooter]

10 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

Judging by my own laptop's specs and how well it tends to run modern Doom maps, I'd say anything with a 7th-gen Intel Core CPU and a GeForce 900 Series GPU should be adequate.

Okay, thank you very much for the advice; that finally gives me something concrete to work with to start researching, which I have done since reading your post.

Now, the question becomes: Is the i5 enough at 7th or 8th gen, or do I need to invest in an i7 series, which it says is more powerful?

[boris]

Intel 7th gen is like 3 years old, the GeForce 900 series is over 5 years old. Why would anyone buy that old crap?

 

As for CPUs, right now you get the most bang for your buck with AMD. Like the Ryzen 5 3600.

[666shooter]

Okay, I need to ask a very stupid question and for that I apologize. Do I need to update my physical hardware to install a new graphics card and CPU, or can I keep the current laptop and Frankenstein in the new components?

[Wagi]

Usually a new CPU will require a new motherboard, whereas all GPUs just plug into a PCIe slot.

 

That being said, the game outright crashing sounds suspicious, and usually point to a driver issue rather than a speed issue.

 

Keep in mind, you're playing *Doom*, not Crysis, and that even Intel integrated graphics are miles ahead of what you can find in a Pentium circa 2014. I would be shocked if a dedicated GPU from any point in the last 5 years couldn't play any WAD under the sun.

[666shooter]

3 minutes ago, Wagi said:

Usually a new CPU will require a new motherboard, whereas all GPUs just plug into a PCIe slot.

 

That being said, the game outright crashing sounds suspicious, and usually point to a driver issue rather than a speed issue.

 

Keep in mind, you're playing *Doom*, not Crysis, and that even Intel integrated graphics are miles ahead of what you can find in a Pentium circa 2014. I would be shocked if a dedicated GPU from any point in the last 5 years couldn't play any WAD under the sun.

How much do you know about crashing and performance? I'm really looking to figure out what might be causing this problem and how to fix it. I've asked about this issue once or twice before and this crash is outright malicious; I've only ever had it happen once in a "big budget" game (Painkiller Black), and the Wads are running at around 60 FPS otherwise. It seems to be an extermely rare issue in that no one seems to know precisely what is causing it.

I've got GZDoom 4.1.3 (need this version for that precious, precious GSouls 2 save file, ha ha), and I've had the same issues with 3.7 as well if I recall. Supposedly this is high enough to run Refracted Reality? And Mapwich? Definitely GSouls 2, but it hates that as well.

[Redneckerz]

1 hour ago, boris said:

Intel 7th gen is like 3 years old, the GeForce 900 series is over 5 years old. Why would anyone buy that old crap?

Enough use cases to think of why you would want older hardware. Older hardware is often cheaper to find, or perhaps you are a collector/tester with a knack for older GPU's.

 

1 hour ago, 666shooter said:

Okay, I need to ask a very stupid question and for that I apologize. Do I need to update my physical hardware to install a new graphics card and CPU, or can I keep the current laptop and Frankenstein in the new components?

It is technically possible to upgrade a laptop's video card, but its not a cheap endeavor and it requires opening up the laptop.

 

So you are better off purchasing a new one.

27 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

How much do you know about crashing and performance? I'm really looking to figure out what might be causing this problem and how to fix it. I've asked about this issue once or twice before and this crash is outright malicious; I've only ever had it happen once in a "big budget" game (Painkiller Black), and the Wads are running at around 60 FPS otherwise. It seems to be an extermely rare issue in that no one seems to know precisely what is causing it.

We can't see the exact specs of your computer or what you have installed. Issues like these can be wildly specific so its difficult to pinpoint what it could be.

 

27 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

I've got GZDoom 4.1.3 (need this version for that precious, precious GSouls 2 save file, ha ha), and I've had the same issues with 3.7 as well if I recall.

Unless Golden Souls 2 specifically mentions that save files will break after a specific GZDoom version, save files are universal across most modern GZDoom versions.

27 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

Supposedly this is high enough to run Refracted Reality? And Mapwich? Definitely GSouls 2, but it hates that as well.

Again this depends on your hardware. WADS usually specifiy a minimum version of a port in order to function. Upgrading it does not automagically solve your issue.

 

What does your hardware consist of?

[666shooter]

This is a C-55 Toshiba Satellite and- I have discovered- is running an Intel HD Graphics Family card, Full Display Device type. It runs games such as Ion Fury and Half Life 2 with no problems, but wouldn't handle Doom 2016 at all, for example.

And are you sure about that universal save file? When I updated from 3.7 to 4.1 I got an "older version" error when trying to load older files, from GSouls one in fact. Unless that's a transition from 3.0 to 4.0 causing the problem. Which would make sense.

[chowbar]

1 hour ago, 666shooter said:

This is a C-55 Toshiba Satellite and- I have discovered- is running an Intel HD Graphics Family card, Full Display Device type. It runs games such as Ion Fury and Half Life 2 with no problems, but wouldn't handle Doom 2016 at all, for example.

 

Yeah sounds like an Intel HD laptop alright, you got a budget for a new laptop? Are you willing to build your own PC?

As NIH said, a laptop will always be a worse value than a self-built desktop computer but a monitor and keyboard aren't included.

A super quick glance at Amazon showed me this...

https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Display-i5-8265U-GeForce-A515-54G-5928/dp/B07TJ21K7T/ref=sr_1_26?dchild=1&keywords=gaming+laptop+under+1000&qid=1588370740&sr=8-26

 

While it's not especially high end or an amazing value, it should run GZDoom and more complex wads with little trouble.

[Redneckerz]

13 hours ago, 666shooter said:

This is a C-55 Toshiba Satellite and- I have discovered- is running an Intel HD Graphics Family card, Full Display Device type.

That gives some clarity but not nearly enough - Multiple C55 models exist, and Intel confusingly has multiple graphics card with the same name.

 

Can you go to control panel  -> System? Id like to know the specific processor model because HD Graphics is an integrated card.

 

The higher end Intel IGP's should run GZDoom somewhat, but the low end models aren't sufficient for any advanced visual fluff - The fact that you mention it lags is an indicator that its not really up to snuff.

13 hours ago, 666shooter said:

It runs games such as Ion Fury and Half Life 2 with no problems, but wouldn't handle Doom 2016 at all, for example.

Yes - Because if the Intel HD Graphics. Its likely an older model that can run 2004 games like HL2 or games that run on older OpenGL like Ion Fury quite well. Doom 2016 is vastly more advanced in that regard and thus requires more.

13 hours ago, 666shooter said:

And are you sure about that universal save file?

No. I am simply using deduction here.

 

[666shooter]

@RedneckerzIt is a C55 C, with a i5 5200U CPU @ 2.20 GHz, according to the specifications.

Wouldn't there be more noticeable lag instead of frequent, instantaneous crashes? I can go from running Mapwich in HD at 60 FPS to a screen freeze in the middle of ascending a lift or super shotgunning a Hell Knight (both of which happened yesterday, in reverse order). Most of the time if I can't run a game, the lag will be very severe instead of sudden drop offs to zero frames. [As best as I can understand what might be happening?]

[Redneckerz]

43 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

@RedneckerzIt is a C55 C, with a i5 5200U CPU @ 2.20 GHz, according to the specifications.

So your GPU is a HD Graphics 5500.  Thats not bottom of the barrel Bay Trail Intel HD Graphics, but obviously also not recent stuff.

 

GZDoom should run on these but have you considered testing LZDoom?

43 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

Wouldn't there be more noticeable lag instead of frequent, instantaneous crashes? I can go from running Mapwich in HD at 60 FPS to a screen freeze in the middle of ascending a lift or super shotgunning a Hell Knight (both of which happened yesterday, in reverse order)

Given that you run with screen freezes and crashes, it might be that later GZ does not like your set up that much. A few things can be considered:

• If the latest DirectX/OpenGL drivers are used. Try installing the Intel Graphics Driver for Windows found here. It has a timestamp of March 25, 2020.
• General advice: Keep your laptop clean! Random crashes can occur if the computer is not cleaned up - Consider a computer like a machine with several file cabinets. Inside those cabinets, files are stored in seperate folders. Over time, those folders become messy and the cabinet becomes too cramped. A clean up is in order. Similar things are also in play with computers (and thus laptops) :)

43 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

. Most of the time if I can't run a game, the lag will be very severe instead of sudden drop offs to zero frames. [As best as I can understand what might be happening?]

That's because you are trying to run games that require more grunt than your 5200U can provide. Its a dual-core processor, meaning it has two processing elements to do the load. It also has four threads, so the tasks it does can be done with four hands. Its not however a true quad-core or octa core processor though.

 

Modern games (Like Doom 2016) demand a quad-core atleast, and also multiple GB's of ram. I do not know what your laptop has, but judging by its specs, i would say its 4 GB.

 

TLDR: A game like Doom 2016 will suffer on your rig because it does not have the GPU grunt to render the game, much less the CPU power to process the game logic. Please do not play Doom 2016 on this.

 

I hope this helps a bit. :)

[666shooter]

I wasn't playing Doom 2016 on this, it won't even open the demo, I was only using that as an example of a higher end game it can't run.

Thank you, I will try downloading the graphics driver and see if that makes any difference.

Unfortunately, as one of my friends had suggested, apparently downloading driver updates is not supported by the internal driver on this computer, so I won't be able to update the driver software.

I will give LZDoom a shot as a temporary fix for some less recent Wads to see if that improves things. Thank you for your advice.

[666shooter]

@Redneckerz Just downloaded LZDoom earlier and tried it with Refracted Reality, since I recalled it saying it could support GZDoom 3.8, which LZDoom is a based off of. I ran Chromabyss- where I had two crashes before- smoothly with no crashes and almost zero lag. So I just wanted to say thank you very much for the recommendation; I'd seen LZDoom before but hadn't considered it might resolve the problem and didn't want to compromise compatiblity, but I'm very happy about at least being able to run this.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

8 hours ago, 666shooter said:

@RedneckerzIt is a C55 C, with a i5 5200U CPU @ 2.20 GHz, according to the specifications.

Wouldn't there be more noticeable lag instead of frequent, instantaneous crashes? I can go from running Mapwich in HD at 60 FPS to a screen freeze in the middle of ascending a lift or super shotgunning a Hell Knight (both of which happened yesterday, in reverse order). Most of the time if I can't run a game, the lag will be very severe instead of sudden drop offs to zero frames. [As best as I can understand what might be happening?]

Probably crashes because it is an integrated GPU and can't keep up with the games (It eats your RAM and has shit speed compared to a dedicated GPU).

[Redneckerz]

7 hours ago, 666shooter said:

I was only using that as an example of a higher end game it can't run.

Because you lack RAM, CPU and GPU grunt :)

7 hours ago, 666shooter said:

Thank you, I will try downloading the graphics driver and see if that makes any difference.

Unfortunately, as one of my friends had suggested, apparently downloading driver updates is not supported by the internal driver on this computer, so I won't be able to update the driver software.

Why does your friend suggest that? Its your computer, ofcourse it can download that driver.

 

What your friend might have meant is that Windows ever so helpful (And Doom reference, maybe?) UAC is turned on. (User Account Control). UAC warns users on downloading files off the internet.

 

5 hours ago, 666shooter said:

@Redneckerz Just downloaded LZDoom earlier and tried it with Refracted Reality, since I recalled it saying it could support GZDoom 3.8, which LZDoom is a based off of. I ran Chromabyss- where I had two crashes before- smoothly with no crashes and almost zero lag. So I just wanted to say thank you very much for the recommendation; I'd seen LZDoom before but hadn't considered it might resolve the problem and didn't want to compromise compatiblity, but I'm very happy about at least being able to run this.

Be sure to check if you run in software or in OpenGL, which can be found in the video options :)

[666shooter]

3 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Because you lack RAM, CPU and GPU grunt :)

Why does your friend suggest that? Its your computer, ofcourse it can download that driver.

 

What your friend might have meant is that Windows ever so helpful (And Doom reference, maybe?) UAC is turned on. (User Account Control). UAC warns users on downloading files off the internet.

 

Be sure to check if you run in software or in OpenGL, which can be found in the video options :)

No, it won't download any driver updates because it is incompatible with the internal driver. Attempting to do so gives me an error message essentially stating, "Not supported. Contact your manufacturer." And I am able to use the OpenGL mode in LZDoom.

[Redneckerz]

33 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

No, it won't download any driver updates because it is incompatible with the internal driver.

I am puzzled with what you refer to as ''Internal driver'', then.

33 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

Attempting to do so gives me an error message essentially stating, "Not supported. Contact your manufacturer."

So that specific download package does not work?

33 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

And I am able to use the OpenGL mode in LZDoom.

Good. :)

[666shooter]

15 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

I am puzzled with what you refer to as ''Internal driver'', then.

So that specific download package does not work?

The package doesn't work because it says its incompatible, even though it is correct for the CPU in this laptop.

[Redneckerz]

29 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

The package doesn't work because it says its incompatible, even though it is correct for the CPU in this laptop.

Then you should download these from the laptop manufacturers site. They usually bundle these. As i do not know the specific sub-model, you have to do this yourself.