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Posted (edited)

**Done Updating This Thread. Will Post another when the all maps are finished**

Hi! I've been trying my hand at Doom Builder 2 for the past month, and this is what I've done so far. I would appreciate feedback on them so far.

I used original Doom 2 assets. There was also some BTSX lights for a second but I realized I shouldn't do that so now there's some

worse mock-ups I did.

I've tested in 99% in PrBoom+ but it should work in GZDoom as well. Use original Doom lighting. Tell me what bugs you find. Actually if you want

to playtest it really I'd like it if you didn't use jump, crouch, or mouselook. I want it to play fine without those.

 

Currently eight maps. I think the later ones are better. Might take about an hour to and hour and a half now.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, each map is meant to be played from pistol start.

 

A few, boring, easy, screenshots:

Spoiler

map2.png.31cf224bfdb3cfd0e5202dc5dd097099.pngmap3.png.ff0e7c5eae0a2f92d93b406a2f002afc.pngmap5.png.4620bc81ced17a470303f95d1d3d607a.pngmap7.png.5a3d2c58104fa73d3523e3d63d2aebe9.png

 

Newest version adds map 8. I had a lot of problems with making this map, and the end is honestly hobbled together. When I say I problems I mean that changing the geometry in any way will break some visuals in various locations. Doom engine I guess. So while enemy and item placements may be changed the maze at the end is not getting better.

 

Full Changelog:

Spoiler

* version 0.3 *
-Removed Plutonia Assets
-Added Map 7
-No Balance Changes

 

* version 0.3.1 *
-Fixed bugs in maps 6 and 7

 

* version 0.3.2 *
Map 1
-Changed enemies in secret area to be less annoying
Map 2
-Removed some tankier enemies
Map 3
-Added additional health to sewers
-Red key room was slightly increased in size to enable easier escape
Map 4
-Made very beginning easier
-Added a total of 100 health throughout the map
Map 7
-Just actually removed a whole cyberdemon

 

* version 0.3.3 *
-Added exit signs to all maps except map 6, because is jumping into that hole not obvious enough?

Map 1

- Fixed a GZDoom issue where you would get trapped in the secret area
Map 2
- Added escape from the exit room if you fall down early
Map 4
-Platforms are now 9216 square units larger
Map 5
-Made the second cramped curvy room even more annoying to live in
-Tried to better signpost the switch to leave second cramped curvy room
Map 7
-Made secrets more obvious (yes)
-Added a lot of health to the starting pit
-Megasphere secret is now a mega-armor
-Added additional ammo througout
-Added security armor to revanant battlements
-Blood Pool Arena now has additional staircases for freer player movement
-Second cacodemon ambush now three less cacodemons difficult
Map 8
Unfinished, like only the start exists

 

* Re-added Plutonia, that concrete texture is really nice *

 

 

Download (Newest Version):

FTMv0_4.zip

 

Edited by Nutsy-Nutsy : Updated for newest version

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Posted (edited)

i decided to play a couple of maps, i thought they were excellent for a first try, but i would recommend that you switched to Ultimate Doom Builder, as Doom Builder 2 is no longer maintained, also, i would recommend you got rid of the Plutonia textures if you're going to get rid of the BTSX textures, because, at least in my eyes, taking textures from a commercial PWAD is around the same level of "evil" as taking textures from a community PWAD with a license that forbids it, i wish you the best of luck with your future mapping endeavors

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18 minutes ago, sergeirocks100 said:

i decided to play a couple of maps, i thought they were excellent for a first try, but i would recommend that you switched to Ultimate Doom Builder, as Doom Builder 2 is no longer maintained, also, i would recommend you got rid of the Plutonia textures if you're going to get rid of the BTSX textures, because, at least in my eyes, taking textures from a commercial PWAD is around the same level of "evil" as taking textures from a community PWAD with a license that forbids it, i wish you the best of luck with your future mapping endeavors

Thanks for the info. The Plutonia thing makes a lot of sense now that you mention it. Guess I'll have to find new concrete and sky textures.

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Playing through on UV in Zandronum.


Map 1: Unless I missed something, you could consider giving more ammo to this map. You seem to want a Pain Elemental and Mancubus taken out with almost no SG ammo and the Pistol. While there is a Berserk pack, it's not found until much later in the map. Once the door to the Pain Elemental closes, it seems as though there's no way to open it again, trapping the player.

 

Map 2: So far I've run into 3 Hell Knights, a Mancubus, 2 Cacodemons, 2 Revenant and an Arch Vile with only a SG and CG for weapons. With that kind of enemy I would be looking to have a SSG minimum. The exit also isn't really signposted that well.

 

Map 3: A lot of acid to run over at the start, including a compulsory section, with no Radiation Suit. The ambushes in this map feel disproportionate to everything else. In particular, you give a Rocket Launcher in a room that is so small it's virtually impossible to use it there, even though the enemies you put in there are ones you would want to use it on.

 

Map 4: I'm not sure why the entire battle in the first part of this map is all on acid. I died to yet another large ambush on damaging floors and stopped playing.

 

Some good stuff here. Some more thought maybe needs to go into the balancing, both in terms of weapons and enemies. I went from having almost no decent firepower to SSG/RL/PG in no time, and I had to fight a lot of mid-tier enemies before getting my hands on the SSG. Tight, enclosed ambushes can be very frustrating as well.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Degree23 said:

Playing through on UV in Zandronum.

I tried balancing the maps so that on ultra violence I expected players to find the secrets, for instance the mega-armor in map 3. Wasn't sure how people would feel about that. There's also a chaingun on map 1 you get by bumping a wall but I couldn't figure out how to make it tag properly, so it is admittedly too hidden. I'll add some more shotgun ammo to the map.

 

Map 2: I think the big problem might be the Archvile, I'll remove him. Maybe add an SSG secret.

Map 3: Do you really think a radiation suit is necessary or would adding more health to the end of the tunnel help? I recognized while building the two key rooms they were probably too cramped. Do you think removing some of the enemies would help or just make them larger?

Map 4: I'll be honest the entire map is acid. The idea was to force players around the pillars and have them move when enemies get too close. I wasn't sure how fun that gameplay style would be and really I'm not ready to scrap the whole map. Need some real vitriol to be convinced it is truly horrible. I guess the hell knights and lost souls at the start are a step too far.

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I suppose there's many different ways of using secrets, and philosophies of using them. I've always considered secrets to be something that are never required to adequately beat a map, but finding one or two makes the map comfortable, and finding all of them makes it quite a bit easier as a reward for finding them. (If it's a large-ish map with many secrets) That's not to say my way of thinking of them is better than anyone else's though.

 

Map 2: Really any time you're fighting something that takes more than 2 SSG blasts to kill, without having a SSG/RL or better, is something that needs careful thought. Rarely are those encounters dangerous, usually they are just tedious. The odd enemy isn't too bad, but to kill the enemies I mentioned would take about 20-25 SSG blasts (depending on RNG), which means with only a SG/CG you're looking at spending ages shooting them all.

Map 3: Maybe actually just some 1 HP vials dotted along the acid path would be good. I think if the trap rooms were about 25-40% (depending on what you want to do) larger then it's more workable. It's very easy to get hemmed in.

Map 4: If that's the whole map, I'd maybe make the safe areas around the pillar one "tile" larger then, to give a bit more wiggle room.

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Posted (edited)

Holy woah that's a long video! It's midnight for me right now so I'll look at that later. Thank you!

I expect this to be very helpful in terms of seeing how new players figure stuff out.

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A fair effort for a beginner, keep making maps. I liked map04 the best as it worked to execute a concept and was pretty exciting to play. Some pointers for future mapping endeavours:

 

- these maps mostly felt kinda cramped both in physical size and monster placement, which can be an effective tool in moderation, but left unchecked can make things feel like a bit of a clusterfuck

- perhaps work on texturing a bit more, in places these maps felt a bit unfinished due to fairly monotone texturing. Breaking up massive stretches of single textures goes a long way to adding a bit of detail and making things feel more polished - Plutonia might be a good wad to study as they use relatively few textures per map but manage to retain detail and visual polish

- test your maps with and without secrets to make sure you are happy with how they play in either circumstance, because not every player will find secrets (and there are a lot of powerful secrets in these maps), this is especially important with regards to secret weapons

 

On 5/30/2020 at 4:24 AM, sergeirocks100 said:

i would recommend you got rid of the Plutonia textures if you're going to get rid of the BTSX textures, because, at least in my eyes, taking textures from a commercial PWAD is around the same level of "evil" as taking textures from a community PWAD with a license that forbids it

 

This is nonsense tbh, countless wads out there have used Plutonia textures over the years.

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14 hours ago, Scotty said:

- perhaps work on texturing a bit more, in places these maps felt a bit unfinished due to fairly monotone texturing. Breaking up massive stretches of single textures goes a long way to adding a bit of detail and making things feel more polished - Plutonia might be a good wad to study as they use relatively few textures per map but manage to retain detail and visual polish

Looks suspiciously at Speed

 

But actually though I'll take that into account. I'm not very good at the arting aspect beyond being obsessive over aligning textures as best I can. In terms of level flow and room size I think the already done maps will stay roughly the same even though they are pretty cramped, but I'll take that into account for future maps.

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NEIS used Plutonia textures, and it was considered so kosher that id actually released it as an official addon. Sergeirocks is well-intentioned, but wrong - you are quite free to use those textures.

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On 6/1/2020 at 10:38 AM, Scotty said:

A fair effort for a beginner, keep making maps. I liked map04 the best as it worked to execute a concept and was pretty exciting to play. Some pointers for future mapping endeavours:

 

- these maps mostly felt kinda cramped both in physical size and monster placement, which can be an effective tool in moderation, but left unchecked can make things feel like a bit of a clusterfuck

- perhaps work on texturing a bit more, in places these maps felt a bit unfinished due to fairly monotone texturing. Breaking up massive stretches of single textures goes a long way to adding a bit of detail and making things feel more polished - Plutonia might be a good wad to study as they use relatively few textures per map but manage to retain detail and visual polish

- test your maps with and without secrets to make sure you are happy with how they play in either circumstance, because not every player will find secrets (and there are a lot of powerful secrets in these maps), this is especially important with regards to secret weapons

 

 

This is nonsense tbh, countless wads out there have used Plutonia textures over the years.

 

25 minutes ago, Faceman2000 said:

NEIS used Plutonia textures, and it was considered so kosher that id actually released it as an official addon. Sergeirocks is well-intentioned, but wrong - you are quite free to use those textures.

i suppose i was in the wrong, but i was simply suggesting that if he wanted to be 100 percent on the safe side, considering that he was ditching the BTSX textures, that he should probably get rid of the Plutonia textures as well, with Plutonia being part of Final Doom, a commercial product, i assumed that the textures would be forbidden from reuse, but i stand corrected

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Final update for now is done. Map eight is now finished, though it didn't work out that well honestly. I plan to finish 4 more maps for this wad, when I get those done I will post another thread. Thank you everyone who helped me! The final four maps should be a big improvement over the previous ones.

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Posted (edited)

Currently on level 5 (Warped chamber). There's a big jump in difficulty with this level but so far, it's been pretty good.  

 

With level 4, it would be nice if there was a switch on each platform that would bring up a small bridge to get to the next platform without. I get that the point is to avoid the acid and fight along the central pillar, but it's a pain when you're at 2%HP and trapped on an island. Just make them come up really slowly so people don't abuse them. 

 

A second green armor in level 5 before getting the blue keycard would be nice. I know there's the megasphere, but I haven't been able to reach it yet.

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On 5/30/2020 at 3:53 AM, Nutsy-Nutsy said:
  Reveal hidden contents

map2.png.31cf224bfdb3cfd0e5202dc5dd097099.pngmap3.png.ff0e7c5eae0a2f92d93b406a2f002afc.pngmap5.png.4620bc81ced17a470303f95d1d3d607a.pngmap7.png.5a3d2c58104fa73d3523e3d63d2aebe9.png

  Reveal hidden contents

* version 0.3 *
-Removed Plutonia Assets
-Added Map 7
-No Balance Changes

 

* version 0.3.1 *
-Fixed bugs in maps 6 and 7

 

* version 0.3.2 *
Map 1
-Changed enemies in secret area to be less annoying
Map 2
-Removed some tankier enemies
Map 3
-Added additional health to sewers
-Red key room was slightly increased in size to enable easier escape
Map 4
-Made very beginning easier
-Added a total of 100 health throughout the map
Map 7
-Just actually removed a whole cyberdemon

 

* version 0.3.3 *
-Added exit signs to all maps except map 6, because is jumping into that hole not obvious enough?

Map 1

- Fixed a GZDoom issue where you would get trapped in the secret area
Map 2
- Added escape from the exit room if you fall down early
Map 4
-Platforms are now 9216 square units larger
Map 5
-Made the second cramped curvy room even more annoying to live in
-Tried to better signpost the switch to leave second cramped curvy room
Map 7
-Made secrets more obvious (yes)
-Added a lot of health to the starting pit
-Megasphere secret is now a mega-armor
-Added additional ammo througout
-Added security armor to revanant battlements
-Blood Pool Arena now has additional staircases for freer player movement
-Second cacodemon ambush now three less cacodemons difficult
Map 8
Unfinished, like only the start exists

 

* Re-added Plutonia, that concrete texture is really nice *

 

 

13 hours ago, Nutsy-Nutsy said:

Final update for now is done. Map eight is now finished, though it didn't work out that well honestly. I plan to finish 4 more maps for this wad, when I get those done I will post another thread. Thank you everyone who helped me! The final four maps should be a big improvement over the previous ones.

 

ok m8, i ve a recorded video of all maps to be loaded on you tube. i had fun for the most parts, there are tons of unfair situations as you will hear in my comments. Map 08 was done separately and it was the worst one, map 07 by far the best, i had a lot of fun. Map 08 was just frustrating, i had to berserk 3 archviles and countless other monsters while saving and loading continuosly cause i couldnt find weapons, you cant expect me to find a rocket launcher when i am surrounded by tons of random shit. The rest were honest maps for a starter. i will tell you once the vids are ready!

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Posted (edited)

 

i hope that this video will help fixing it! no offense i was just frustrated, it happens ! :) cheers

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