Why does UV-Max not include items?

[LucidLocomotive]

Or even when it’s not even explicity “uv-max” official run, people always say “oh and we are gonna be getting 100% kills and secrets”. Why have 100% items never been a part of this? It seems like a true uv max would be 100% completing the level, including the items category

[baja blast rd.]

Imagine a map with lots and lots of bonuses. Getting 100% items would be boring to do and watch. So the category makers never included that requirement and there has never been much interest among runners in doing it. 

[BigBoy91]

I was just about to post a thread about this. Glad I got an answer already!

[LucidLocomotive]

38 minutes ago, lazy91geek said:

I was just about to post a thread about this. Glad I got an answer already!

Nice image btw, (johnny carmack) never dies!

[LucidLocomotive]

58 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Imagine a map with lots and lots of bonuses. Getting 100% items would be boring to do and watch. So the category makers never included that requirement and there has never been much interest among runners in doing it. 

Its strange though because most items are tied to secrets, or found along the path to the secrets and the exits, at least in official iwads none are really all that out of the way

[dmslr]

 

11 minutes ago, LucidLocomotive said:

Its strange though because most items are tied to secrets, or found along the path to the secrets and the exits, at least in official iwads none are really all that out of the way

rdwpa meant health and armor bonuses, not items like Supercharge

[Kut]

"Items" is an unreliable category, collecting all of them would be a slog, not to mention that most stock maps neglect this category.

[Nevander]

7 hours ago, rdwpa said:

Imagine a map with lots and lots of bonuses. Getting 100% items would be boring to do and watch. So the category makers never included that requirement and there has never been much interest among runners in doing it. 

Runners might not include it, but I do for personal plays. If I leave a map without full 100% in everything, I did not fully UV-max.

[Bauul]

7 hours ago, LucidLocomotive said:

Its strange though because most items are tied to secrets, or found along the path to the secrets and the exits, at least in official iwads none are really all that out of the way

 

Look at something like The Courtyard (Map18 of Doom 2). It has 48 Armor Bonuses and 127 Health Bonuses. Picking up all of those would be the majority of a demo's play time.

[Decay]

If people have the patience to watch others circle around demons holding  D + M1 for hours, they can have the patience for item pick ups too. Seems like a silly and arbitrary decision

[Nine Inch Heels]

I don't get why people would always ask this question. Fuck picking up all the items.

 

What's more impressive?

 

-Beating a map entirely, with everything dead and all secrets found, and needing every item the map to do so.
or

-Beating a map entirely, with everything dead and all secrets found, and NOT needing every item the map to do so.

 

Taking items out of the equation gives runners options that wouldn't be present otherwise. It adds decision making such as "Do I play it safe, and pick up all the shit right here to stay alive?" or "Do I go balls to the walls, play a risky game, and get rewarded with a better result if I succeed under more difficult conditions?"

[j4rio]

Yes, anytime this is brough up, the answer boils down to the fact that it was an arbitrary decision in the past, but has never really been that notable of an addition to be worth recreating categories for. However, it adds more routing depth to categories where max kills are necessary and spheres are possible to ignore to save time. If items were not ignored for the category in the past, they would likely end up being ignored at some point anyway, with wads like ngmvmt1 spamming spheres everywhere.

[Grain of Salt]

We hate items.

[galileo31dos01]

49 minutes ago, Grain of Salt said:

We hate items.

 

[dmslr]

1 hour ago, Grain of Salt said:

We hate items.

You do, because you don't feel the visible impact of them. How many times have you survived with 1-10 hp and finished a level? Very likely you succeeded because you had bothered to collect a few bonuses .

[Grain of Salt]

I have never finished a level.

[dr_st]

On 5/10/2020 at 5:43 PM, Nevander said:

Runners might not include it, but I do for personal plays. If I leave a map without full 100% in everything, I did not fully UV-max.

If I was into building levels, I'd build you some with multiple Computer Area Maps just to see you curse in vain. ;)

[Bashe]

After doing some runs where I focused on getting all items under UV-max rules, I found it doesn't really add much. Nothing like forgetting a bonus of some sort 200 miles back in the beginning and being like "welp time to add more time for no reason because of my pooey pants memory!"

 

It's not a big deal for regular play, but for any kind of speed-oriented play, it's kind of a chore. I prefer to see it as "I didn't have to get all the items to beat the map", and lower % is better.