If you were to add any monster in DOOM Classic.

[HorrorMovieRei]

I second an unarmed/civilian/scientist zombie. Even if they ended up being mostly weak fodder, and while I do believe every monster should have a niche, I also think one or two set-dressing monsters are okay most of the time. How cool would city maps look if they had more undead civies walking around?

[Master O]

On 5/18/2020 at 9:53 PM, ZeMystic said:

The DOOM II bestiary is a work of art, being recognizable from a distance. You've heard the spiel before, so I'm not gonna continue preaching what you already know.

If you were to add any monster in DOOM Classic, what would it be? What would it look like, what does it do, etc?

 

 

PigCops from Duke 3D and the Headless Suicide Bombers from Serious Sam

[Aaron Blain]

I disagree with the often-repeated view that enemies need to be qualitatively different. One of my other all-time favorite games is Archon (I recommend the NES version), a game which is mostly 'imps' shooting at each other, but little differences in projectile speed, hitbox size, walk speed, hitpoints, etc., create a range of interesting gameplay.

 

In E1-style maps you need imps and demons to absorb ammo. I think it would be cool to have base/city maps that were all zombies, but you can't balance ammo with only troopers and sergeants.

 

I like Former Scientists, but they're usually fast high-damage enemies. I think Doom could support just a touch of zombie apocalypse gameplay. Hard Doom 1 maps have a very slight survival horror feel.

[ZeMystic]

BIG SPECTRE ARCHVILE

 

[Chip]

Just now, ZeMystic said:

BIG SPECTRE ARCHVILE

 

I just had a mini heart attack, then a stroke.

I don't even have any pre-existing conditions. 

[Mangcubus]

14 hours ago, Macblain said:

Former human civilians.

 

Melee zombiemen that are slower and take up more space than demons (used in large numbers), that don't drop anything. There would be very little incentive to kill them, but they would control space and apply slow pressure.

Kinda like the zombies in Doom 3? It could work.

[Chezza]

A teleporting Demon like the Wraith in Doom 3. It would serve a similar role to the pinkie except it can teleport past some obstacles / platforms but with a trade off of being notably weaker.

 

A weaker but fast flying demon. Its abilities are similar to cacodemons but are notably faster, good for building quick pressure.

 

Both these demons exist in mod form within Realm 667.

 

[Job]

Probably the PE or archvile. I'm being realistic on additions and feel either would fit well with the dynamic of Doom 1. Plus, the archvile had his bas relief on walls all over the place. 

[slayermbm]

The super imp from Valiant would be a nice addition. A imp with a darker shade of brown, more spikes and faster projectiles (firing always 2 at the same time). The super demon (basically a faster demon with mechanized legs and no eyes) from the same wad is also cool.

 

[scalliano]

Plasma Zombie.

 

I first encountered this guy in Titan which was the first dedicated ZDoom mod I ever played. I just think it's a great late-game fodder enemy and slots right in alongside the stock bestiary.

[Aaron Blain]

Yeah you see the same gameplay additions creeping into the relatively "pure" mapsets. Demon with a faster bite, something other than the standard bosses, maybe a different flying thing.

 

Hot take: Valiant is so good.

 

I think there's a case to be made that the vanilla bestiary isn't so perfect that there's nothing to be added or refined.

[magicsofa]

6 hours ago, Macblain said:

I think there's a case to be made that the vanilla bestiary isn't so perfect that there's nothing to be added or refined.

Oh no you DIDNT

[TheLoneliness]

 A strong flying enemy, that's really the only enemy which I feel is needed for vanilla doom.

[Maximum Matt]

A different player model for the hell knight, instead of a goddamn baron with a paint job.  

[Mangcubus]

7 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

A different player model for the hell knight, instead of a goddamn baron with a paint job.  

That's one of the things I really liked about Doom 2016. It did a good job of distinguishing Knights from Barons.

[Gez]

What monsters have been added:

• Doom 3
  • Many civilian zombie variants
  • Zombies with shields
  • Tentacle commando zombie
  • Teleporting imp (wraith)
  • Lurching imp (maggot)
  • Small pests that are hard to hit due to their tiny teeny hitbox (trite, tick, and also this game's version of the lost souls)
  • Charge monster (cherub, some imps)
  • Pinky is basically a different monster type from its classic counterpart, but it's hard to give it a niche. Glass cannon melee thing?
  • Boss with telekinetic attack (vagary)
  • Boss with minion summoning (guardian)
  • Gonna leave the bruiser and hunters out, they're weird
• Doom 2016
  • Melee zombies, shield zombies, kinda like Doom 3
  • Exploding zombies (possessed engineers)
  • Hell razer with their beam attack
  • Cyber-mancubus
  • Hell guard boss
  • Bullet hell variant of the Spider Mastermind
  • Summoner
  • Pinky is once again a different thing, this time the charging bull you gotta dodge and peg in the back.
• Doom Eternal
  • Flying imp (gargoyle)
  • Wall spam zombie thing (carcass)
  • Upgraded Hell knight (dread knight)
  • Lurching, teleporting imp (prowler is basically wraith + maggot, it even looks like a Doom 3 monster more than a NuDoom monster)
  • Fast melee monster that's hard to hit due to very low hitbox and fast movement, and tries to get in your back (whiplash)
  • Shield-based boss and minibosses (gladiator, marauders)
  • Gonna leave the maykr drones aside, they're weird.

[CultofPixels]

I would go for scarabs. Really small weak creatures by themselves, but they come in huge packs so you better hope you have enough ammo when they show up. 

[Aaron Blain]

Yeah, so, I do regard Doom as The Best Videogame By Far, but I don't hold it entirely sacred. There was a lot of care and design savvy that went into Doom's mechanics. Romero says he worked on, what, 80-90 games before Doom? But Doom has also had more collective gameplay hours put into it than most other games in history. You can see this consistent drift in contemporary mapping that suggests that the community is iterating on Doom 2 in much the same way that Doom 2 iterated on Doom 1. Pinkies are ineffective, the pistol is irrelevant, the boss monsters don't add much to the gameplay, etc.

 

I enjoy phenomenon of 'one little change' in high-profile near-purist mapsets. A fun SS replacement and maybe one tweaked weapon. What are some good DEH-based 'guest-star' monsters we've seen pop up repeatedly? Plasma marine is fun. I love Scalliano's scientists but I haven't seen them in Vanilla format.

 

Also: I think Doom's baseline reflex requirements are calibrated to 1993 keyboard-only players, so it's fairly common to see just a touch of '-fastmonsters' baked in to gameplay tweaks. I think this caused feature/challenge creep and made Doom 2, dare I say it, slightly bloated.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Macblain

[xdarkmasterx]

Sniperdemon: Hitscan cyberdemon (same damage and accuracy)

 

Mimic: Replaces a random weapon pickup. Blows up like a barrel if you try to collect it.

 

Railgun Zombie: Nuff said.

 

Ahr'Yhuukidin-Mie: Flying Archvile-Pain Elemental hybrid with Spectre's invisibility effect. Has the combined speed, abilities and HP of all three monsters.

[Aaron Blain]

2 minutes ago, xdarkmasterx said:

Sniperdemon: Hitscan cyberdemon (same damage and accuracy)

 

Mimic: Replaces a random weapon pickup. Blows up like a barrel if you try to collect it.

 

I think a Possessed Sniper would be a fairly easy Decorate baddie that would create a weaker form of Archvile-style hitscan pressure, without the high hp and resurrection. Instead of the flames you'd get a floating red dot.

 

Rekkr has mimics and they're great.

[Anonymous777]

On 5/20/2020 at 12:26 PM, Macblain said:

Former human civilians.

 

Melee zombiemen that are slower and take up more space than demons (used in large numbers), that don't drop anything. There would be very little incentive to kill them, but they would control space and apply slow pressure.

 

I think a suicide bomber would be good too. Doesn't Rekkr have exploding enemies? A barrel on legs would create some interesting situations.

I was thinking of a Nightmare version of the pinky or Nightmare imp that's hard to see, hits harder and is more aggressive, either those or a Nightmare difficulty version of every monsters that spawns as mini-bosses in normal play, take for example a Nightmare Arch-Vile or Nightmare Mancubus, i was also thinking of a berserker commando that moves fast, kicks at point-blank for high damage and Does dash punches at range that deal even more damage.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Anonymous777

[Gez]

1 hour ago, xdarkmasterx said:

Ahr'Yhuukidin-Mie: Flying Archvile-Pain Elemental hybrid with Spectre's invisibility effect. Has the combined speed, abilities and HP of all three monsters.

I made a stealth pain elemental once, that shot stealth lost souls. Extremely obnoxious monster. Fortunately, I had the good sense of never releasing it; but it was pretty funny how infuriating it was in gameplay.

[tgawt]

I love questions like this... Speculatory game development is fun. The two monsters i would put in a WAD would be an enemy that throws a curveball projectile, and a demon that shoots a projectile that doesn't damage and passes through other demons.

[aletheos eberlain]

I would probably steal some monsters from D&D.

 

How about another spellcaster? We only really have the Archvile(No, I don't count throwing 'fireballs'). Maybe Illithids? Powerful melee spellattack, kind of like the Archvile's, but only up close. Telekinetic abilities, allowing it to pick up items or other monsters from a distance and use them as thrown projectiles. Or working as a support caster, maybe? When it's close to another monster, it would confer a damage or health buff to that monster, indicated by an aura graphic around the target monster.

 

How about Gryphons, or some sort of monstrous flying unit, with a chain lightning attack. Hitscan attack that bounces to nearby targets after a short delay, and can bounce from decorations. They could have riders, that become grounded melee units when the Gryphon dies, unless it's too high up?

 

A modified version of the Cyberdemon, that's properly immune to rockets. If you use rockets, he catches them mid-air, laughs at you, and tosses them randomly, sometimes back at you. Resistant to damage from bullets, but extra vulnerable to plasma.

 

Something like the giants from Golden Axe. Big, slow, melee units, with enormous range.

 

Also, to compensate for that one, something small. A swarm of rats/bats/creepy crawlies. Can move on all surfaces, basically flying units that avoid open air(follow floors/walls/ceilings) Loses cohesion and size(its numbers), as it loses hitpoints. Does more damage, moves faster and is more aggressive when it is larger (measured as a variable internally, rather than actually being multiple separate things, maybe change scale and graphics based on hitpoints alone?).

 

The Gelatinous Cube! Slow. And, I mean R E A L slow. Is all but immune to most damage, except plasma. Will A* pathfind directly to the player. No zig-zaggin' or moving backwards randomly. Only attack is a damage based on distance, rather than it's attack state. When the player, or any monster that isn't another cube, enters its body, they continuously take low but rapid damage, and their movement speed is halved.

If a cube intersects with another cube, they merge into one unit, with twice the size and hitpoints.

[JustCallMeKaito]

Tankubus, an extra large manc that has been torn to shreds, stitched back together, and sent right back into the fray with parts salvaged off of dead cyberdemons and spiderdemons. Health would be twice that of a normal manc, walking speed would be somewhat slower, hitbox size would probably be an extra 24x in each direction.

 

It'd play a very similar role to the tank commanders from Quake II, being able to fire rockets and bullets off at the player, though with
a much higher preference for sticking to the hitscanner role. Pain chance would be low, possibly less than the archvile even, but with the drawback of the Tankubus having a rather windup between the attack animation starting and when it actually starts firing.

 

Rockets would be fired slightly differently than manc fireballs, starting from the left cannon, a very brief pause, moving to the right
cannon, longer pause, and then the process repeats until six rockets have been fired.

 

The chaingun would be about on par with a spiderdemon, with the exception that it stops firing after a few seconds, again similar to the tank commanders of Quake II.

 

It'd fill the much needed role of being beefy and incredibly dangerous without the need for too much ammo to take it down. On top of that, it'd also provide a big boy variaton of the mancubus, which would be fitting since they were introduced alongside arachs, smaller versions of spiderdemons.

[ZeMystic]

14 hours ago, xdarkmasterx said:

Sniperdemon: Hitscan cyberdemon (same damage and accuracy)

 

Mimic: Replaces a random weapon pickup. Blows up like a barrel if you try to collect it.

 

Railgun Zombie: Nuff said.

 

Ahr'Yhuukidin-Mie: Flying Archvile-Pain Elemental hybrid with Spectre's invisibility effect. Has the combined speed, abilities and HP of all three monsters.

That's fuckin  c u r s e d

[Mangcubus]

16 hours ago, tgawt said:

an enemy that throws a curveball projectile

So like partial invisibility projectile demons, but they're always like that?

 

that's just

 

just

 

jesus christ

[Doom-X-Machina]

Swarms of baby Cacodemons.