Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Hisymak

Duke Nukem 3D or Quake?

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

Even if we don't go to G/ZDoom territory, there are plenty of greats wads I can think of like:

Thanks! I just wanted to know seed's opinion on this in the context of comparing community output for Doom and Duke 3D. Both these games are rather similar on the surface but to me at least, there are many fundamental differences in both design and gameplay. I've played quite a few user maps and mappacks for both (yet still certainly but a fraction of the entirety of such works created for either game), and while there is a rather wide range of styles and design approaches for both titles, I can hardly say that Doom user content is definitely superior to Duke 3D's, or vice versa for that matter. The games are too different to me in the way they play and work.

 

7 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

There is also REKKR.

I only meant commercial projects from back in the day. When REKKR gets a commercial release it'll be a stand-alone game (I guess), like Ion Fury.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

Thanks! I just wanted to know seed's opinion

 

Yeah, it was slightly hasty of me to answer what you asked from seed (my bad :S).

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, ReaperAA said:

 

Yeah, it was slightly hasty of me to answer what you asked from seed (my bad :S).

No worries!

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

 

Which is exactly what I'm doing, I never said otherwise.

 

I just don't like people trying to forcefully change my stance on a matter when I've already made what I think about the topic at hand exceptionally clear - I consider/find Duke mods inferior to Doom's. Please stop insisting now. And yes, I've already checked out the mods you're suggesting, a while ago, actually.

 

1 hour ago, MrFlibble said:

BTW, I forgot to ask, which ones would you point out as the best of the best Doom WADs/mods?

 

I think you already know the answer, don't you now?

 

But to add a few more to Reaper's list above... :

 

Golden Souls 1 & 2.

Castlevania: Simon's Destiny (not actually a Doom mod/WAD since it technically requires no IWAD to run, but you get the idea).

UAC Ultra.

Pirate Doom.

Avactor.

Batman Doom.

Combat Shock duology.

Deus Vult II.

Sunder.

Sunlust.

Shadows from the Nightmare Realm.

Dead.air & dead.wire.

Disparate Realities.

Refracted Reality.

Doomed Space Wars.

Epic 2.

Eternal Doom.

Flotsam.

Hanging Gardens.

Mapwich.

Stardate 20x6 & 20x7 (though I found the latter unenjoyable, personally).

magnolia.wad.

Mothership.

Order of the Odonata.

Running Late 2.

Struggle.

THT: Threnody.

Umbra of Fate.

Verdant Citadel.

Winter's Fury.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, seed said:

I think you already know the answer, don't you now?

How would I?

 

I only played a few out of your list, some sound interesting judging by the titles.

 

I have to concede to one thing. It seems to me that Doom mappers and modders are generally more inclined to experiment and try out new design approaches, while the Duke 3D community appears more conservative on the whole. Maybe this is because a) Doom has a more compact base of core elements to work with and b) some source ports allow for a great degree of flexibility in the way you can modify various gameplay elements without having to do some hardcoded hacking or patching the engine.

 

The observation above of course does not apply to the folks behind Alien ArmageddonWGRealms 2 or AMC TC. Or Mr The Killer for that matter.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, MrFlibble said:

Maybe this is because a) Doom has a more compact base of core elements to work with and b) some source ports allow for a great degree of flexibility in the way you can modify various gameplay elements without having to do some hardcoded hacking or patching the engine.

 

This is correct, actually.

 

Doom and its engine are a lot more flexible than Build and especially Duke's codebase, which is why it could be expanded like crazy in comparison. Duke and Build suffer from poor programming and bad design decisions, which is what has prevented them from going above and beyond like Doom did. Their modding tools, notably the map editor, is also vastly inferior to UDB, for instance, and this is not biased talk either.

Share this post


Link to post

I just quickly watched the gameplay of Order of the Odonata, Winter's Fury, Umbra of Fate, Verdant Citadel, Shadows of the Nightmare Realm and the Hanging Gardens, and I think I'm getting your point.

 

I'm usually interested in vanilla compatible stuff due to the overall nostalgic mood, so I missed a lot of these that you named in the list above but yeah, those are some very cool, and very advanced looking projects of a kind that you won't find in the Duke 3D community.

Share this post


Link to post

Quake all the way.

 

Duke was a GREAT game but, in hindsight, that's it for me. Nonetheless I fondly remember seeing the real world that Duke was able to deliver and how we were glued to the little 15" screen - "Death Row" will never be forgotten. Some of the interactivity felt like a quantum leap to me.

 

If I had to make a choice based on first impression(QTest + Pentium Pro - just wow), technicality, immersion, mapping and especially multiplayer it would be Quake. It's just surreal and classy at the same time.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Duke is the Star child, I rather enjoy some of the community content however most big name mods and releases are total feature creeps that add some strange, often useless shit or unnecessary shit 

 

***OPINION TIME BAYBEE***

Spoiler

and also a lotta Duke mods go the extra bit further in the sexuality department, like it would be great to play a Duke mod like Alien Armageddon without seeing topless women blown to fucking pieces by aliens and the ability to also kill said naked women AND civilians/allies as "the great hero" Duke Nukem with little to no punishment feels wrong, at least the other games in the series penalised you for it (especially Time to Kill, you press the action button with a weapon out and you'll know about it as it summons 4 pig cops on you) where things like Alien Armageddon has Duke "nobody steals our chicks and lives" Nukem say "oopsie doopsy lemme work on my aim" upon fucking obliterating someone innocent (ESPECIALLY said chicks that "nobody messes with").

 

Like, I'm not a prude I love TnA, but it's always so uncomfortable and weird having it in first person shooters in the middle of a gunfight, that and I'd like to play a game where I don't feel like I had to play it in an Incognito tab, Alien Armageddon is great it's bloated with pixelated porn AND the often gruesome death of said porn.

 

Share this post


Link to post

I kinda like both, but on one hand, Duke has much more colors, and on the other, I hate Protozoid Slimers.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Vic Vos said:

I kinda like both, but on one hand, Duke has much more colors, and on the other, I hate Protozoid Slimers.

Yeah but Quake also has Spawns (or "Tarbaby"???), I'd take a Protozoid over a Spawn any day.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, mrthejoshmon said:

Yeah but Quake also has Spawns (or "Tarbaby"???), I'd take a Protozoid over a Spawn any day. 

At least it's not molesting your screen!

Share this post


Link to post

I have bad opinions and therefore prefer Quake. To me, its more nostalgic since I grew up playing it, and I prefer the atmosphere, music, and lack of vocal protagonist. I don't really care for the bosses in either game, though.

Share this post


Link to post

You might be asking me about if i prefer Duke Nukem or Quake, so I have a better answer.

 

wolfenstein 3d.

Share this post


Link to post

I've played through Quake 1 quite a few times in its entirety. All four of its episodes maintain consistent quality and it really doesn't feel like it takes any dips. Plus the whole thing of needing to play all four of them before facing the final boss is a nice touch.

 

Duke Nukem 3D: only the first episode is fun. The others are just... mostly bad.

 

I'll say Quake is better.

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, I hate Protozoid Slimers too, I cope with them alright these days but they had me freaking out in a big way when I first encountered them, even to the point of instinctively reacting by firing RPG shots (with predictable results).  I can see how those squirming Spawn/Tarbaby monsters in Quake could be similarly unsettling for some people, but they never bothered me even one-tenth as much. 

Share this post


Link to post

BTW, speaking of Quake, maybe someone can explain something to me.

 

A while ago I was avidly collecting all information I could find on free/FOSS games and found CodeRED: Battle for Earth and CodeRED: The Martian Chronicles, which are single-player campaigns in the same setting as Alien Arena (IIRC the latter actually being a multiplayer arena spin-off of CodeRED). Anyhoo, I did play both these single-player titles, as well as several early builds of Alien Arena (my machine back then would not handle more recent editions), and even "accidentally" completed the entire Martian Chronicles as I was making screenshots from MobyGames.

 

I have to say I actually had moderately high expectations for these titles, based on the apparent long-lasting popularity of Alien Arena, but much to my surprise both Battle for Earth and The Martian Chronicles featured rather dull, basic level design that hardly did justice to the engine the games are running on. TMC is literally made almost entirely of straight hallways and corridors with 90-degree turns (complete with an intro ride that was apparently inspired by the opening of Half-Life but trapped in a rectangular cage traversing, you guessed it, straight corridors with 90-degree turns). This is even more puzzling when you consider that even the alpha builds of Alien Arena that I tried out had way more inspired level design with areas that actually resembled places, or hinted at purposeful arrangement of elements and not just walking from one room to the next.

 

Some time later I discovered Eternal War: Shadows of Light which runs on the modified Quake engine and is actually not bad, but the level design had the same tendencies of straight corridors, rectangular rooms and 90-degree turns sometimes partially obscured by decorations but almost always contributing to dull, uneventful gameplay. This is especially regrettable considering that the monster roster in Eternal War could easily make it into a spiritual successor to Heretic with a premise that is actually rather original.

 

I understand that both cases probably simply boil down to a lack of level designing skill. But I really wish there were projects like the above with better execution. Did all talent simply go into other directions? (e.g. there's no lack of FOSS arena shooters similar to Quake III Arena) Or is Quake good enough on its own not to be distracted by attempts to make a standalone game? I mean, there's a good selection of Doom stand-alone TCs/games, from Harmony to Rise of the Wool Ball to Nocturne in Yellow, whereas the Quake/2 engine legacy offers rather disappointing examples like the ones above. Or am I simply not familar enough with the Quake modding scene?

Share this post


Link to post

Quake wins in all aspects. Better game, better tech, better sound, better level design, better monster design, better weapons, better atmosphere, better concept. The only thing that Duke has over Quake is killing pig cops, tipping strippers, taking a piss instead of wading through piss, actual boss fights, chairs inside buildings (poor Ranger can't even take a break on his murder quest) and the horribly aged "I AIN'T AFRAID OF NO QUAKE!" joke.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, FractalBeast said:

The only thing that Duke has over Quake is killing pig cops

 

You DO know that in some countries, the police are called pigs, right? Have you been in trouble with the police, FractalBeast...? Do you have a grudge against them?

 

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, FractalBeast said:

Quake wins in all aspects. Better game, better tech, better sound, better level design, better monster design, better weapons, better atmosphere, better concept. The only thing that Duke has over Quake is killing pig cops, tipping strippers, taking a piss instead of wading through piss, actual boss fights, chairs inside buildings (poor Ranger can't even take a break on his murder quest) and the horribly aged "I AIN'T AFRAID OF NO QUAKE!" joke.

Quake has better weapons, seriously?

 

Quake Weapons look like Toys.

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, FractalBeast said:

better level design, better weapons, better atmosphere

 

These 3 things are arguable. I personally found Duke3D better at these 3 areas. Level design in particular. Duke's levels not only seem to have better flow but they are also more memorable due to having unique themes instead of just being medieval castles and dungeons.

 

The weapons in Duke are also more creative than those in Quake. Quake probably has the most "typical" weapons in any FPS game ever whereas Duke at least tried to be creative with the weaponry.

 

Atmosphere? I personally enjoy the setting of Duke more than the brown brown and brown aesthetics of vanilla Quake maps.

Share this post


Link to post

Duke Nukem is too gimmicky with its weapons.

 

And to be honest, who in their right mind would want to play such a mysogynistic, sexist character as Nukem, anyway? His most recent outing, Forever, was proof that there's no place in this modern world for his style of... anything. And the first two Nukem games were really nothing special, neither, being crappy platform games. Looks like 3D was his only real hit. I just don't get the love for that guy.

 

Quake, however, brought true 3D to FPS, full modding, pure deathmatch, CTF, TF, and begat Half-Life and eventually all other FPS that we know and love today. All Nukem had was Build. Build... pffft. Build isn't worthy enough to lick id Tech 1's boots.

 

Share this post


Link to post

I liked Duke Nukem II, FWIW. Duke Nukem 3D was cheesy and gimmicky, indeed, but still made a great game. Not a revolutionary engine, not groundbreaking technology, not a basis for great mods, just a fun game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

And to be honest, who in their right mind would want to play such a mysogynistic, sexist character as Nukem, anyway? His most recent outing, Forever, was proof that there's no place in this modern world for his style of... anything.

 

Except that DNF's Duke is not a great representation of what Duke was in Duke3D. The Duke in Duke3D is nowhere near the misogynistic character that he is in DNF. DNF's character is known as "Douche Nukem" for a reason. In Duke3D, he actually cares about humanity and even in-game you are actually punished for killing women as enemies are spawn if you do so.

 

I feel that Duke's character could still work, but he would definitely need major updating (and not the updating that DNF did).

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/31/2020 at 4:32 AM, chungy said:

Duke Nukem 3D: only the first episode is fun. The others are just... mostly bad.

I didn't think the third episode was bad, and at least few of the maps from the fourth episode were good.

Edited by Avoozl

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×