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The Strife Commando

Has Doom Become More Popular Because Of The Doom Slayer?

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Everytime i read a Strife Commando thread i feel the question was pseudo-randomly generated. :P

 

In recent years its  Brutal Doom that revitalized activity and provided big time inspiration for Doom 2016 and Eternal. 2016 and Eternal definitely brought in a lot of new Doomers ready to be incorporated in the Borg cube known as DoomWorld.

 

Source ports definitely helped establish new standards for which mappers old and new could craft levels on. In terms of Oldskool Doom, Source ports are one of the most important assets.

 

The most important asset however is id Software's release of Doom Source Code all the way back in 1997, aswell as allowing third party users to craft new levels, and even encouraging doing so.

 

It simply cannot be understated how important and refreshening id's (and by that definition, Carmack's) open-source policy was regarding that. Its still an uncommon thing to do to this very day.

 

Without that policy, and without the development of legendary ports like Boom, MBF, ZDoom and Gabe Newell's WinDoom, this community would look very, very different.

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2 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

In recent years its  Brutal Doom that revitalized activity and provided big time inspiration for Doom 2016 and Eternal. 2016 and Eternal definitely brought in a lot of new Doomers ready to be incorporated in the Borg cube known as DoomWorld.

Didn't the cancelled Doom 4 have glory kills before Brutal Doom?



Edit: If by "The Slayer" you(op) mean the main character of the reboots it's clear that viral marketing with/and memes played a role in the last 4 years. The meme existed before but not as prevalent.
In the long run it was source ports that made the franchise popular, new-comers to the community as i've said before will just disappear as quickly if they don't have fresh gameplay provided to them.
Retweeting a meme does not really make one game popular if in return the actual player pool stays weak.
We must not forget the massive percentage of people who will talk about games online and watch streamers without actually launching said games regularly or at all...
The new games themselves provided what the market was kinda missing like fps campaigns with replay value and very fluid gameplay. These games didn't forget that gameplay has to provide some amount of pleasure.

Edited by Deimos

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35 minutes ago, Deimos said:

Didn't the cancelled Doom 4 have glory kills before Brutal Doom?

I recall that Doom 2016 had a clear inspiration from BD, not Call of Doom as it was mockingly described.

 

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2 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

I recall that Doom 2016 had a clear inspiration from BD, not Call of Doom as it was mockingly described.

 

Which ones?

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6 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

I recall that Doom 2016 had a clear inspiration from BD, not Call of Doom as it was mockingly described.

 

No it's exactly the other way around, they originated from the canned Doom 4 where they were called "synchronized executions", when they were much slower and clunkier - and that game preceds BD.

 

As for the topic, no I don't think that at all. Doomguy was already very popular in the '90s and maintained his reputation over the years. I doubt the evolution to Doom Slayer contributed to the notoriety of the series.

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4 minutes ago, Deimos said:

Which ones?

? Does not compute. Doom 2016, being inspired by Brutal Doom, is what i meant and said.

1 minute ago, seed said:

No it's exactly the other way around, they originated from the canned Doom 4 where they were called "synchronized executions", when they were much slower and clunkier - and that game preceds BD.

Ill concede then, but the general point still stands, i feel - that BD provided big time inspiration for 2016 and Eternal.

 

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1 minute ago, Redneckerz said:

? Does not compute. Doom 2016, being inspired by Brutal Doom, is what i meant and said.

Ill concede then, but the general point still stands, i feel - that BD provided big time inspiration for 2016 and Eternal.

 

I just asked for some examples, sorry for asking.

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Just now, Redneckerz said:

Ill concede then, but the general point still stands, i feel - that BD provided big time inspiration for 2016 and Eternal.

 

Which is factually incorrect.

 

That idea is mostly spread by people who haven't done their homework, played BD then moved to 2016/Eternal, saw the executions, and jumped to the conclusion that the mod inspired the game, which can't be farther from the truth.

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1 minute ago, seed said:

 

Which is factually incorrect.

 

That idea is mostly spread by people who haven't done their homework, played BD then moved to 2016/Eternal, saw the executions, and jumped to the conclusion that the mod inspired the game, which can't be farther from the truth.

I'll confess that when i first saw the Doom2016 gameplay i was a bit scared(BD never really clicked with me) and i naturally(and wrongly) drew some conclusions.

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I think it's because of the new games and those re-releases on PS/Xbox/Switch. I like them re-releases. (SLURP NOISES)

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1 minute ago, Deimos said:

I just asked for some examples, sorry for asking.

No worries, i was not agitated or anything.

1 minute ago, seed said:

 

Which is factually incorrect.

 

That idea is mostly spread by people who haven't done their homework, played BD then moved to 2016/Eternal, saw the executions, and jumped to the conclusion that the mod inspired the game, which can't be farther from the truth.

I feel i shouldn't take this personally although you obviously quote me with several assumptions :/

Full clarity - I recall that this was mentioned in some kind of official manner whether directly by id or by some spokesperson, and i remember that Mark was pretty boastful about the whole ordeal.

That's it really. 99% of the time i try to verify first - Here i didn't because i had a long day today.

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I believe DNF was the first game to feature first-person executions. Neither BD nor Doom 4 1.0 invented it. (I will subjectively state that BD's popularization of that catchphrase was picked off hard in Doom Eternal).


However, I believe BDv09 was the first version of the mod to feature executions, and I believe it was released before 2012.

2 hours ago, Pegg said:

Doom 4 and Eternal made the series popular among people who weren't even alive when the original was mainstream. And re-vitalized it for older fans. That's all.

Pretty much this.

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No I didn't work on Heretic if that's what you are asking :P.

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1 hour ago, Cacodemon345 said:

I believe DNF was the first game to feature first-person executions. Neither BD nor Doom 4 1.0 invented it.

 

I wonder though, if we could determine when exactly were these features added to DNF and Doom 4 1.0.

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They all ripped from Mortal kombat!!!

 

Midway called them ''Fatalities''.

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1 hour ago, seed said:

 

Which is factually incorrect.

 

That idea is mostly spread by people who haven't done their homework, played BD then moved to 2016/Eternal, saw the executions, and jumped to the conclusion that the mod inspired the game, which can't be farther from the truth.

Lazy Game Reviews is one of those people.

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Brutal Doom most likely had some part in the retooling of 4/2016 to what it was, but the executions had nothing to with it, more like "hey this mod for classic Doom is getting really popular, maybe a new Doom with fast action might be successful after all". I'm sure there are people at id who DID want to make something like 2016 and Eternal, but "keycards and mindless action" weren't seen as potentially profitable at that point.

 

The glory kills don't really come across as a Brutal Doom ripoff anyway; the way the movement and shooting transitions into glory kills comes across more as a first person version of Japanese action games, particularly ones developed by Clover/Platinum. Arcade Mode makes it more obvious, and I'm pretty sure Hugo Martin straight up said in interviews leading up to Eternal that he enjoys Devil May Cry and Bayonetta.


Takedown animations to get some health back was also a common mechanic in the 360/PS3 era, and that's most likely where Mark got the idea for Brutal Doom's executions from.

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I say it kinda, er, "ruined" the perception of Doom by creating new fans that refuse to believe Doom had horror elements from the start and that it was always about being the ultimate badass and not about surviving and becoming the ultimate badass as a bonus

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3 hours ago, The Nate said:

I say it kinda, er, "ruined" the perception of Doom by creating new fans that refuse to believe Doom had horror elements from the start and that it was always about being the ultimate badass and not about surviving and becoming the ultimate badass as a bonus

A reason I like the Marine more than the Slayer is that they're just a normal soldier rather than a god. The Marine surviving the infested holes of hell with his weapons and skills is an incredible feat.

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6 hours ago, The Nate said:

I say it kinda, er, "ruined" the perception of Doom by creating new fans that refuse to believe Doom had horror elements from the start and that it was always about being the ultimate badass and not about surviving and becoming the ultimate badass as a bonus

I think that just had more to do with the fact that Doom 3 aged fucking horribly as a both a horror game and a technical benchmark.

 

idTech 4 had amazing lighting but Half Life 2 was pushing more polygons on average, and flat out destroyed id at enviromental interaction, while running better than Doom 3 to boot. As a horror game, 2004-2007 saw the release of horror shooters like The Suffering, F.E.A.R., Condemned, Resident Evil 4, and Dead Space that played just as well but thematically were more disturbing/unnerving than anything in Doom 3. When a game that was meant to bring back the horror aspect to Doom failed at the horror, why wouldn't you go back to the action? People were calling for a future Doom game to be more action-oriented for years before Brutal Doom was even a twinkle in Mark's eye.

Edited by mammajamma

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If anything, I would say that the failure of DNF was one of the reasons that caused id guys to switch over to action-oriented gameplay. The glory kills mechanic would be drowned/unnoticeable due the bad aspects of the game alone.

 

If anything, IMO, BD was the only Doom mod that introduced the idea of executions at the right time when it was still in a good shape. I don't think any other FPS games from retro-FPS franchises at that time would be able to shine, if you consider only DNF and Doom 4 1.0. (I know about that ROTT remake, but I haven't played it, so can't really say anything about that).

On 5/13/2020 at 1:33 AM, P41R47 said:

They all ripped from Mortal kombat!!!

 

Midway called them ''Fatalities''.

It's literally the same company publishing Doom 64, lol. The story of which is continued by the recent Doom games, featuring glory kills.

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5 minutes ago, Cacodemon345 said:

It's literally the same company publishing Doom 64, lol.

The same main developers of PSX DOOM & DOOM 64, no less. (Midway was owned by Williams (now WMS Games) until 1998.)

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4 hours ago, Cacodemon345 said:

If anything, I would say that the failure of DNF was one of the reasons that caused id guys to switch over to action-oriented gameplay. The glory kills mechanic would be drowned/unnoticeable due the bad aspects of the game alone.

 

The connection between the two beats me honestly. I'm just not really seeing any common ground between DNF and Doom 4 1.0, not even the executions, or rather, the way they were implemented in that game, the final product does bear a stronger resemblance.

 

At any rate, the reason why Doom 4 1.0 "failed" IMO was mostly because it just wasn't really Doom, and not because DNF didn't live up to the expectations, since basically no-one still seriously expected it to turn out good after the monstrous hell it went though at the time anyway. There was too much inspiration from military shooters in it, it was very slow, its plot didn't really work with the silly resistance and whatnot, and so on. It looked too much like Battlefield with demons. It may not have actually been a bad game per se, but its nature wouldn't have quite done justice to the name.

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No doubt it brought the attention of many people to Doom in general. I myself "remembered" about Doom thanks to Doom 2k16.

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