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Cheesewheel

CPD - LIMIT REMOVING DOOM2 MEGAWAD (FINAL RELEASE)

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Only solidly made it through MAP01 so far, but it plays very nicely. The secrets are all pretty intuitive as you play through the map and wonder how to get to them, and I think they add a lot to the level. I'm not a huge fan of killing revenants with a shotgun, but overall I feel the encounters were well balanced. I wouldn't mind a little bit of monster variety in the imp hallway at the NW of the map, since with just the shotgun gunning down imps alone gets a bit tedious. While the detailing isn't particularly extreme, in my opinion the maps look very nice. I'll definitely continue playing through these as I get the opportunity.

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18 hours ago, Isquilt said:

Only solidly made it through MAP01 so far, but it plays very nicely. The secrets are all pretty intuitive as you play through the map and wonder how to get to them, and I think they add a lot to the level. I'm not a huge fan of killing revenants with a shotgun, but overall I feel the encounters were well balanced. I wouldn't mind a little bit of monster variety in the imp hallway at the NW of the map, since with just the shotgun gunning down imps alone gets a bit tedious. While the detailing isn't particularly extreme, in my opinion the maps look very nice. I'll definitely continue playing through these as I get the opportunity.

 

Interesting, thank you for playing the first map. I originally had a mix of zombies and imps in the corridor but the infighting made it trivial. Ideally, the player should not have enough ammo to just stand there and shoot them and would have to take the side tunnels to scavenge shells and risk being trapped by the imps but I couldn't get this ammo balance right without having too much pistol before that which would be even more boring!

 

Your comment about the secrets is noted as well, I have a bad habit of chucking in secrets after the map has finished (which is evident in the later maps) but looking back I do agree with you that they do add a lot of interest and forces the player to explore the whole enviroment.

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Added a 5th map, custom sky and dehacked patch with level names.

 

MAP05 is probably the best yet with lots of secrets and encounters to fight through!

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those screenshots look lovely! you don't see a ton of bright blue skies like that in Doom, but I really love the atmosphere it provides

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Pretty tough opening level - plenty of hitscanners and not enormous amounts of health, but the balance is probably about right. I noticed a couple of things:

 

Is the player really supposed to be able to fall through that apparently solid barrier above the red key room? It creates a bit of a problem if you do so before activating the switch at the top of the lift, making the first half of the map inaccessible.

 

 

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Also, a pink demon often gets stuck here:

 

 

CPD3.png.749630d33eac31d3c5210d090ee7acfb.png

 

 

Edited by Summer Deep

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MAP02: Good challenging stuff again, could have done with a health pack or two in that Revenant arena, it's getting a bit tedious having to use two or three shotgun shells every time on the pinkies (but maybe I've missed a secret chainsaw?), not sure why there are two yellow keys in the final section.

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8 hours ago, Summer Deep said:

MAP02: Good challenging stuff again, could have done with a health pack or two in that Revenant arena, it's getting a bit tedious having to use two or three shotgun shells every time on the pinkies (but maybe I've missed a secret chainsaw?), not sure why there are two yellow keys in the final section.

 

Thank you for playing the maps and finding some oversights, it really helps!

 

I think I am going to put in a beserk secret in MAP02 and I will take a look at health items too.

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I've now played the remaining three maps. 

 

MAP03 was fine. Well laid out, pretty tough but very playable. Was a bit dubious about having to berserk-punch the Revenants in that cramped area with a damaging floor, as it's something I wouldn't normally do, but after a couple of attempts I got the hang of it. The final area is very hazardous, but good fun - I was clinging on by my fingernails for part of this, and though I'd found the blue armour secret, really needed to have got the Soulsphere one.

 

MAP04: visually a bit bland and cavernous, maybe, but not too bad. Ending a bit of a letdown, as you can just run past the HKs and pink demons to the exit.

 

MAP05: The difficulty here comes from the scarcity of ammo and health in the first half of the map. Get past the Revenant room, and both of these problems diminish. I actually found it easier to complete from a pistol start, as playing continuously with just 57% health at the start was barely manageable, although the ammo situation was better. You seem to quite like Revenants!

 

I thought that the second and third levels were the best in this set. Very enjoyable overall, no serious problems that I could discern.

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9 hours ago, Summer Deep said:

I've now played the remaining three maps.

 

I agree with your opinion of MAP04, it's pretty boring from a gameplay perspective now that I look back at it. I've got plans to redesign MAP04 from the ground up and turn it into a smaller, faster map.

Edited by Cheesewheel

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New update!

 

MAP04 has been remade into a much much shorter and punchier map.

MAP06 added - explore the cargo bay to reach the Summit!

MAP07 added - Battle at the summit of the mountain to reach the tunnels below.

Beserk secret added to MAP02.

 

Some custom graphics added for map names.

 

A little story has been written to tie the maps together.

 

Make sure to run with the included .deh patch.

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Another update!

 

MAP08 added, explore the lost tunnels underneath the mountain!

 

Using a set of textures outside of my comfort zone. I find marble and general hell architecture much harder than techbase stuff.

 

Spoiler

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CPD.zip

 

 

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This continues to be a very solid playing experience, in my view.

 

MAP04: Not recognizable at all from the original. A good test from a UV pistol start. Very tricky finishing section.

 

MAP06: Also played this from a UV pistol start, and again a decent test. Gameplay became pretty tense as the health and ammo began to run low around halfway through, but this is a point in its favour.

 

MAP07: Surprised to see the wad going in the direction of slaughter here (not my kind of thing at all). The AV who shows up in the second wave is a real pain, and it's often difficult to work out where he is. Thank goodness there's only one such creature here! There was an issue with this map actually, in that the spawning of the monsters in the slaughter arena is extremely erratic: sometimes the process would start in the first twenty or thirty seconds, sometimes it took longer, and occasionally it failed to start at all - I ended up wandering around for several minutes without anything happening.

 

MAP08: Not much to say, again very solid and fairly tricky in places. One of the secrets was a little mystifying (that strange 'cubby hole' thing), still not sure what it contained as it's so dark. It also looks somewhat incongruous, a bit like a black square of masking tape placed over a hole in the wall!

 

 

CPD5.png.8a260f01a42e236e9fd0d58c0356c679.png

 

 

 

Edited by Summer Deep

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18 hours ago, Summer Deep said:

This continues to be a very solid playing experience, in my view.

 

Thanks for all this and for sticking with this project, the feedback is really useful as I have this awful feeling that this is going to turn into a megawad...

 

I've looked at the teleports in MAP07 and surprise...! They were really poorly done and relied on the player picking up the SSG to start the fight. I don't know why I made that decision but in hindsight it doesn't make any sense.

 

I looked at the secret in MAP08 and changed it up a little to be a bit less odd.

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On 5/30/2020 at 6:31 AM, Bryan T said:

Ammo is tight but other than that it was smooth sailing. https://youtu.be/8SRVCJ05ZMw

 

Brilliant video! So useful to see how you traverse the levels. I can only really chalk up your ammo issues to the gameplay modification but it did seem that MAP02 was the only big issue so that might need rectifying on my end.

 

In other news, MAP09 is fully finished and MAP10 is currently in polishing stages. I will get a map11 done aswell and then get it compiled as 'part 1' of this project.

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44 minutes ago, Cheesewheel said:

it did seem that MAP02 was the only big issue

That was the gist of my initial post. I edited it out as I'm sure you've done your own testing and found it sufficient.

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New update - 3 new maps!

 

MAP09 - Monument, Fight through more ruins to get closer to the source of the invasion.

MAP10 - Stronghold, Inspired by NRFTL's vivisection, blast your way through a marble stronghold.

MAP11 - Disinfection, Clean out the source of the invasion in a flesh/marble style catacomb.

Spoiler

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This is 'part 1' complete of this project for now. I am pretty doomed out and will take a little break before working on maps 11-20 which I already have several sketches of. Thank you to everybody who has played so far and helped me iron bugs and odd bits (which i'm sure this release probably still has).

Edited by Cheesewheel

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Playing through on UV continuously.

 

Map 1 - Pretty tough, but fun.

 

Map 2 - This crusher seemed to get stuck when Demons ran under it. This map is pretty difficult and I was crying out for a SSG for a lot of it.

 

Map 3 - I almost feel like this needs to be swapped around with the previous map, though thematically I guess that may not work. The difficulty is quite comparable, but the addition of the SSG meant overall I found it a bit easier than the previous map.

 

Map 4 - I wasn't expecting the exit to be where it was, so I was a bit surprised when the map ended. Could maybe use some better signposting.

 

Overall this is proving to be quite challenging, even on a continuous playthrough. It pretty much necessitates the finding of some secrets otherwise health becomes a huge concern. I wonder if placing of a couple of extra Stimpacks in Maps 2 and 4 might help with that a bit.

 

This is really enjoyable overall so far, will play through the rest soon.

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Map 5 - Nothing much to say except I wish I had a Backpack by now.

 

Map 6 - Again not much to say, still wishing I had a Backpack.

 

Map 7 - Infighting can take care of a lot of this map for you, but I liked the AV placement here. Wish I had a Backpack...

 

Continued...

 

Maps 8, 9, 10 - Again not much to say here!

 

Map 11 - I knew a Cyberdemon would be in this map! I finally found a Backpack in a secret, which was nice.

 

I don't have many comments because the maps were extremely enjoyable, if somewhat challenging. The only comment I have is that I really wanted a non-secret Backpack before Map 11. (There may have been one I missed, but Map 11 was the first one I found) If you haven't got one by then, I really think it should be a non-secret in Map 11, but a secret in an earlier map. (If there isn't one already)

 

Fantastic work though! I really hope more people play through this and give you some feedback, and I'll definitely be checking out more maps in this project when you've completed them!

Edited by Degree23

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Have now played maps 9-11. Looking very promising at this stage!

 

MAP09 - Did this from a UV pistol start, and was delighted to have completed it on the first attempt, no saves. It was actually a great challenge, and I was down to 4% health at one point. What made it particularly tough was that I was without a chainsaw or a Berserk powerup, and ended up using a vast amount of shotgun shells on pink demons and spectres. Couldn't find a rocket launcher either, so that by the end I had just a handful of shells and bullets, but 28 rockets. A minor epic of a level though, hope you don't change it very much, if at all.

 

MAP10 - Every bit as good as the previous one, and a little more colourful. Didn't get the RL until right at the end, so still didn't manage to fire any rockets, but then found the hidden entrance to that area, which makes the map a lot less linear and opens up the route to a more adventurous strategy, especially for pistol starters. The only thing I could question would be the imps behind the bars at the end of the main corridor - I don't think their huge number makes them any more threatening than four or five of them would've been, and they were easy to pick off with the shotgun or chaingun.

 

MAP11 - Very solid throughout, but not too sure about the slaughter encounter near the end. Took me about ten attempts to get past it, but I think it's largely a matter of luck as much as anything as to whether you can find a way through the mass of enemies, and you have to hope that at least one or two of the AVs get killed through infighting, though I suppose you do need some idea of what you're supposed to be doing! Might be more interesting with around twice the amount of space in that small arena. Those areas in the corners are useful though in being a refuge from the Cyberdemon.

 

Seems to be some sort of death exit at the end. I still had most of my megasphere points, and emerged at the start of the next level with 2% health and 5% armour, and all weapons and ammo intact. Have to wonder how that's meant to work out....

 

Edited by Summer Deep

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Thank you @Summer Deep and @Degree23 for continued playing and feedback, the positivity and thoughts really help with the creation process.

 

In regards to the final slaughter fight in map11, I find it gets a lot easier if you kill all the Barons that descend first, then you can camp and rotate the corners and plasma hose through the hordes.

 

About the backpack... originally MAP04 had a secret backpack which I removed . I find it difficult to decide when to introduce such a powerful item.

 

For a preview of the hell maps I am constructing I had a thought... All this invasion planning must mean that the forces of hell have some sort of admin wing of their organisation. Cue the map 'bad business' featuring evil lawyers having board meetings whilst floating in space - classic hell stuff! It's somewhere in the middle of MAP11-20, haven't decided yet.

 

I am trying to go beyond traditional fire and brimstone and get a little bit reality bending with the hell stuff (but there is still fire and brimstone stuff too!)

 

Spoiler

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So, I played through this on UV, and for the most part pistol starts.

 

MAP01: It feels like Ep1 with more revenants, really. At first, I would've considered that a bad thing, but after playing MAP02 and MAP05 I think it's quite nice. The new opening area definitely helps, and I think the monster balance in the northwest hallway feels nicer now.

 

My one complaint is that the rocket launcher is a pretty horrible health trade when you first get access to it. The cacodemons that come in when you pick up the yellow key are very likely to block the tag-15 lift you need to get off the damaging floor, so going for the rocket launcher is something like 40 damage from the floor while forcefully shoving yourself into melee with cacodemons. Not to mention, autoswitching to the rocket launcher, when the best weapon you have for cacos in melee is probably the chaingun. In my opinion, just putting the rocket launcher on a non-damaging tiny platform would alleviate most of the pain: instead, you get to dodge cacodemon fireballs and maybe the mancubus on the south platform while standing on a tiny platform surrounded by damaging floors.

 

I guess you could also just not go for the rocket launcher when you first get access to it, but the flow by the yellow key makes it pretty tempting for a first attempt.

 

MAP02: The first revenant fight killed me like 10 times, and then I learned how to fight revenants. Thanks! It's actually a lot of fun, and the map makes really good use of that arena with the second fight. The berserk secret was a welcome addition. One minor thing that stuck out to me: floor texture under the blue key door doesn't match its surroundings. The mancubus fight in the slime pit is a good use of the timing of the radiation suit, and it gets very tense if you don't know how few spectres there actually are. Check the teleport closet for the archvile ambush though, it looks like the archvile and both revenants are set to spawn on Easy.

 

MAP03: Yikes, this one's hard. Even just making it through the first room without taking damage is a luck based mission, so you might want to put a medkit at the end of MAP02 or the beginning of MAP03 just to make life a little easier for continuous players who might have had bad luck with health. Ammo balance is definitely a bit tight here. The berserk pack ambush is a bit tedious, I think, since you're fighting two revenants with a shotgun starting from the pistol start. I guess if you're feeling brave berserk pack would be faster, but I don't feel confident trading health for ammo in this map. The soul sphere secret is a bit weird, being unmarked like that. I did find it, but only after exhausting all other options.

 

MAP04: This one's nice. Very fast paced, very good flow, and yet forces you to be careful about how you move. Aside from the teleport hallways (starting at tag 20), I think this map plays very well. The hallways though, I think are a bit dull, both to look at and play. The final ambush in that segment with enemies from both sides is a lot more interesting.

 

MAP05: This map is tough, but from the intro to the outro I think it does a very good job of establishing the theme I've started to see in the mapset. The outdoor arena is very well used, with the arachnotrons -> hell knights -> archviles progression in the 3 fights that take place there. As far as the secrets go though, if you want people to explore the slime area, putting a radiation suit somewhere would help a lot. The revenant fight is tactically pretty much the same as MAP02's, but in a tighter space. It's still fun though.

 

MAP06: This makes me think Ep1 with more chaingunners and mancubi again. There's a nice sense of discovery and exploration in this map, though I think the outside area overuses METAL1 a bit. The area behind the Tag 25 pillars is a bit harder to spot, and breaks up the flow a little bit. Maybe release a cacodemon from there when the switch is flipped, or a few more blinking lights?

 

MAP07: Easy? No. Short and sweet? Yes. I was surprised at how few tries this one actually took me. The balance here is pretty nice, and honestly I don't know how much I'd call it a difficulty spike. I'd say MAP03's still harder in general from a pistol start, and that MAP05's harder to conserve resources to survive the archvile fight in.

 

MAP08: And now we're back into the part where we'd figure the UAC would've learned not to mess with demonic artifacts, but they clearly didn't and instead dove head first into grabbing as many as they could. Good themes. Those crushers though. That soulsphere secret looks like it'd be something you could only ever expect someone to find by accident, unless they were paying very close attention to the automap. Nice lighting near the red key. The red key ambush itself wasn't too bad at all. The interconnectedness of this level is nicely done too, and it's really just the low availability of ammo that makes it more softly linear than non-linear.

 

MAP09: This map throws a lot of things in front of you, especially around the yellow key. It almost makes things too manageable. I'd personally appreciate a few more ambushes from each direction (e.g. end of MAP11, if maybe not at that high of an intensity most of the time). Overall, the map plays well, but I feel like it's a little less interesting gameplay wise than the previous ones.

 

MAP10: This map really makes clearing out the many, many monsters more an excercise in methodology than tedium. There's a lot of chaingunners to keep an eye out for in the outdoors segments, and even when you think you're safe there's cacodemons to terrorize everywhere with windows. At first I was getting a bit annoyed because I didn't even realize what was killing me, but at this point I'm honestly impressed at just how many places the cacodemons can project force onto. As a point of being needlessly cruel to players, I'd recommend making the red door a D1 Stay instead of a DR Raise, just so that if a player decides to retreat to get more supplies when they realize "suddenly archvile", they have to deal with letting the archvile roam the map. I would've hated it, but at the same time I would absolutely have understood.

 

MAP11: There's a few missing textures in the final outdoor area that could plausibly be noticed. I feel like the yellow key area is also a bit sparse, and was expecting a bigger fight for grabbing the blue key. The fight in the blue key area is clearly the memorable point of the map. That fight took me less tries than a continuous run of MAP03 did. Things ease up after both arch-viles are dead and the cyberdemon is finally able to start helping. Finally getting the backpack in this level is nice too.

 

In summary: I had a lot of fun with all of these maps -- they aren't super pretty or detailed, but they're definitely fun to play and while I can't quite put my finger on it yet there is a really consistent theme about them that's nice to experience. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

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On 6/10/2020 at 8:47 PM, Isquilt said:

...

 

Thank you so much for this review of the project so far. Really appreciate the time you took to write this all up!

 

Progress continues on another hell map named 'Infernal Archives', a trap filled romp through a hellish library. It needs a hefty detail sweep but plays out in a more exploration focused style as opposed to the other map shown earlier 'bad business' which is very fast paced!

 

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NEW UPDATE - 9 NEW HELL THEMED MAPS READY FOR TESTING! SEE ORIGINAL POST FOR DOWNLOAD LINK.

 

I've been busy working away on these new maps for this project. The demons have shipped you off to hell and you need to fight your way out! Traverse through hell keeps, corrupted UAC bases and flesh infested space stations to find a way back to earth!

 

MAP12 - I LIVE AGAIN! You're awake and really goddamn angry! Taking inspiration from blood, ascend and tear your way through this hellish outpost.

 

MAP13 - RED KEEP Transported to a large hellish canyon surrounded by an evil fortress. Find a way in and clear it out.

 

MAP14 - BAD BUSINESS This is where the demons have been planning the invasion with their hellish cronies! Blast through this floating centre and put a stop to their planning.

 

MAP15  INFERNAL ARCHIVES Some sort of hellish library... explore your environment and find a way out!

 

MAP16 POWERTRIP Load up on rockets and plasma and go wild in this short, fast paced map filled with demons.

 

MAP17 BLOODWALK Another citadel drenched in gore, easy work, get going!

 

MAP18 BASTION Some sort of overrun UAC outpost. How were they able to make this in hell?! The spaceship in the hangar might be your ticket home...

 

MAP19 HELLSTATION Just as expected, the spacestation is overrun. Clean it out, keep moving, you must be getting close.

 

MAP20 GATEWAYS This is it, the portal back to earth! Shame about the horde of demons and locked doors in the way. Blast through it and get out of there!

 

Screenshots below!

 

Spoiler

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Currently these maps have not been tuned for difficulty and probably contain a few visual bugs and gameplay glitches. Let me know which ones you find because I'm sure there are plenty.

 

Making these maps was new territory for me. I had my own recipe for techbase maps but this stuff was really challenging. Hopefully they are enjoyable and action packed.

 

One more thing, I really reccomend you use a good midi soundfont. Quite a few of the midis in this pack sound great with a good font, but pretty terrible without one.

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Made it through three maps so far, pistol start UV-max. I'm liking the theme of these new levels, and hopefully I'll find the time to play the rest of them soon. Here's my comments so far:

 

MAP12: This is a fun map and I think it uses the berserk powerup quite well. It's not exactly easy, but it's less challenging than most of part 1's maps just because it's a little bit more limited in what can practically be done due to the ammo constraints. I don't think this is a bad thing though. The health balance worked out very nicely for me, with health pickups showing up at the very last possible moment but at the same time just in time each time. I really liked how the areas intertwined with each other.

 

MAP13: One progression-breaking issue: The red key door is single-use on the outside, but it closes automatically. If you don't enter, you can get stuck outside of it. Would probably be better served by a W1 Close Door special instead as you enter. The arenas in this map are fun, but I was surprised at how easy the second one is compared to the first. If you figure out what you're doing though, they're both very easy to beat and still pretty satisfying to pump rockets into. Ammo in this map is probably overly plentiful, especially shotgun shells.

 

MAP14: That's a really hot start, wow. At the same time, the pacing on this map is exhilarating. A lot of fun, but it's definitely harder than 12 and 13 by a long shot. The theme of this map really stands out too. The arena fight wasn't too bad so long as you let the chaingunners accumulate a bit before trying to rocket them. It could probably be made a little bit easier without sacrificing the fun, but at the same time, I enjoyed it as is. I didn't like the very last revenant fight. Fighting 4 revenants on an open, narrow bridge with no cover in the direction they're firing from is a bit mean, and I felt like I had to actually retreat for once just to get a workable position. In my opinion, it kinda throws off the otherwise breakneck pace of the map where you can hardly move 10 feet without finding more ammo and more targets. Overall though, it's the map I like the most so far.

 

The use and re-use of level geometry is very nice, and I particularly liked the hell-base and eldritch elements in MAP14. The maps all flow really well, and I haven't found myself getting lost in them at all. Will post more as I get around to playing the rest.

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4 minutes ago, Isquilt said:

...

 

Great to hear you are enjoying them so much!

 

MAP15 has a damaging floor bug that I just fixed and updated the OP with, so make sure you get than when you have the chance.

 

Looking forward to the rest of your thoughts.

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I gave this try on UV in GZdoom 4.4.2 and it was fun to play, not exactly easy, but also not every-fight-has-at-least-two-archviles hard like is becoming the norm these days. There were two nasty peaks in difficulty, first the cyber/vile trap in MAP11 and second at the start of MAP16, maybe these could be toned down. Also, I noticed some problems along the way:

 

MAP02: misaligned textures in sector 72.

 

MAP03: many misaligned textures in the exit room.

 

MAP05: misaligned textures in sectors 452 and 454 and on linedef 1608.

 

MAP09: misaligned texture on linedef 2118 when the lift is down.

 

MAP10: misaligned textures outside sector 275. Sector 270 IMO shouldn't lower permanently, players may miss exit door switch if they play without mouselook.

 

MAP15: cacodemons 155 and 156 are trapped inside sector 224. Isn't sector 34 supposed to be secret?

 

MAP17: two cacodemons never teleported from sector 301, though I have no idea why.

 

MAP19: Sector 139 shouldn't be secret. I couldn't kill cacodemon 316, it was floating out of view in the cornes of sector 155.

 

MAP20: misaligned scrolling textures on linedefs 2152, 2160 etc.

 

And GZdoom complains some linedefs have no first sidedef in a few maps.

 

In any case, I hope you plan to expand this to a full megawad.

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3 hours ago, Caleb13 said:

...

 Hey thanks for the detailed report, I hope you enjoyed the mapset.

I have updated the op with a new version based on your feedback.

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