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LiT_gam3r

Warnings on Doomworld. (now suspensions)

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I got a warning point some time ago. I jumped into a politics-related thread and posted my thoughts, which of course escalated into cacophony, and the thread was closed mid-debate. I should've walked away, but instead I made another thread continuing it, because I had an overwhelming urge to get the last word in. I knew I was being naughty when I did it, so it was justified.

 

in general, every community has a different feel to it. I've spent a fair amount of time in places where it's basically a Wild West free-for-all, where trolling is embraced, and only flat-out illegal content or spam/floods are not allowed. at the opposite extreme are really strict communities where mods ban you for the slightest infraction, which I avoid. Doomworld is somewhere in the middle -- there are rules, but you only get into trouble here if you do it on purpose.

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42 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

Tbh I just joined the forums yesterday and im afraid to say pretty much anything after a post I was involved with got shut down because they didnt agree with my opinions.(imo it was a constructive conversation.)

The staff thought differently (Its hidden). I don't believe personally its a disagreement of opinion: If it were, it would be counteraddressed appropiately.

42 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

Also I dont get it why I can only do a certain amount of posts a day, I assume it's to avoid spamming.

That is the case. It does not last for long, however.
 

42 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

I feel though if I want to get to learn this community better I should be able to get to say more things so I can meet more people.  Yesterday just left a bad taste in my mouth and I hope that doesn't continue for me in the future on these forums.

Part of this falls or stands with your own behavior. In general, i feel you can speak out a lot, but the most important rule is to lay down why you think x is this or what you think of Y. Elaborate answers, rather than short oneliners.

 

That does not mean you have to do that constantly, but it should fit the tone of the thread. When people criticize your stance, elaborate: I have had some pretty direct callouts by longer lasting members and although i have not addressed them this directly (Because what's the point), it has definitely helped me to elaborate in a more neutral manner, even though admittely, its kind of tiring to explain things, haha :)

I hope the above helps. In short, the following summary can be made: Do not be a dick.

As long as you can meet that, you will do fine :)

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@EvelisH don't worry. for the first day, you get two posts. I asked Linguica (creator of Doomworld) about it (still waiting for a response), but within the hour, I had all the spamming I wanted to do! You'll be fine!

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1 minute ago, Redneckerz said:

 

Part of this falls or stands with your own behavior. In general, i feel you can speak out a lot, but the most important rule is to lay down why you think x is this or what you think of Y. Elaborate answers, rather than short oneliners.

 

 

So based on one post that I made you automatically assume that I speak out alot?  That is quite on the contrary tbh, im usually quite reserved unless I get worked up about something.  Im usually a person of few words in general.  I just dont want people to assume that all women think the same way when it comes to various social issues.  In the future ill keep that in mind when it comes to debates that perhaps I should elaborate a bit more when making counterpoints.  Im all down for keeping things civil at all times as well and I also have experience in moderating in different places so I will respect the rules of these forums, but ill definitely say something if I see that things are being contradicted.(Perhaps not directly in a thread but perhaps asking on a moderators input on something I see.)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Xcalibur said:

in general, every community has a different feel to it. I've spent a fair amount of time in places where it's basically a Wild West free-for-all, where trolling is embraced, and only flat-out illegal content or spam/floods are not allowed. at the opposite extreme are really strict communities where mods ban you for the slightest infraction, which I avoid. Doomworld is somewhere in the middle -- there are rules, but you only get into trouble here if you do it on purpose.

The ZDoom forums are notorious for having an out-of-mind moderation where the craziest mods appear out of nowhere -- people who have been inactive even for years -- to give you a permaban for stating your opinion on, e.g., a shitty movie. Also, mods engaging in political discussion -- which is generally forbidden as per the ZDF rules -- seemingly only to get others striked or banned for doing the same. They also block your IP address when they permaban you, so if someone interested in Doom happens to be with the same ISP as you are, get the permabanned IP address assigned, and then get on the ZDF page, they will invariably see the permaban message that only you are supposed to see. Very clever. Not.

In short: Of all the gaming communities I've been on since 1998, when I started using the Web, ZDF has been by far the one with the worst moderation.

 

Doomworld, OTOH, at least seems to have some rationale behind its acting and some kind of proper, points-based system. That's okay, but my general experience is that people with strong minds and strong opinions will get banned sooner or later if too many others get intellectually, or emotionally, overwhelmed by them, even without having committed any kind of rule-breaking.

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2 minutes ago, Get Phobo said:

even without having committed any kind of rule-breaking.

You'll notice Doomworld doesn't have a list of rules.

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1 minute ago, Edward850 said:

You'll notice Doomworld doesn't have a list of rules.

I was about to ask where the rules of conduct are located,  perhaps someone should suggest having that added.  It would make things alot more easier to avoid warnings.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

You'll notice Doomworld doesn't have a list of rules.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

I was about to ask where the rules of conduct are located,  perhaps someone should suggest having that added.  It would make things alot more easier to avoid warnings.

People get warnings the same reason they would in any real life establishment. Act as you would in real life, because nothing about the internet is fake. The people who get banned do so because they generally act anti-socially and people get sick of their general behaviour, not because they broke rule #27. You know, the same way a pub functions, the establishment will ask you to leave if you are clearly bothering other patrons even if you haven't broken any written rule just the same.

8 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

You'll notice that doesn't exist anymore, which is why you can only find it in archive.org. I'm not sure if it's actually the reason Linguica hasn't bothered to put anything like that back, but generally speaking any place that has rules will have people rules-lawyering.

Edited by Edward850

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Looking at the rules I saw it is located at a place where people might not look, I think it should be placed somewhere people can find it easily so anyone new can be able to locate it with ease.  By the way how is the best way to contact a mod?  Do I just DM any of them or is there a certain person I need to contact?

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1 hour ago, EvelisH said:

So based on one post that I made you automatically assume that I speak out alot?

 

Redneckerz was speaking generally, not talking about you in particular

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How to avoid warnings on doomworld:

be a decent human being.

 

why are we arguing about this again?

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1 hour ago, EvelisH said:

So based on one post that I made you automatically assume that I speak out alot? 

That's not what i am saying. I am saying that one can speak quite freely here.

1 hour ago, EvelisH said:

I just dont want people to assume that all women think the same way when it comes to various social issues.

I do not think that's the case here.

 

39 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

Do I just DM any of them or is there a certain person I need to contact?

You just DM them.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

That's not what i am saying. I am saying that one can speak quite freely here.

 

I didnt see that as true as when I tried to speak freely about something I believed and it was deleted.  So no I cannot speak freely.  I have to adhere to certain rules that dont seem to be clearly stated in the FAQ which is why I think it would be better for the rules to perhaps be made more clearly and not be so vague.  Also for it to be located somewhere where new users can find easily.   (sorry for the bad grammar its 1 am and im tired)

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3 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

I didnt see that as true as when I tried to speak freely about something I believed and it was deleted.

Then address this in a DM to the staff. Hence, i said quite, as obviously some topics are just off.

 

If you feel you were done wrong, message the staff. That's the best option now.

3 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

 

I have to adhere to certain rules that dont seem to be clearly stated in the FAQ which is why I think it would be better for the rules to perhaps be made more clearly not not be so vague.  Also for it to be located somewhere where new users can find easily.   

Don't be a dick is a general rule. If you feel your post was not you being a dick, address it with the staff.

 

Your wishes are loud and clear, so instead of repeating them, i feel your best bet at it is DMing the staff.

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4 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Then address this in a DM to the staff. Hence, i said quite, as obviously some topics are just off.

 

If you feel you were done wrong, message the staff. That's the best option now.

Don't be a dick is a general rule. If you feel your post was not you being a dick, address it with the staff.

 

Your wishes are loud and clear, so instead of repeating them, i feel your best bet at it is DMing the staff.

''Dont be a dick''is  way too vague plus its not very professional imo.  I help run a discord server with over 100k people in it and if we had a rule that stated that it would cause all sorts of messes and complaints.  Its best to cover all your bases so when someone breaks a rule you can explain to them properly what rule they broke.  Its only a suggestion and I have no problem forwarding it to a moderator in the future about any questions.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

''Dont be a dick''is  way too vague plus its not very professional imo. 

I disagree. Its pretty clear what that means, you just have to "feel" the tone of the thread.

 

Whether you find that unprofessional or not is your perjorative, but as long as i can recall, the "Dont be a dick" phrase is pretty clear cut. 

 

I feel you are starting to stretch things a bit for the sake of arguing. Please raise your complaint in DM  with the staff as that will net you possibly a better result.

Quote

I help run a discord server with over 100k people in it and if we had a rule that stated that it would cause all sorts of messes and complaints. 

DoomWorld is not your Discord server with 100k people in it, so the two aren't comparable.

Quote

Its best to cover all your bases so when someone breaks a rule you can explain to them properly what rule they broke.  Its only a suggestion and I have no problem forwarding it to a moderator in the future about any questions.

You know where to go to, by now.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

''Dont be a dick''is  way too vague plus its not very professional imo.  I help run a discord server with over 100k people in it and if we had a rule that stated that it would cause all sorts of messes and complaints.  Its best to cover all your bases so when someone breaks a rule you can explain to them properly what rule they broke.  Its only a suggestion and I have no problem forwarding it to a moderator in the future about any questions.

from iiluminaughti's discord (11k users at the very least, i have no idea what server you're helping run)
image.png.9f923f7951ff5fe3774ddee42e7c1208.png 

"don't be a dick" is mostly a colloquialism but you get the point, it's the same thing just with more words. also rule #1.

 

 

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Just now, Redneckerz said:


DoomWorld is not your Discord server with 100k people in it, so the two aren't comparable.

 

I believe its comparable, chats are moderated and we delete things that are innapropriate, yes it being discord there are some differences plus we have to adhere to discord TOS.  But theres also many similarities included.  I just believe transparency is important plus it would make the mods lives alot easier if things were more clear.  Yes at the end of the day all I can do is just DM one of them and ask which is what ill do.  I dont wanna get banned or warned, just want to find a place I can chat with fellow doomers.

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21 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

 I dont wanna get banned or warned, just want to find a place I can chat with fellow doomers.

here is a great place to talk with Doomers. Although, like @fraggle said, this is not a chat room. so stay away from awkward conversations like that. as a new member here on Doomworld, I recommend looking around a bit, and get to know your fellow Doomers a bit better. Even being here for two months, I still have a lot to learn. I just understood some writing techniques of a few people around here. Still, have fun looking through the topics! I hope to hear more from you, soon!

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Posted (edited)

Quite literally, don't be a dick covers any and all bases. It covers don't be a sexist, don't be racist, don't be a homophobe or transphobe, or even heterophobe, don't attack other people for no reason, or reasons that fall under some form of aformentioned phobias or biases. Be civil. That's all it means. If it's not something you would say in the company of other living, breathing human beings, it may be scrutinized. Doomworld is very lax in it's modding, the few times I've been warned, I deserved it. I was drunk, and shitposting for the lulz. If you get warned or banned here, there's probably a pretty goddamn good reason for it. And it probably relates to your past behavior on the site.

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1 hour ago, EvelisH said:

''Dont be a dick''is  way too vague plus its not very professional imo.  I help run a discord server with over 100k people in it and if we had a rule that stated that it would cause all sorts of messes and complaints.  Its best to cover all your bases so when someone breaks a rule you can explain to them properly what rule they broke. 

I can totally believe this is the case because sadly, far too many people seem to need "don't be a dick" spelled out for them.

 

I'm rather staggered at the sheer idea of a Discord server with 100,000 people on it, though. It sounds frankly unmanageable and I'm glad not to have that responsibility.

 

15 minutes ago, Jello said:

If you get warned or banned here, there's probably a pretty goddamn good reason for it. And it probably relates to your past behavior on the site.

Yes. It's pretty rare that anyone gets banned without multiple prior warnings and if they are, it's because there is immediate and undeniable proof that they are a colossal shithead.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, fraggle said:

I can totally believe this is the case because sadly, far too many people seem to need "don't be a dick" spelled out for them.

 

While the phrase does suggest a plea for common sense, not having a page with clearly defined rules may only become a more consistent issue over time. My old forum had this exact same issue for years, literally with the same "Don't Be A Dick" rule as the only defined rule, until it finally made a page with its rules written out clear as day because until they did, people simply poked holes and would use the excuse, "I don't see a rule anywhere saying I can't do the thing that got me in trouble so how was I supposed to know?". Be it for people who genuinely want to know how best to make sure they don't break any rules or those who think they can act like a victim because there's no available page for them to refer to, perhaps having an actual page with everything spelled out in plain English might be the best thing to do. Naturally, it's up to Ling and the rest of the staff, but I don't see it as an entirely bad idea.

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3 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

How to avoid warnings on doomworld:

be a decent human being.

 

why are we arguing about this again?

 

Seriously. If I'M still on DW you can be too, just don't be a moron. 

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3 hours ago, fraggle said:

Yes. It's pretty rare that anyone gets banned without multiple prior warnings and if they are, it's because there is immediate and undeniable proof that they are a colossal shithead.

Good thing I've only had 5 warning points in 2 months. Well, I'm DOOMed. 

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7 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

 

While the phrase does suggest a plea for common sense, not having a page with clearly defined rules may only become a more consistent issue over time. My old forum had this exact same issue for years, literally with the same "Don't Be A Dick" rule as the only defined rule, until it finally made a page with its rules written out clear as day because until they did, people simply poked holes and would use the excuse, "I don't see a rule anywhere saying I can't do the thing that got me in trouble so how was I supposed to know?". Be it for people who genuinely want to know how best to make sure they don't break any rules or those who think they can act like a victim because there's no available page for them to refer to, perhaps having an actual page with everything spelled out in plain English might be the best thing to do. Naturally, it's up to Ling and the rest of the staff, but I don't see it as an entirely bad idea.

I think another point I would like mention here is that ''Dont be a dick'' may be interpreted differently depending on where you live. In some cultures things that might not be considered so offensive in one place can be very offensive in other cultures.  I dont think it is fair for someone to get warned for something they might not understand because it may seem to be a norm from where they come from.  Im American, but I moved to Germany several years ago and I noticed that Germans can be very straight forward about things and at times I have found that offensive.  It is normal for Germans to be that way and they dont see it as offensive themselves, but for others it can be.  It took me a while to get used to that fact.  Im just using that as an example but there are many others.  I do agree with your points completely. 

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This entire talk over how "don't be a dick" is insufficient as a rule of thumb strikes me as unfounded. A warning point here literally means nothing other than "You've crossed a line you shouldn't have crossed", and going forward you know better and are able to act accordingly. A warning point literally means nothing else, and you're not going to get banned just because you have crossed an arbitrary threshold of points, either. So stop acting like you're walking on eggshells here, because that's just not how it is.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

This entire talk over how "don't be a dick" is insufficient as a rule of thumb strikes me as unfounded. A warning point here literally means nothing other than "You've crossed a line you shouldn't have crossed", and going forward you know better and are able to act accordingly. A warning point literally means nothing else, and you're not going to get banned just because you have crossed an arbitrary threshold of points, either. So stop acting like you're walking on eggshells here, because that's just not how it is.

 

Can second this. For a website like DW, it really is an unfounded worry.

 

Case on point: On my original forum getting warning points resulted in actual penalties - you wouldn't be able to post in certain places and that sort of thing anymore, until they expired, in addition to getting suspended once the user accumulated 5 points in a single month, all of which still active at the same time (they expired after 30 days). And the suspension period would double each time. First time it's 7 days, then 14, then 21, then 30.

 

Past that point a period of 30 days was added. Might as well get banned instead, which frankly no-one had managed to survive. Usually the users who managed to accumulate 5 points in a month were a bad omen, and sooner rather than later they got banned anyway.

Edited by seed

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

This entire talk over how "don't be a dick" is insufficient as a rule of thumb strikes me as unfounded. A warning point here literally means nothing other than "You've crossed a line you shouldn't have crossed", and going forward you know better and are able to act accordingly. A warning point literally means nothing else, and you're not going to get banned just because you have crossed an arbitrary threshold of points, either. So stop acting like you're walking on eggshells here, because that's just not how it is.

Thing is I dont want to get to the point of even receiving a warning in the first place.  Perhaps it might not mean anything to you but it might mean more to others.  How am I supposed to know how to act accordingly if the rules are too vague to begin with?  I certainly dont want a blemish on my record whether it means something or not.  Of course not being too sure of the rules here because of how non-specific they are do make me feel like im walking on egg shells especially since the first comment I ever made got shut down very quickly.  Also whats the point of even having a warning system if it means next to nothing?  It should have to mean something.

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5 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

Also whats the point of even having a warning system if it means next to nothing?  It should have to mean something.

I literally explained what the warning system is there for. It's an administrative tool for moderators to make users aware that they've pushed too hard. That's what a warning point means to the letter. If you get a warning point it says why the warning was issued, that's how you know what went wrong. I don't understand how that's such a complicated mechanic to grasp.

 

11 minutes ago, EvelisH said:

Of course not being too sure of the rules here because of how non-specific they are do make me feel like im walking on egg shells especially since the first comment I ever made got shut down very quickly.

That has nothing to do with warning points and moderation, I've seen what happened and where it happened, and at no point in the discussion I'm pointing towards have you been pressured by a moderator as far as I can tell. That's 100% a difference of opinion with another forum member, and it had nothing to do with a code of conduct, or a lack thereof. And if for some reason you think that registering to a forum just to make a point on a very controversial topic, which your husband already made for you, doesn't come across at least as suspicious, then sorry, but that is something you should have expected at the time.

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