Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Hisymak

Duke Nukem 3D or Quake?

Recommended Posts

Duke Nukem Forever's situation is like Daikatana. Engine swaps because of worries that critics would call the graphics outdated. Years of development with no good progress, and the final game turned out bad as a result. Here's an advise for devs. Stick to one engine. Ignore video game critics, don't worry about them. Do not swap engines, just stick to what you have. Do what you do best.

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

Its Unreal Warfare (The short lived intermediate engine between UE1/UE2)

 

Wasn't "Unreal Warfare" the name used for the alpha/prototype version of Gears of War. And AFAIK, even the earliest builds of Unreal Warfare from 2002 used UE 2.0 and soon, the development shifted to UE3 in 2004.

 

The intermediate engine between UE1 and UE2 that you are probably referring to was shown in 2000 (about 2 years before the first Unreal Warfare demo)

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

Here's an advise for devs. Stick to one engine.

 

Or rather, do not constantly change them, that's just one of the ways it ended up in development hell. They constantly chased the new tech, and it was obvious they could not keep up with the times, you can't constantly pursue new tech and expect to still have the edge, which is what Broussard actually wanted. Those selling the licenses have it, not the other way around.

 

Daikatana's situation was different insofar as it had a troubled development and inexperienced developers, but it had a clear vision. DNF had no vision to boost it, and ended up copying other games but executed their ideas way worse than they did.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

 

Wasn't "Unreal Warfare" the name used for the alpha/prototype version of Gears of War. And AFAIK, even the earliest builds of Unreal Warfare from 2002 used UE 2.0 and soon, the development shifted to UE3 in 2004.

 

The intermediate engine between UE1 and UE2 that you are probably referring to was shown in 2000 (about 2 years before the first Unreal Warfare demo)

As far as i understand, that's the name of the intermediate engine.

 

Unreal Warfare was also indeed thename of GoW.

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, Foebane72 said:

I didn't know about George Broussard's role in Duke Nukem Forever. He sounds as egotistical as John Romero was with Daikatana.

 

Based on an Interview with Lee Jackson about Rise of the Triad's Development. George Broussard pretty much hated all the silly aspects of the game (fish Polka song is one example)

 

Seems like he has zero eye for creativity when it came to game design and just played by the book (i.e. Generic)

 

Atleast John Romero has proven himself as a competent game designer.

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Based on an Interview with Lee Jackson about Rise of the Triad's Development. George Broussard pretty much hated all the silly aspects of the game (fish Polka song is one example)

 

Seems like he has zero eye for creativity when it came to game design and just played by the book (i.e. Generic)

 

Atleast John Romero has proven himself as a competent game designer.

 

Romero's main claim to fame was Doom. Broussard's was DN3D. Both were highly successful. It's just I've never heard of the latter's name before now.

 

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

Broussard's was DN3D.

 

He only really did ONE level in DN3D so, not much of a contribution there Game Design wise.

 

Romero also worked on Keen and Wolf3d, not just Doom.

Share this post


Link to post

I definitely prefer Quake over Duke3D, mostly because Quake is that much more straight-forward. In Duke's defense, the game does have more variety as far as general gameplay goes, but I feel that it's occasionally too varied for its own good.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

He only really did ONE level in DN3D so, not much of a contribution there Game Design wise.

 

Romero also worked on Keen and Wolf3d, not just Doom.

 

One level? Oh.

 

Share this post


Link to post

What one of the editors at PC Zone UK had to say in October 1996 about Duke 3D vs Quake:
 

Quote

''I'm going to get mailed dog shit for this but what the hell. Quake: the most important game ever? I don't think so. Technically flawless Doom clone? Hmmm, that seems more like it.

Quake is cool, Quake is spooky and atmospheric and brilliantly realised and all that, but what Quake isn't is original. Originallity is what made DOOM kick the gameplaying world in its collective soft bits and take notice. Quake favors multi-player action, fine if you have access to a network or can afford to play it over the net, tough titty otherwise.

Better than Duke Nukem? Who gives a shit? Quake is no more playable, it just looks a whole lot better and as anyone will tell you, looks aren't everything. (At least that's what my more sympathetic friends tell me.) I'm willing to wager that many people have played the shareware version and are saying to themselves: ''Okay, it looks great, but what is all the fuss about?''

 

Share this post


Link to post

i wonder if he ever found out how you can pretty much clip through every huggable corner and 1pixel wide gap in Duke 3d :P

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

i wonder if he ever found out how you can pretty much clip through every huggable corner and 1pixel wide gap in Duke 3d :P

Like the stuff here?

Share this post


Link to post

A problem with Quake 1 is that the grunts don't show up after the first two levels. Instead there's a ton of Ogres.

 

Quake 1 is good. I forgot that you can play the game with mods, so if you don't like the maps or weapons, you can change them.

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

A problem with Quake 1 is that the grunts don't show up after the first two levels. Instead there's a ton of Ogres.

 

Quake 1 is good. I forgot that you can play the game with mods, so if you don't like the maps or weapons, you can change them.

There ware some good mission packs and total conversions. Try the Malice: 23rd Century TC. You can download it from My Abandonware.

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

A problem with Quake 1 is that the grunts don't show up after the first two levels. Instead there's a ton of Ogres.

Yeah, I always missed the low-tier monsters in later levels. They are filled only with orges, knights and fiends.

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/27/2020 at 8:47 AM, SuperchargedEuthanasiaDiv said:

They need to hire writers that are in touch with modern pop culture and have a good degree of self-awareness. I swear, if the same people were to "write" Duke today, we'd no doubt see something along the lines "dat boi", any spin on this stupid fucking doge meme or worse, "haha <%thing> go <%noise>".

3DR really should've hired Yahtzee when they had the chance.

My name's Ducc Nuccem, and I've come to repeat catchphrases that already were annoying when you saw them three years ago on Tumblr!

 

On 6/28/2020 at 3:16 AM, jazzmaster9 said:

Based on an Interview with Lee Jackson about Rise of the Triad's Development. George Broussard pretty much hated all the silly aspects of the game (fish Polka song is one example)

 

Seems like he has zero eye for creativity when it came to game design and just played by the book (i.e. Generic)

 

Atleast John Romero has proven himself as a competent game designer.

The silly parts were the only parts of ROTT that were even remotely good. Who would care about "Blake Stone, but you shoot at pictures of nerds in military surplus jackets" if not for the weird Latin jazz music, drunk missiles, and severed arms giving you the finger?

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

By the way, there's a bug with Dissolution of Eternity where you can't go to the hard difficulty. The path pushes you around.

 

That's an earthvHiekUG.pnguake, try jumping to the exit so it doesn't throw you off as much.

 

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

Umm...

 

Am I the only one that has that issue?

It's not a bug, but a rather annoying environmental hazard that tosses you in random directions when you're standing on the ground. Get ready to see more of it as you progress through the game.

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/28/2020 at 12:31 AM, seed said:

They constantly chased the new tech, and it was obvious they could not keep up with the times, you can't constantly pursue new tech and expect to still have the edge, which is what Broussard actually wanted. 

 

The really hilarious part is that DNF looked modern, but it played like a game from 2006 with the two-weapon limit and totally-not-inspired-by-HL2-and-Prey physics puzzles. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

The really hilarious part is that DNF looked modern, but it played like a game from 2006 with the two-weapon limit and totally-not-inspired-by-HL2-and-Prey physics puzzles. 

 

And also executed them horribly.

 

"Valve puzzles" as they were referred to in DNF are fun in the games it took inspiration from, but they were executed horrendously in this game. That's part of what I meant when I said it took the best parts from the games it took inspiration from and turned them into utter shit.

 

I would argue it also looked dated. It had some nice effects and the models, textures weren't too bad, but the overall feel to everything was something that belonged in 2006 or so. It hold no candle to the good-looking UE3 games of the early 2010s, and even before that - UT3, which came out back in 2007 looked much better than it all around, for reference. But all good UE3 games did honestly.

Edited by seed

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/28/2020 at 7:50 PM, ReaperAA said:

 

^This pretty much. When it comes to base game, Duke3D wins for me. However, when it comes to mappacks and addons, Quake wins (No Duke mod rivals Arcane Dimensions).

 

Most of Quake's innovations were technological whereas Duke3D innovations were stuff like interactivity, unrivalled level design, protagonist with voice lines etc. Duke's features (especially the level design) make its vanilla campaign much more memorable than Quake's campaign with brown-ish castles and dungeons.

 

However, Duke's engine (the BUILD engine) is a janky mess and Quake's more advanced and robust engine has a clear advantage here. Quake's bestiary is also better than that of Duke. These are some of the many reasons why Quake's modding scene is overall superior to that of Duke.

 

this. who doesn't wish that quake had the complexity of arcane dimensions when it came out already. but good luck running that with 1996 systems.

 

speaking of art, i prefer quake's dark, gritty style over duke's which is straight out of comics, but then, why not have both.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

What do you mean by a shooter from 2006?

 

Simply putting it in a time frame where it would belong. It eventually came out in 2011 but it was dated from all points of view. Looked and played like a mediocre game from the mid-2000s.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, seed said:

 

Simply putting it in a time frame where it would belong. It eventually came out in 2011 but it was dated from all points of view. Looked and played like a mediocre game from the mid-2000s.

Duke Nukem Forever looks like it plays more like a modern shooter.

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

What do you mean by a shooter from 2006?

 

- Long intro where you're introduced to the world by walking around

- Two-weapon limit

- Regenerating health

- Physics puzzles

- Unreal Engine 3

 

All of these things are emblematic of mid-2000s shooters like Half Life 2, Call of Duty or Halo. The original Duke 3D was a pioneer compared to Doom, DNF was every other budget shooter you played in high school starring Duke Nukem. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

- Long intro where you're introduced to the world by walking around

- Two-weapon limit

- Regenerating health

- Physics puzzles

- Unreal Engine 3

 

All of these things are emblematic of mid-2000s shooters like Half Life 2, Call of Duty or Halo. The original Duke 3D was a pioneer compared to Doom, DNF was every other budget shooter you played in high school starring Duke Nukem. 

Ooh, ok. Yeah the game plays like that. It's not an old-school shooter like Duke 3D or Serious Sam.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×