Why Aren't There More Shooters Like Doom 4 And Eternal?

[A Nobody]

You'd think that with the success of Doom 4 and Eternal, devs would make their first person shooters like them. Sadly that's not the case, as we keep getting military shooters. The exception would be indie devs, who DO make old-school shooters today.

[scalliano]

Absolute creative stagnation in the AAA space. Shareholders see innovation as risk, and to be fair, I'd be surprised if there was any substantial overlap between DOOM and CoD/BF players.

[GarrettChan]

It's a long development cycle for a game, and this is risky. One year later, you have no idea what the world will look like.

[seed]

General stagnation in the triple-A industry, and because retro shooters (and games) in general are still a niche, they don't sell as well as the insipid money grabs others keep pumping out and people buy.

 

And I'm glad for it, makes these games stand apart from the creatively bankrupt, the last thing we need is them becoming mainstream, because when that happens, you can expect another significant downgrade in quality and a watered down, soulless experience.

[Doom_Dude]

I'd have to become an Indie Dev to make the shooter I want. heh. It wouldn't have monkey bars and giant question marks and checkpoints that's for sure.

 

I dunno where everything went wrong with shooters. The only newer ones I like are more on the stealth side like Prey 2017. I like having different ways to approach an area and really like exploring and finding safe codes and hacking into offices and stuff. You have different options but it's not a convoluted jumble.

 

I don't like military shooters much, tho I did like Soldier of Fortune and SoF II. Call of Dooty is boring. I hate any game that keeps telling me where to go like in the Wolfenstein New Order and Call of Jurawhatever Bound in Boredom.

 

I really don't care for most games that have a modern setting. I find that boring.

 

No wonder I play so many RPG's...

[DRM-MAN]

You can thank half-life for the "upgrade" in shooters, personally i don't care about the gameplay or graphics as long as the game is fun. That being said i haven't had any fun with fps games since 2009, i really just play them out of habit at this point, even games that give me nostalgia.

[arnaldocsf]

Well, the "industry" has this name 'cause, well, it's an industry.

They go where the money goes.

 

Idk about Doom Eternal, but, I see a lot of Fornites and whateverclones this past years, for me, this is just sad. I mean, I understand, the profit and all, but we have so many games, but so little real innovation. And no, new skins are not real innovations :P

[Morpheus666]

I've abandoned all but the faithful fps companies, ID software are about the only company i really follow up on religiously since they are always making creative stuff, I have moved away from the AAA companies because they have became machines in a money printing press, I focus more on Indie games more then anything since there is some actual decent quality / original and creative games coming out of the devs then what most AAA companies could spend more time producing it and it would be worst then the original devs.

[AtimZarr1]

6 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

You'd think that with the success of Doom 4 and Eternal

 

Depends on the definition of success for these other studios. For example, how much do Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal make in a year? Most studios also tend to follow safe and provably successful trends, i.e. open-world games. This also explains why there is only one dominant "Sims"-style franchise, that gameplay is more of a successful niche than a market trend.

 

7 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

as we keep getting military shooters

 

It's an incredibly popular setting that has proven success time and time again. If people keep buying games with these settings (and these games outperform similar games in the genre outside of that setting, i.e. Titanfall 2), then studios will simply fulfill that demand and interest.

 

7 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

The exception would be indie devs

 

It's a lot safer for indie devs to pursue these types of games as they usually don't have massive costs associated with making AAA quality games. Reduced risks and pressures mean they are more able to make more of what they want (most of the time).

[seablock]

how many "military shooters" have been released since Eternal came out? you make it sound like we're still in 2010 where CoD reigns supreme. and frankly 2016 and Eternal aren't that great anyways. they're not awful, but still.. we need more FPSes like the original dooms

Edited June 9, 2020 by daisuki milk

[Avoozl]

The new dooms are too arena based for my liking.

[Biodegradable]

This is why I look to the Indie scene because there's been a veritable renaissance of retro throwback FPS games like Dusk, Ion Fury, etc that've brought back the formula and gaming style we love with a new spin on it thanks to the creativity of devs who are our age and grew up with the classic games. A few games of this I've been following the development of intimately are HROT, Wrath: Aeon of Ruin, Hellbound and especially Prodeus which happens to have our own @Dragonfly weaving his magic for it and I can't wait to play on his maps.

[Doom_Dude]

19 minutes ago, Avoozl said:

The new dooms are too arena based for my liking.

 

I think I find Eternal to be the my least favorite in the series and I like Doom 2016 much more than Eternal. I just want to kill the fuck out of shit, not be swing dashing on poles to get to the killing parts.

[jazzmaster9]

pfft Doom Eternal and Doom 2016 are crap anyway, I want less shooters like that and more nostalgia throwbacks thats just GZDoom with HD textures that are just the same thing over and over for 20 years.

 

But to answer the original OP, simply put, its not really a popular style of shooter and most Triple A devs want the most ammount of profit with the least amount of Effort so they either resort to using the popular Trends or banking on Micro transactions and Pay 2 Win strategies.

 

right now the trend seem to be Open World Cinematic RPGS with Large empty environments and 1000 quests.

[DRM-MAN]

1 minute ago, jazzmaster9 said:

pfft Doom Eternal and Doom 2016 are crap anyway, I want less shooters like that and more nostalgia throwbacks thats just GZDoom with HD textures that are just the same thing over and over for 20 years.

 

But to answer the original OP, simply put, its not really a popular style of shooter and most Triple A devs want the most ammount of profit with the least amount of Effort so they either resort to using the popular Trends or banking on Micro transactions and Pay 2 Win strategies.

Prepare for the reee squads godspeed.

[jazzmaster9]

I mean I get it, those companies need to get as much money as possible to keep employees paid and stockholders happy. Thats just the nature of any industry.

 

Everyone saw the success of Red Dead and Witcher 3 so every company will try to have a clone of that made.

[Gerardo194]

Why aren't there more shooters like Doom 4 and Eternal?? 

Because they would be considered as New Doom clones. 

[A Nobody]

How are Doom 4 and Eternal bad?

[Gerardo194]

7 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

How are Doom 4 and Eternal bad?

What?? Never... 

I don't know what are you referring to... 

But they're not bad. 

[Gerardo194]

1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

But to answer the original OP, simply put, its not really a popular style of shooter and most Triple A devs want the most ammount of profit with the least amount of Effort so they either resort to using the popular Trends or banking on Micro transactions and Pay 2 Win strategies.

@The Strife Commando what this guy say here is almost true or simply true.

Here in my country, Doom Eternal was in stores and people know about the game but actually they are not interested in Doom games, that was just in the late 90's probably. 

People here are most interested in CoD, Halo, Fornite, Minecraft and other modern shooters. 

In my honest opinion would be if New Doom would go back with the classic multi-player deathmatch style, Doom would be more popular here and sure there would be more FPS games a la Doom or a mix between Doom and modern shooters. 

[Doominator2]

1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

pfft Doom Eternal and Doom 2016 are crap anyway, I want less shooters like that and more nostalgia throwbacks thats just GZDoom with HD textures that are just the same thing over and over for 20 years.

Weren't you praising Doom 2016 in other threads, what made you change you mind? 

[Doomkid]

2 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

pfft Doom Eternal and Doom 2016 are crap anyway, I want less shooters like that and more nostalgia throwbacks thats just GZDoom with HD textures that are just the same thing over and over for 20 years.

I feel like this is unintentionally an insult to wadmaking itself as a hobby. If a glut of classic-doom-like content would strike you as "the same thing over and over for 20 years" I genuinely have to ask if you enjoy playing pwads?

 

Some of us actually kind of like the "same thing over and over" that we've had for so long now, because that "same thing" was more fun from the get-go than everything that's attempted to replace it in the last 25 years. (At least to me, that's why I'm still making and playing WADs..)

[jazzmaster9]

58 minutes ago, Doominator2 said:

Weren't you praising Doom 2016 in other threads, what made you change you mind? 

It was an obvious s/ on my part, I was making a joke about how Doom Eternal and 2016 are objectively bad because they didn't try to emulate the 90s style.

51 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I feel like this is unintentionally an insult to wadmaking itself as a hobby. If a glut of classic-doom-like content would strike you as "the same thing over and over for 20 years" I genuinely have to ask if you enjoy playing pwads?

I've been making Doom mapsets and TCs for 5 years so yes i do enjoy playing them. but at the same time Doom 1/2 isn't the same as Doom 3 or Doom 2016/Eternal and never did i expect them to be.

[Szuran]

There's a bunchof them, though. But they're mostly roguelikes. Playing Immortal Redneck gave me strong Doom vibes, at least when it comes to movement (and the arena-like nature of the thing). Ziggurat is another example. I just wish these games had actual designed levels instead of this boring randomized crap.

[Tony_Danza_the_boss]

Doom 4 is a near perfect game for me. Eternal is not. To each their own but Eternal feels like it was dumbed down to market for more mass appeal.

[jazzmaster9]

4 minutes ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

 Eternal feels like it was dumbed down to market for more mass appeal

Yet Eternal is the one where people complained about the Difficulty and Overload of mechanics and complex Platforming.... sounds like a contradiction for the sake of objectively justifying your dislike for the game since that is the opposite of being dumbed down

[seed]

54 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Yet Eternal is the one where people complained about the Difficulty and Overload of mechanics and complex Platforming.... sounds like a contradiction for the sake of objectively justifying your dislike for the game since that is the opposite of being dumbed down

 

That's actually a good point.

 

Indeed, for an allegedly "dumbed down" game, a lot of people found the experience to be the exact opposite - skill-based and thrilling, that took practice and getting used to in order to get the most out of it. Eternal was also more complex than 2016 was overall. So, if id wanted to cater to as many people as possible and "the masses", they've done a truly awful job - they've achieved the exact opposite.

 

9 hours ago, DRMman said:

You can thank half-life for the "upgrade" in shooters

 

*sigh*

 

I get it that nowadays it's cool to shit on HL and point fingers at it as being the great originator of evil, but newsflash: HL is not the reason for the way the industry is, and for all means and purposes, there isn't even much common ground, if any, between it and blockbuster titles made nowadays.

[jazzmaster9]

5 minutes ago, seed said:

That's actually a good point.

 

Indeed, for an allegedly "dumbed down" game, a lot of people found the experience to be the exact opposite

I mean its easier to blame a game for being "dumbed down"/"Bad" than to accept that the game is not for you. Its a defense mechanism.

[Biodegradable]

I don't think pinning the cause of the blanderization of modern shooters that happened throughtout the mid-to-late 2000s on Half-Life is particularly accurate, honestly. From my observations over the past decade and a half or so, it was really the mass commercialisation of the Call of Duty franchise where a new one was shat out every year for 15 years straight after the second one in 2005, which helped ingrain the gritty, realistic military shooters that muddied the waters for the genre as every other dev who would put out a shooter would follow suit with similar aesthetics and mechanics to CoD to capitalise on the trend.

 

Half-Life was about storytelling and innovation, Call of Duty was about money.

 

 

[seed]

27 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

I don't think pinning the cause of the blanderization of modern shooters that happened throughtout the mid-to-late 2000s on Half-Life is particularly accurate, honestly. From my observations over the past decade and a half or so, it was really the mass commercialisation of the Call of Duty franchise where a new one was shat out every year for 15 years straight after the second one in 2005, which helped ingrain the gritty, realistic military shooters that muddied the waters for the genre as every other dev who would put out a shooter would follow suit with similar aesthetics and mechanics to CoD to capitalise on the trend.

 

Half-Life was about storytelling and innovation, Call of Duty was about money.

 

Besides, "negatively" HL may only have popularized linear progression and interactive storytelling, the first once in particular seems to be a major objection from those who prefer non-linear design and exploration. I myself don't really do, personally, so this is not a bad influence from my POV at all. This is one of the more subjective changes.

 

The irony here is also that Valve actually did care from exploration in the maps, it is the main reason why they've placed some emphasis on exploration in the games, best observed in Ravenholm, Sandtraps and Highway 17 in HL2, or the Victory Mine in Episode 2. Even the horror aspects were important to its sci-fi world, which got a "buff" in Episode 1 especially - Lowlife is essentially a survival horror-esque chapter, and an awesome one at that too. HL was not and never was meant to be a bleak, creatively bankrupt corridor shooter, and never ended up being so either. It took other games for this aspect to become far more pronounced in the industry, same for cutscenes and making the experience feel much more like an interactive movie rather than a video game.

 

Weapon carry limit would be another problematic aspect, which was popularized by Halo and CoD. But here's the thing, CoD was actually good once, in fact, up until MW2 or so it was fairly decent and I enjoyed playing these games, the first two CoD games probably still being the best, when they were about quality and not money. But, once it was annualized absolutely all life and creativity was sucked from it - when... which game was it... Advanced Warface that took the players into space? Yeah, see how that turned out... creativity is "bad" for the franchise now.

Edited May 29, 2020 by seed