What Is Your Opinion On Free Speech?

[FractalBeast]

Now we just need to wait for a .wad that explores the philosophical, social and cultural conundrums of free speech with the use of lots of Revenants.

[Redneckerz]

9 minutes ago, FractalBeast said:

Now we just need to wait for a .wad that explores the philosophical, social and cultural conundrums of free speech with the use of lots of Revenants.

Not sure if joking, but:

• The Revenant Problem

On second thought, yeah you joking. But i am going to leave it anyway because its a good mapset aswell.

[rehelekretep]

related to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[Chip]

I guess free speech now costs $29.99

[BigBoy91]

I'm all for freedom of speech - even speech that those may find problematic. Let me hear what they have to say and decide for myself if they're an asshole or not.

[Grazza]

Opinean on Free Speech? I think there's nothing to add to what Username wrote:

 

 

[Taw Tu'lki]

I don't care

[Murdoch]

I concur with most of the comments. Free speech has become a crutch for asshats who do not like being told they are being asshats, and conspiracy nuts spreading lies that range from the hilariously dumb like the moon landing was fake and flat Earth, to flat out dangerous like antivax nutters telling a woman not to listen to her doctor to treat her kid's flu. That kid is now dead.

 

Free speech should be upheld. But it does not and should not mean freedom from the consequences of that speech. If you are going to say views you know damned well are unpopular or unsubstantiated by actual real evidence, suck it up and don't be such a bitch when you get called out.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Murdoch

[stphrz]

20 hours ago, DSC said:

Unfortunately I can't see the video, its not available anymore... What it was exactly?

You didn't see what he did there did you?

 

Thing is, on the internet, censorship is difficult at best.  Even a completely totalitarian government like China's fails in the end most times.  Folks are smart and can devise clever ways around the weasels charged with stamping out naughty chatter.

 

Besides the truth has the quality of a super fluid.

Edited May 8, 2020 by stphrz

[FractalBeast]

On 5/7/2020 at 9:12 PM, Redneckerz said:

Not sure if joking, but:

• The Revenant Problem

On second thought, yeah you joking. But i am going to leave it anyway because its a good mapset aswell.

Semi joking. But the Revenant Problem is a great concept.

 

[ketmar]

free speech: you can talk about everything without being legally prosecuted unless you're talking about something that is defined as being forbidden, and then you will be legally prosecuted. the whole "free speech" is a farce, because if freedom has some legal exceptions, it is not freedom anymore.

[dr_st]

9 hours ago, ketmar said:

the whole "free speech" is a farce, because if freedom has some legal exceptions, it is not freedom anymore.

In other words, freedom can only exist in a world of full-blown anarchy? Philosophically you can make this claim, but very few people would actually like living in such an environment.

[ketmar]

30 minutes ago, dr_st said:

but very few people would actually like living in such an environment.

most people won't even notice the difference. except that they won't be paying taxes anymore, and won't need any paperwork to do the things they want. a sentient and rational being can always reach an agreement with another sentient and rational being. actually, this is one of the most important "features" of a sentient being. people don't need any "authority" to live with each other -- otherwise we'll be living with a cop closely watching each one of us, because without such control we'll start a killing spree.

[dew]

13 minutes ago, ketmar said:

a sentient and rational being can always reach an agreement with another sentient and rational being.

Too bad people aren't going to behave rationally at all times. Might decide to kick you to death for fun. Try reaching an agreement with a broken jaw.

 

Also please don't even start with the absolutely idiotic concept of "taxes aren't needed". Just because you're a low maintenance shut-in who doesn't participate in a society meaningfully doesn't mean you're not leeching on the Czech social safety net system anyway.

[dr_st]

17 minutes ago, ketmar said:

most people won't even notice the difference. except that they won't be paying taxes anymore, and won't need any paperwork to do the things they want.

We are so far from seeing eye-to-eye on this.

 

18 minutes ago, ketmar said:

a sentient and rational being can always reach an agreement with another sentient and rational being. actually, this is one of the most important "features" of a sentient being.

And you know what happens when enough sentient and rational beings reach agreements with other such beings? Exactly. They develop a system not unlike what we have in our world.

 

19 minutes ago, ketmar said:

people don't need any "authority" to live with each other

This "authority" isn't some otherworldly thing. It is a system built from the same individuals. It converges to this, because, despite many flaws, it still allows the society in general to move forward more efficiently then "every man for himself".

 

[Dark Pulse]

My opinion is that many people don't know what freedom of speech actually means, and they assume it means they can say anything they want, to anyone they want, at any time they want.

 

Then they get offended when people tell them to get out of their face, not realizing that "freedom of speech" simply means that the government can't and won't control what you say on public lands - but that a private business or person has every right to tell you they don't want to hear your linguistic diarrhea, now get the fuck off the property before the cops are called.

 

In short, it needs a better name. Or we need to reinstate Civics courses in this country again, because this gets abused to hell and back with the Second Amendment as well. No it's not a law saying you have a right to own guns, it's a law saying that the government won't take your guns away in case a militia needs to be formed, something that this country has honestly not really needed in almost 200 years now.

 

It's literally a functionally obsolete amendment, and I'm pretty sure when the Founding Fathers were talking about guns, they certainly weren't imagining owning a fully automatic machine gun that can shoot 600 rounds per minute is needed to defend yourself. But I digress.

[ketmar]

11 minutes ago, dr_st said:

And you know what happens when enough sentient and rational beings reach agreements with other such beings? Exactly. They develop a system not unlike what we have in our world.

nope. government is a social parasite. the myth about inevitability of goverments was created by governments.

 

13 minutes ago, dr_st said:

it still allows the society in general to move forward more efficiently then "every man for himself".

this is not what anarchy is about. naive individualistic "darwinism" is very far from what anarchy really is.

[dew]

4 minutes ago, ketmar said:

government is a social parasite.

Takes one to know one.

[Rare Hatchiama]

I love free speech.  All free speech.

 

I think that all speech, spoken or unspoken, loving or hateful, should never be infringed upon in a public setting.

 

However, we must remember that every action has a consequence.  Sure, you can preach hateful rhetoric all day.  I don't think the government should be allowed to dictate what's okay for you to say or not.  Even if some people get "offended."  Fuck feelings.  But on the other side of that coin, if you go out and say some shit that people disagree with, expect them to use their free speech to say whatever they want to or about you, or worse.  Just because it isn't legal to beat the shit out of you for saying anti-what/whomever things doesn't mean some folks aren't going to ignore the law for the satisfaction they aim to gain from harming you.

 

This all changes in a private setting.  For the sake of relateability, let's consider our own Doomworld.  This place is not a public forum.  Membership is required to post here, amd there are moderators here.  The moderators job is to look out for the best interests of the members of the site.  So while  you can speak with no fear of legal persecution (sans certain extreme examples), the owners of this private area reserve the right to let in or force out whoever they want, as is their right to free speech or expression.

[yakfak]

4 minutes ago, Rare Hatchiama said:

I love free speech.  All free speech.

 

I think that all speech, spoken or unspoken, loving or hateful, should never be infringed upon in a public setting.

 

However, we must remember that every action has a consequence.  Sure, you can preach hateful rhetoric all day.  I don't think the government should be allowed to dictate what's okay for you to say or not.  Even if some people get "offended."  Fuck feelings.  But on the other side of that coin, if you go out and say some shit that people disagree with, expect them to use their free speech to say whatever they want to or about you.

 

This all changes in a private setting.  For the sake of relateability, let's consider our own Doomworld.  This place is not a public forum.  Membership is required to post here, amd there are moderators here.  The moderators job is to look out for the best interests of the members of the site.  So while  you can speak with no fear of legal persecution (sans certain extreme examples), this owners of this private area reserve the right to let in or force out whoever they want, as is their right to free speech or expression.

 

the problem is that "free speech" is a misnomer. we give mega-assertive assholes the power of free action with the same wording. people can sway elections with free action and they can cause riots and they can manipulate the market to put the poor in an unwinnable position and it's all considered a simple exercising of a right that everyone has, but the truth is that most people cannot embrace it in a useful way.

 

it's not that im offended by someone stumping for a conservative candidate it's that my life is made measurably worse by their actions. but somehow that isn't violence

[Rare Hatchiama]

And you are free to feel however you want.

 

Life sucks.  More for some than others at different junctures.  Life is balance.  Some must be suffering for some to be reveling.  The pendelum swings and tides turn, todays victims are tomorrows victors and the leaders of today will be asking for change tomorrow.

 

There cannot ever be 100% satisfaction or happiness.  

[DSC]

11 hours ago, ketmar said:

he whole "free speech" is a farce, because if freedom has some legal exceptions, it is not freedom anymore.

Names are labels, not definitions.

[dr_st]

@ketmar

I do understand quite well what "anarchy" really is. It is this grand Utopian idea in the minds of people, who, typically during the years of adolescence, have read a few opinion pieces on various conspiracy-theory and similar nutcase outlets, and have become in love with the thought that everyone is either stupid or evil, and only they (and the narrow group of similar thinkers) have seen the light of truth. And if only enough people got their brains together to overthrow the "parasitic" governments and other "authorities", then we are all going to live happily ever after.

 

Most people eventually grow out of this naivety; some never do. I don't know how old you are, but I have a friend who is approaching 40, and he is still quite there in his belief system.

[Doomkid]

3 hours ago, dew said:

Takes one to know one.

So if you "know" that ketmar is a social parasite, that must mean...

[Czerny399]

I'll answer this differently.

 

I build my computer was about 800 Bucks, get Doom 1+2 for about 5 bucks Steam sale.  Guess what?  The de-regulation, good will from the Doom community, the provision of tools, source ports, servers and Time has given me unlimited fun that can last forever.  It was the fact that such a simple game was allowed to flourish, even with controversies and dramas has kept going.  Few rocks stars exists, but there is a great deal of respect within the community to kept up this game.

 

If you were to ask me again, what is Freedom of Speech.

I'll answer this differently once more.

If you want true freedom, there would be no need to have laws enforced everywhere.  Rather, the laws are already in the hearts and minds in people.

No one person is perfect,  thus eternal vigilance is required to maintain a standard, while keeping guard against perversion.

[ketmar]

11 hours ago, dr_st said:

I do understand quite well what "anarchy" really is.

ah, i see. so you read books of at least Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Mikhail Bakunin, and you disagree? can i ask you what did they wrote wrong, and why do you disagree, and with what? of course, i cannot let myself think that you're talking about anarchy without even reading the books of those who shaped it, but using only some "common knowledge" (given to you by mass media). that won't be fair, you're a sentient and rational being after all.

 

p.s.: just in case, i am not an anarchist. simply look at my profile pic, it has Red Star for a reason.

[dew]

19 hours ago, Doomkid said:

So if you "know" that ketmar is a social parasite, that must mean...

Nice try, 6/10. We all know, based on information in his previous posts. That is, unless he changed his life philosophy of being unemployed on purpose.

[seed]

19 minutes ago, dew said:

Nice try, 6/10. We all know, based on information in his previous posts. That is, unless he changed his life philosophy of being unemployed on purpose.

 

And to be fair and square, from your posts one can also reach the conclusion you kinda have a personal problem with ketmar.

 

May I ask you why that is, if true?

[ketmar]

15 minutes ago, seed said:

May I ask you why that is, if true?

because i dared to ignore his ego. ;-)

[dew]

1 hour ago, seed said:

May I ask you why that is, if true?

He has a habit of derailing threads to his favourite topics, which I believe was demonstrated here perfectly. You may say I helped to bury it with the ad hominem attack, but the thread was doomed the moment ketmar joined it to talk about the need to end all governments. He will continue talking at people, smugly preaching his manifestos, until everyone else gets fed up and leaves. To put it in a topical way, commandeering a thread is not your freedom of speech.