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releasecandidate

Pistol start/Quicksaves/Permadeath? How do you play?

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I recently played through Doom 1/Doom2 for the first time on HMP with quicksave and I have to admit, there were times I abused that quicksave. Sometimes I would make the smallest modicum of progress and quicksave. Of course I was playing on Switch so due to turn speed and my lack of coordination with controllers, I had an extra level of difficulty. I really enjoyed the style of maps so I decided to start playing some user levels on PC. Some truly difficult maps had me quicksaving every few seconds I stayed alive in a battle with a cyberdemon. I started watching some people on YouTube play with pistol starts and no quicksave and it inspired me to try to get better. So now I'm playing TNT through with pistol starts and no quicksaves. I'm enjoying the added drama, but I must admit there is a level of frustration, especially after some of those long levels that throw something unexpected at you in the last room. One day I hope to be good enough to play on UV. This game is so wonderful in there are so many different ways you can play, but it's all okay. You wanna just stroll through on ITYTD? That's okay! We're just here to have fun and kill demons! 

 

How do YOU play YOUR doom? 

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Continuous with saves, I only pistol start when things get too easy or I finish a map with such low health it's just not worth struggling on the next one with this.

 

If I die, I reload the saves from that map, usually.

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    Depends really, if it a set I am familiar with, or if I grade a mapset as being 'of my skill level', then I play UV without saves, but I usually play continuous. If too hard, I will tone down to HMP, then HMP with saves and so forth. If a map is large though then I will always play with saves, I do not have infinite time on my hands.

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Posted (edited)

I do a bit of everything. 

 

Current ports are mostly Eternity Engine (a classic port, so without using freelook) and GZDoom with freelook and no autoaim. 

 

I do everything from saveless 'Iron'-style runs to using saves (which can be light, like every several minutes, or heavy, like between every fight/area or during long fights). And I play both unmodded and I also like to try out gameplay mods. 


Lately I've been playing a continuous RPG-style gameplay mod, and one thing I generally do is play maps with saves but occasionally record a video of a map saveless. It creates content that people have enjoyed, keeps me sharp, and is a neat burst of excitement -- but I wouldn't want to just truck through every map saveless because that would be way more energy-intensive than I want. 

 

Even for saveless stuff, I sometimes plan and practice it, but more commonly I just focus on doing that for the critical 'high-leverage' aspects and wing everything else. Occasional mistakes and improv is often more exciting.


Mostly just adjust to whatever I'm playing to enjoy it the most. My mindset is it's unfair to take one approach to playing and expect everything to fit it like a glove and complain when it doesn't, so I try to avoid that. 

Edited by rdwpa

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2 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Current ports are mostly Eternity Engine (a classic port, so no freelook) and GZDoom with freelook and no autoaim. 

 

Why Eternity over, say, PrBoom+?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, releasecandidate said:

 

Why Eternity over, say, PrBoom+?

Personal preference, really.  Plus Eternity is like a bridge between vanilla Doom gameplay and ZDoom-like gameplay - if you want gameplay mods while retaining compatiblity stuff, it's the port for you. It's also VERY underrated.

In terms of editing:

  • Eternity supports UDMF - theoretically you could run some GZDoom UDMF maps with Eternity.
  • EDF allowing you to make some pretty fun stuff; its flexiblity is comparable to ZDoom's DECORATE.

PRBoom+, while a good choice for hardcore (and general lowend) players, is not actually good for modding.

 

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from a Discord convo I had: 

 

Quote

prBoom+ [2.5.1.5] is better at simulation perfect things like vanilla/Boom-format/MBF to a tee, and it's the dedicated port for demo recording/watching.

 

Eternity Engine has better mousecode and I think feels better to use, so if you aren't recording or watching demos and don't need simulation perfection, it might be the better pick. Eternity Engine is also actively maintained and improving.

 

prB+ also has hardware rendering and MBF support.

 

EE has a bunch of neat modding features and an expanding set of dedicated maps/mods for it. 

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I'm very new to the experience as well in a since because I haven't played Doom this much in close to 20 years (Christ, that makes me feel old lol) but after powering through the classic Doom 1 & 2 campaigns, along with Thy Flesh Consumed, I found myself mainly pistol starting on HMP for most community WADs and if I feel I'm getting away with things too easily, I'll start over on UV. Mind you, UV manages to kick my arse most of the time hehe. I use the GZDoom port and have been tinkering with various gameplay mods, my favourites right now being Brutal Doom and Trailblazer.

 

I really am enjoying myself and it's an absolute privilege to be able to explore the creativity of the Doom community. :^)

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10 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Personal preference, really.  Plus Eternity is like a bridge between vanilla Doom gameplay and ZDoom-like gameplay - if you want gameplay mods while retaining compatiblity stuff, it's the port for you. It's also VERY underrated.

In terms of editing:

  • Eternity supports UDMF - theoretically you could run some GZDoom UDMF maps with Eternity.
  • EDF allowing you to make some pretty fun stuff; its flexiblity is comparable to ZDoom's DECORATE.

PRBoom+, while a good choice for hardcore (and general lowend) players, is not actually good for modding.

 

It's also getting more and more feature packed by the day. AND will eventually have Heretic, Hexen, and Strife support too.

 

But unlike PrBoom, it does not have a GL render, and it may, or may not ever have one.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, seed said:

But unlike PrBoom, it does not have a GL render, and it may, or may not ever have one.

Does having a Gl2D renderer count?

Plus Heretic support is functional last time I checked, the only major thing need to be fixed right now is the inventory management.

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Posted (edited)

As an avid GBA Doom 2 player, I cannot actually save in a level by traditional means. Of course I can use save states but I find it to be cheating a little bit. I usually play normally. Sometimes I do Ironman but rarely. Fun Fact for you: The SSG is actually faster in GBA Doom 2 which makes it more OP than it already is.

 

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Just now, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Does having a Gl2D renderer count?

 

Nope, it's still Software.

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I afford myself three saves (not counting start save at beginning of new level), one save per key, used only when not in combat. Continous play.

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Posted (edited)

My first walkthrough of a wad is usually continuous with saves. Depending on the difficulty of the wad, my subsequent walkthroughs are either saveless pistol starts or continuous with only level-start save.

 

53 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Eternity is like a bridge between vanilla Doom gameplay and ZDoom-like gameplay - if you want gameplay mods while retaining compatiblity stuff, it's the port for you. It's also VERY underrated.

 

Agreed. It is probably the most underrated Doom source port.

 

Quote

Plus Heretic support is functional last time I checked, the only major thing need to be fixed right now is the inventory management.

 

Even inventory system works fine. The only major things missing are morph ovum logic and Tomed attacks of some weapons like dragon claw and hellstaff. Otherwise, Heretic is perfectly beatable in Eternity Engine dev builds.

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I had always the habit of save-spamming, maybe out of fear of dying after a lot of progress in a map, even if I am good enough for more common map but usually by some unexpected accident. Anyway,. after I was looking at Civies challenge to finish Plutonia UV with pistol start and no quicksave, I tried to take it and saw what I was missing. I would die 2-3 times at few maps but it made it more challenging and I had these moments where I was with 15% health or less and I knew a death would mean I have to play the whole thing again (I had one such moment for example playing a big eternal Doom map MAP04 I think, which is over an hour, and stuck in a trap with machine gunners and archville, I still remember how I was trying to not die trembling my hand/camera coordination, shooting stuff and running away,. because a death would not mean quickload but you have to play this crate maze and sewer megalith all over the beginning). Anyway,. I ended up playing each Doom 1/2 map TNT and Plutonia pistol start UV and no quicksave, and managed to do them all.

 

But this autosave mod is interesting. Is there a difference? At least I won't do the savespamming, will have my mind free (I neither won't to use the resurrection command in Zdoom, as this is megacheating and I feel bad for using it).

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It's either large amounts of time between saves or permadeath, for tnt and plutonia i use saves but if it's doom 1 or 2 then it's permadeath.

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4 hours ago, releasecandidate said:

 

i only save at the start of a level for all of the level

 

yes even plutonia

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I usually play in UV continuous, and I try initially to play a map without saves. If I've died two or three times though, I'll revert to occasional saves in a map of average or greater size. I'm generally not very interested in replaying stuff I've already completed, and as a result I tend to rush through it out of boredom, which will sometimes result in errors which will necessitate another restart and more annoyance and frustration....hence the resort to saving. It's not so bad if I leave a decent space of time to cool down before restarting, the problems tend to arise if I restart straightaway.

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The first time I played through Doom 2 with pistol starts, it was a revelation on par with suddenly gaining an appreciation for coffee without milk or sugar. There's so much structure and nuance in the gameplay that's lost when you play continuous. Especially if we're talking megawad-continuous (Doom 1 episodes are a different story).

 

Every once in a while I'll try to go totally saveless, but I'm not good enough and I don't have enough dooming time for that level of dedication. I once spent a few months working my way halfway through Alien Vendetta before I decided to switch back.

 

Unfortunately, much level design/gameplay hinges on foreknowledge. Vile and Commando ambushes are often trivial with foreknowledge and fatal without. I personally consider an emphasis on rehearsal a weakness in any game.

 

I've gone through periods where I'm in top form and I can calmly dispatch several cyberdemons consecutively with 2/3 point-blank BFG shots, but I don't normally perform at that level.

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I exclusively play with pistol starts. Feels like I'm cheating if I play continuously - especially if I find a BFG early. I try not to save scum, but if I find myself running through a level effortlessly until a certain battle, I'll save before it. What's the sense of grinding over and over again just to die immediately? I'll allow myself maybe 1-2 saves a level if it's really giving me trouble. 

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I pistol start on most maps, but occasionally play continuous. Don't worry about playing without saves. I pretty much never play without saves unless it's a map that I have a goal to beat saveless.

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I tend to only play continuously on megawads that are designed for it. Otherwise I always pistol start. 

 

As for saving, I use to save as often as possible in the middle of big fights or whenever low on health. Now I try save as little as possible, if at all, for non slaughter maps but will save right before and after big fights for wads like Sunder.

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On my first trip through a megawad, I'll play on Continuous, with three staggered tiers of saves for Safe, Unsafe, & Mid-Battle situations. Once I've come to the end of the campaign in that mode, I'll start revisiting the maps in Pistol Start mode, with the same saving setup. Only after I've put in that bit of practice do I finally make start making saveless attempts at levels.

 

I pick my battles carefully; I'm not that great at the game, and there are many maps which are simply beyond my ability (or just way too damn long). But finally nailing a saveless run is something that I find to be a really satisfying goal.

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UV, pistol start, maybe saves. Typically depends on how hard the map is and how long it is. If I don't expect it to be very long or hard, I'll often try to play saveless even if I've never played it before. Sometimes I regret this choice.

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Continuous w/saves, unless the megawad itself forces pistol start.

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Usually UV and continuous (with saves), unless I want to have some chillax time, in which case I switch to HMP or HNTR.

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Ultra-perma-death: if I die, I turn the game off and don't play for a month.

 

But really - usually continuous with saves, but I try to avoid save-spamming and frequent reloading.

 

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