Is there any difference in terms of playing between GZDoom and 200X320 Doom?

[Can't play on Nightmare]

In GZDoom, Ultra Violence felt easier to me than 200X320 Doom (original version)

 

[Can't play on Nightmare]

Thoughts?

[seed]

Resolution doesn't seem to have anything to do with your question.

 

Yes, GZDoom is not vanilla, it changes some things and also fixes all vanilla bugs while removing all limitations and adding a ton of new features, which results in some behavioral differences and also losing demo compatibility.

 

If you want vanilla, use a more conservative port like PrBoom, Eternity, Crispy Doom, or Chocolate Doom.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

shitty low resolution constricts what you can see and blurs out anything far from you. Not to mention GZDoom has filtering features which makes these things easier to tell apart.

 

However I think more of your difficulty comes from using opengl vs software renderer. 

[Redneckerz]

Are you playing using the software or the OpenGL renderer? It might be that performance with the software renderer pushes your hardware more than in GL, or vice versa.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

The most likely thing I can think of in terms of GZDoom being easier vs. vanilla is the vanilla bug where your hitscans can sometimes shoot through an enemy rather than hitting them, resulting in more missed shots even in situations that should have been a hit.  I forget how related it is to the previous but GZDoom also makes it easier to punch big monsters, if you've been berserking a lot.

[magicsofa]

GZDoom makes it easier to punch anything as far as I remember. Isn't it because distance is calculated using taxicab geometry in the original game, meaning diagonals are shorter than you would expect?

Also, I feel that the frame rate difference changes a lot. It's "easier" to control your character and do precise movements. My guess is that this is because of the fact that you can only react to what you see on the screen. If you update the screen twice as fast, the player can now react to the game or see the results of their input in between what used to be the only available frames. Plus, I suppose the input could also be limited to that frequency anyway, but I don't really know about that. Even with no input lag or cap of any kind, your effective input speed is basically the same as the FPS on your screen, and you can only surpass that by inputting commands that you know are correct ahead of time. I put the "easier" in quotes above because when I switch between choco and gzdoom, it takes a little adjustment both ways. If I go back to vanilla style after a lot of advanced port playing, the movement feels heavier and it's like doomguy can get away from me more, sliding all around. But going the other way, the movement feels faster and doomguy seems to stop short when I wasn't expecting it.

And finally, GZDoom nerfs the screen effects for when you get hurt a lot or pick up a bunch of items, making it easier to see in those situations :P

[P41R47]

8 minutes ago, magicsofa said:

GZDoom makes it easier to punch anything as far as I remember. Isn't it because distance is calculated using taxicab geometry in the original game, meaning diagonals are shorter than you would expect?

Also, I feel that the frame rate difference changes a lot. It's "easier" to control your character and do precise movements. My guess is that this is because of the fact that you can only react to what you see on the screen. If you update the screen twice as fast, the player can now react to the game or see the results of their input in between what used to be the only available frames. Plus, I suppose the input could also be limited to that frequency anyway, but I don't really know about that. Even with no input lag or cap of any kind, your effective input speed is basically the same as the FPS on your screen, and you can only surpass that by inputting commands that you know are correct ahead of time. I put the "easier" in quotes above because when I switch between choco and gzdoom, it takes a little adjustment both ways. If I go back to vanilla style after a lot of advanced port playing, the movement feels heavier and it's like doomguy can get away from me more, sliding all around. But going the other way, the movement feels faster and doomguy seems to stop short when I wasn't expecting it.

And finally, GZDoom nerfs the screen effects for when you get hurt a lot or pick up a bunch of items, making it easier to see in those situations :P

From my experience, what is stated above is the only difference.

The change between ports is somewhat annoying, but it last just a few minutes.

You, @Can't play on Nightmare, can try changing GZDoom screen options to 640x480, the nearest GZDoom can go to original resolution without using software mode, and try for yourself what differences you feel.

Aside from that, resolution: width & lenght of the image displayed on screen, doesn't affect gameplay at all.

You can also try playing without freelook and with autoaim. This way you will experience Doom in GZDoom as it, somewhat, was back in 1993.

Most of the mapsets you will found out there are created with this in mind.

[esselfortium]

GZDoom also changes some gameplay behavior, like making the invisibility sphere act completely differently than it's supposed to, or making decoration sprites block projectiles by default. The latter especially has resulted in a lot of "dumb mapper shouldn't have put this lamp here to let me totally cheese this cyberdemon fight" comments from players who don't know any better.

[Can't play on Nightmare]

2 hours ago, seed said:

Resolution doesn't seem to have anything to do with your question.

 

Yes, GZDoom is not vanilla, it changes some things and also fixes all vanilla bugs while removing all limitations and adding a ton of new features, which results in some behavioral differences and also losing demo compatibility.

 

If you want vanilla, use a more conservative port like PrBoom, Eternity, Crispy Doom, or Chocolate Doom.

 

I had an easy play using just a pistol on UV difficulty. Why?

[Cruduxy Pegg]

40 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

GZDoom also changes some gameplay behavior, like making the invisibility sphere act completely differently than it's supposed to, or making decoration sprites block projectiles by default. The latter especially has resulted in a lot of "dumb mapper shouldn't have put this lamp here to let me totally cheese this cyberdemon fight" comments from players who don't know any better.

 

 

"Haha why did this stupid mapper place the cyberdemon behind a tree? Did he ever play his own map?"

 

[Can't play on Nightmare]

I am playing on UV difficulty with pistol.

 

Something is wrong with GZDoom. 

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Change resolution to 320x200 in GZDoom. Disable texture filtering and set fps cap to 35. Let's see if it remains much easier. [And slam your mouse with a hammer a couple of times to simulate the shitty mouse support from original]

[Can't play on Nightmare]

10 minutes ago, Pegg said:

Change resolution to 320x200 in GZDoom. Disable texture filtering and set fps cap to 35. Let's see if it remains much easier. [And slam your mouse with a hammer a couple of times to simulate the shitty mouse support from original]

 

What are you talking about?

 

UV feels easier on GZDoom than Original Doom 2.

 

I am beating levels with pistol on UV.

There seems to be change against how monsters react or something.

 

It didnt seem to me that the only difference was resolution.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Can't play on Nightmare

[Cruduxy Pegg]

You need to get rid of all the qualities of life that come with GZdoom before choking it down to monsters being weaker. FYI the RNG is also different so you will be doing\taking different damage between the two. And RNG controls a LOT of things in doom, even the monster AI. 

[Can't play on Nightmare]

12 minutes ago, Pegg said:

You need to get rid of all the qualities of life that come with GZdoom before choking it down to monsters being weaker. FYI the RNG is also different so you will be doing\taking different damage between the two. And RNG controls a LOT of things in doom, even the monster AI. 

 

Man why can't you understand what I am saying?

 

I am talking about how UV in Doom 2 (old version) feels harder.

 

You dont seem to get what I am saying and I have no idea why it is that hard for you to get what I am saying.

 

I played both versions on modern PC so PC has nothing to do. Clear?

 

I never use mouse, by the way.  Why would I? It is Doom.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Can't play on Nightmare

[Guest Unregistered account]

14 minutes ago, Pegg said:

[And slam your mouse with a hammer a couple of times to simulate the shitty mouse support from original]

Mouse control is fine to me as long as you disable moving back/forward based on mouse movement. Also everything else you recommend is really just small touches that wouldn't impact the gameplay in any noticeable way.

[fraggle]

11 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

Man why can't you understand what I am saying?

Most of your comments in this thread seem to be describing your personal subjective experience of playing in GZDoom. We don't know why it subjectively feels easier to you but there are several potential reasons why you might be feeling that way. Pegg and others have listed some of them and he's given you some suggestions for things you might try in order to figure out what's making it feel easier to you. If you do, you might find out that it's one particular setting or other that's giving the game that feel.

 

Either way, it's probably not a bug in GZDoom, which is what you seem to be assuming. 

 

11 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

I never use mouse, by the way.  Why would I? It is Doom.

Because Doom was always intended to be played with the mouse.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

34 minutes ago, Kapanyo said:

Mouse control is fine to me as long as you disable moving back/forward based on mouse movement. Also everything else you recommend is really just small touches that wouldn't impact the gameplay in any noticeable way.

 

Yeah I agree. None of them make any kind of big difference in the Iwad. Beside perhaps mancubi projectiles piercing through short walls but I doubt this is in Doom 2. 

 

35 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

Man why can't you understand what I am saying?

 

 

No you are the one who isn't understanding. I already wrote what I have to say, not going to repeat it. 

[Can't play on Nightmare]

16 minutes ago, Pegg said:

 

Yeah I agree. None of them make any kind of big difference in the Iwad. Beside perhaps mancubi projectiles piercing through short walls but I doubt this is in Doom 2. 

 

 

No you are the one who isn't understanding. I already wrote what I have to say, not going to repeat it. 

So you are saying that there is no difference in how enemies react that would effect difficulty? Did I understand you correctly?

[Can't play on Nightmare]

33 minutes ago, fraggle said:

Most of your comments in this thread seem to be describing your personal subjective experience of playing in GZDoom. We don't know why it subjectively feels easier to you but there are several potential reasons why you might be feeling that way. Pegg and others have listed some of them and he's given you some suggestions for things you might try in order to figure out what's making it feel easier to you. If you do, you might find out that it's one particular setting or other that's giving the game that feel.

 

Either way, it's probably not a bug in GZDoom, which is what you seem to be assuming. 

 

Because Doom was always intended to be played with the mouse.

 

I never played Doom with mouse.

Ammos automatically go to them enemies when they are above or below me. So no need for mouse.

 

 

Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Heretic , Hexen, Duke Nukem 3D

 

You need no mouse.

 

They are not like Doom 3.

 

I am bad in Doom 3 becauae I am not the mouse using type in fps games.

[Bauul]

Just now, Can't play on Nightmare said:

So you are saying that there is no difference in how enemies react that would effect difficulty?

 

That is correct.  There is absolutely no tangible difference in how enemies "react" in GZDoom compared to Doom2.exe.  There are some gameplay differences that are on by default (such as infinite height being off, decorations not blocking shots, punching big enemies being easier, and the invis powerup acting differently) but none of these relate to enemy AI.

 

You'll need to give us a bit more explanation around exactly what you think is different for us to comment further.  Simply saying "they react differently" doesn't give us much to go on.

[Can't play on Nightmare]

3 minutes ago, Bauul said:

 

That is correct.  There is absolutely no tangible difference in how enemies "react" in GZDoom compared to Doom2.exe.  There are some gameplay differences that are on by default (such as infinite height being off, decorations not blocking shots, punching big enemies being easier, and the invis powerup acting differently) but none of these relate to enemy AI.

 

You'll need to give us a bit more explanation around exactly what you think is different for us to comment further.  Simply saying "they react differently" doesn't give us much to go on.

Okay. It just felt different to me. Thats it.

 

I am playing on UV faster than I could. And even with pistol, I can play on UV, which is strange. It is really strange that I can play with pistol on UV.

[fraggle]

11 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

I never played Doom with mouse.

Ammos automatically go to them enemies when they are above or below me. So no need for mouse.

Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Heretic , Hexen, Duke Nukem 3D

 

You need no mouse.

You don't "need" a mouse, no, but it's a better tool because it allows faster turning and it's more precise. And there's nothing wrong or inauthentic about playing the game this way because the designers of the game always intended for people to be able to play using the mouse.

[Redneckerz]

13 minutes ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

Okay. It just felt different to me. Thats it.

 

I am playing on UV faster than I could. And even with pistol, I can play on UV, which is strange. It is really strange that I can play with pistol on UV.

I know what you are trying to say here, but you can always pistol start on UV. Its just that in regular progressive play (Where you go through levels) that this is not instantly applicable. See here for the various situations where a pistol start can occur.

[Graf Zahl]

All relevant values are exactly the same. Aside from the aforementioned hitscan fixes - which can be disabled for closer to vanilla behavior - , nothing else should really have much of an impact on difficulty. It's probably just that with modern controls it is a lot easier to aim. Higher resolutions and being able to see monsters further away also can make certain encounters easier to manage.

 

[Can't play on Nightmare]

14 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

All relevant values are exactly the same. Aside from the aforementioned hitscan fixes - which can be disabled for closer to vanilla behavior - , nothing else should really have much of an impact on difficulty. It's probably just that with modern controls it is a lot easier to aim. Higher resolutions and being able to see monsters further away also can make certain encounters easier to manage.

 

 

I played both on modern pc. That is the problem. Interesting.

[P41R47]

18 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

All relevant values are exactly the same. Aside from the aforementioned hitscan fixes - which can be disabled for closer to vanilla behavior - , nothing else should really have much of an impact on difficulty. It's probably just that with modern controls it is a lot easier to aim. Higher resolutions and being able to see monsters further away also can make certain encounters easier to manage.

 

Graf! Graf!

We already explained it, somehow, but, well...

Please, present yourself , kinda like "Hi, Graf Zahl, reporting, one of the developers of GZDoom. The above stated its correct" and clear this up.

 

[Can't play on Nightmare]

51 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

I know what you are trying to say here, but you can always pistol start on UV. Its just that in regular progressive play (Where you go through levels) that this is not instantly applicable. See here for the various situations where a pistol start can occur.

 

I played with pistol until level 5. Anyway. Interesting. I started using other weapons as of the beginning of level 5 (small part of level 3 needed shotgun then turned back to pistol again) :D

 

I never felt this easy on UV before. Strange as one might say.

 

 

Yeah..

 

Maybe should try Nightmare after.

 

Maybe I will have to get rid of my nickname if same happens with Nightmare.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Can't play on Nightmare

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 hour ago, Can't play on Nightmare said:

 

I never played Doom with mouse.

That explains your username. Playing without a mouse is plain and simple not as good as playing with one. It does not matter that doom aims up and down automatically, not using a mouse still means your aim is less accurate, you're also not "on target" as quickly as you could be, and your movement is less accurate than it otherwise would be. Several source ports in the past have had features built in which try to bring "keyboarders" closer to "mousers", like for example "flip 180°" (which GZDoom has, for that matter), but those are still crutches instead of a real leg.

 

I'm not telling you this in an attempt to make it seem like you're playing wrong, I actually don't care how you play. But I am saying that keyboard only is objectively inferior to using keyboard and mouse. Also, tangentially related: Some modern maps made for (G)ZDoom actually require using a mouse to manually aim up or down in order to reach certain shootswitches, meaning that you might run into "problems" that were not present in the original classic Doom maps since those were built such that free-aim is not required at all.

 

TL;DR: I don't care how you play, but you're simply not doing your self a favour by sticking to keyboard only.