If you could somehow patch Classic Doom, what would you change?

[Mangcubus]

Try to stick to small, realistic changes.

• Make this pistol perfectly accurate and slightly faster so it isn't totally useless. This one is so obvious that a ton of otherwise vanilla wads come with it.
• Fix the weird hitbox bugs that make the chainsaw useless against spiders.
• Pinkies should gib.
• Add support for conveyer floors to the code for cool fight setpieces and voodoo doll contraptions.
• Give the super shotty it's own number key and ARMS icon in your HUD.
• Smooth out the RNG table a bit. It should not be possible to not gib a Zombieman with a rocket.

[Redneckerz]

You can alter things with DeHackEd, but you can also hack the executable directly.

 

Some of what you are suggesting requires a source code change though.

[ReaperAA]

Most (or all) of what is suggested is doable via Decorate/ZScript in GZDoom. Some of the things like Pistol accuracy/RoF (and Pinkies gib probably) are also possible via DeHacked.

[Chip]

not even patch doom 2, but replace that cybie in map 32 with a SM.

[Gokuma]

Fix a load of map errors: Missing textures, unclosed sectors, unaligned textures, pointless unused/unneccesary tags, map15 secret sector that's too narrow.   Add some alpha details back.   Set Spider Mastermind's width not so ridiculously wide.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Gokuma

[andrewj]

I would make modding easier: e.g. each texture is a single lump, and you can replace any texture or sprite or flat without any of the weird shit you need to do now (with vanilla Doom).

[Dragonsbrethren]

Are we talking today or back in 1993/94? Because I've always wished id read the level order, including skies and secret exits, from the WAD instead of hardcoding them into the executable. I feel like we would've seen a lot more quality releases if there weren't this "need" for major projects to occupy all 32 of Doom 2's level slots. Just think of how many unfinished megawads are probably rotting on a forgotten HDD somewhere because of mapper's block.

 

Today it's pointless, although I still feel like it's taken the community an awful long time to add UMAPINFO to the Boom standard. Hopefully id's latest Doom Classic port motivates more ports to support their DMAPINFO lump.

[nicolas monti]

I'd simple give more chances to pinkies when infighting, also more speed for them and a hit box of 56 units instead of 64 so they don't get stuck in narrow curves or blocked in populated rooms so easily.

For spidermasterminds the same health of the cyberdemon and also smaller hitbox and an increase of walk speed.

Same smaller hitbox for arachnotrons, basically they cannot move in spaces less wide than 160 units that are not angled at 90 degress.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Gokuma said:

Fix a load of map errors: Missing textures, unclosed sectors, unaligned textures, pointless unused/unneccesary tags, map15 secret sector that's too narrow.   Add some alpha details back.

 

This for me as well, maybe patch up Doom's and the engine's remaining bugs as well, but that's pointless since ZDoom fixes them anyway and emulates them when/if wanted/needed.

[Gez]

If we time-traveled back in December 1993 and sneaked into id's office to tweak their files while they aren't looking, I would:

- fix a lot of the bugs documented on the wiki

- fix all the sprites and texture glitches, too (cf. sprite fix project)

- make the collision code fully 3D instead of being split between a horizontal step and a vertical step, no more infinite vertical collisions

- bring in some of the Hexen code so we have MAPINFO (but probably closer to modern variants that have less parser ambiguities), ANIMDEFS, SNDINFO, etc.

- change the map format so that, just like Hexen, line effects and line triggers are separate fields, so any effect can be WR or G1 or whatever.

- add lineID and thingID while I'm at it, to allow effects that target lines or things instead of just sectors

- export the state table and the actor table to be IWAD lumps, so that they can be easily redefined and extended in mods.

- fix the texture conflicts between Doom and Doom II

- give the spidey the abandoned "magic attack", making it an effect that's basically the Hexen disc of repulsion so you can't get too close to it, also give bump its hit points to 6000 so it deserves better its status as bigger boss than the cybie

 

Now allegedly there would be more interesting things to do with time travel...

[Mystic 256]

I kinda would of made doom 2 sort of vanilla plus for mappers in some ways along with a few other things

 

- add falls textures for water, mud/sewage, and lava in doom 2 since they don't have falls textures like blood and nukage

- add the missing doom 1 textures and switches to doom 2

- replace the texture SUPPORT3 with SUPP316A from CC4Tex since it basically a better version of SUPPORT3

- add intermission maps to doom 2 like how doom 1 had intermission maps

- instead of tag 666 and 667, make it so monsters have specials and tags which activate stuff upon their death so its more flexible than tag 666/667 and can be used on any map with any monster's death instead of specific monsters

-  add a sort of mapinfo like thing for changing stuff like what map you go to after exiting a map, what map you would go to after using a secret exit (secret exits would work on any map not just 16 and 31), the ability to group maps into doom 1 style episodes,  specificing what midi to use, what sky texture to use, the map name and wouldnt have to add a intermission text graphic for the map name it would use letters (i don't know how to explain it), the text screens with the story and they could be before any map you want, and stuff

- add fsky2, fsky3, and fsky4 so we can have up 4 skys in a single map at once

[Novaseer]

Make the Spider Mastermind and Arachnotron thinner. Their sprites imply that they can fit into places which they can't.

[Gokuma]

Oh yeah definitely incorporate Revenent100's sprite fixes.   Knew there was something I was forgetting with the monsters.

[JXC]

Give it DECORATE support so people can make custom monsters and weapons and not just maps.

[idbeholdME]

Most of the stuff I'd want is already fixed/changed in ZDoom (with the added bonus of being able to mix and match the options).

 

One thing that I agree with would be reducing the huge RNG spread on everything. Especially Rocket Launcher and BFG. 20-160 damage? 100-800 damage? WTF is that?

[Mangcubus]

21 hours ago, Dragonsbrethren said:

Are we talking today or back in 1993/94? Because I've always wished id read the level order, including skies and secret exits, from the WAD instead of hardcoding them into the executable. I feel like we would've seen a lot more quality releases if there weren't this "need" for major projects to occupy all 32 of Doom 2's level slots. Just think of how many unfinished megawads are probably rotting on a forgotten HDD somewhere because of mapper's block.

 

Today it's pointless, although I still feel like it's taken the community an awful long time to add UMAPINFO to the Boom standard. Hopefully id's latest Doom Classic port motivates more ports to support their DMAPINFO lump.

What I was proposing was going back in time and making it so that vanilla Doom was always like this. Basically, nitpicking the base game without everything source ports have done to it.

[Redneckerz]

1 hour ago, Mangcubus said:

What I was proposing was going back in time and making it so that vanilla Doom was always like this. Basically, nitpicking the base game without everything source ports have done to it.

Executable hacks exist that do exactly that: They are the Vanilla executable, just with raised limits.

 

Such an exe could technically exist in 1993 since you aren't using source code for it, you are hex-editing the original Doom executable.

[DMPhobos]

If this was an official id patch done back in the day, the only thing i would want changed/fixed is the fact that targets are not preserved on saving the game in vanilla doom 2

[Nevander]

• Reduce Lost Soul health by half
• Chainsaw alerts monsters when selected
• Using fists will not alert monsters

[SaladBadger]

I know it's really controversial, but I could timetravel and change anything I'd like to see the blockmap bug repaired and perhaps hitscan intersect tests done against the 4 major faces of the AABB rather than its diagonals (making punching just that bit more reliable)

[xdarkmasterx]

What I'd do:

 

Remove RNG damage completely

 

Fix the weird collision detection and physics bugs (wall rebounding etc.)

 

Allow an option to turn off autoswitch

 

Make autoaim prioritise the enemy closest to middle of the screen, remove horizontal autoaim

 

Weapon changes:

 

Chainsaw: Doesn't lock your vision any more

 

Pistol: Replace with an assault rifle that acts like the old chaingun

 

Shotgun: Increase firing rate slightly

 

Chaingun: Double firing rate but reduce accuracy significantly (make it feel like it did in Wolf3D that one was epic :p)

 

Enemy changes:

 

All Zombies: Increase accuracy, make pre-fire time longer, give them 100% pain chance.

 

Pinky: Half HP, moves as fast on normal as it does on Nightmare (leave spectre as it is)

 

Cacodemon: Reduce to 200 HP, increase projectile speed

 

Baron of Hell: Increase attack speed, make shoot five projectiles in a spreadshot now (like what you get when you give a dehacked monster all 3 mancubus attacks at once, but with a wider spread and larger gaps between them)

 

Arachnotron and Mancubus: Reduce pain chance significantly

 

Lost Soul: Halve HP

 

Pain Elemental: Bites you if you get close to it like in Doom 64

 

Spider Mastermind: Give it a wall piercing laser that is obvious the path of the shot (no cheap hits) but is still not so easy to dodge, increase its HP beyond Cyberdemon (come on, it's the final boss).

 

 

 

 

 

Commander Keen: ⌘̷̨̧͔̰͔̪̝̩̲̳̤̭̥̭̰̠͈͎̩̝̠̹̺͈̻̺͉͔̜͕̞̜̬͔̝̟͋̑́͆͆̅̈́͆͑̉̓͌̓͗̒́̽̿͒͛̍̌̒́͆̽́̓̽̽̅̂̏̀̓̉́̊̑̔͌̌̀̌͒́̉̊̚̚̚͘͜͝͝͝ͅ︎̴̢̡̧̛̟͉̝̙̯͉̺̙̝̘̺̹̦̩̝̟̹͔͍̳̼̠̺̜̣̥̂̂̾̈́̽̿͗̋́̈́̕͜͜͜͝͝͝ͅ❒̵̨̡̢̧̛̛̤͎͕̦̱̟̖͎̦̼͔̭̙͙̮̬̘̱͖̗̤̜̬̣͕̣͎̯̞͐̌̊̈́̍̉͋̓̓͋̐̇́͋̓̆̂̽̐͌̉̔̈͛̈́̊͐̓̑̓͒͛̏́̐̌̽͘̕ͅ︎̸̢̧̣͓̲̘͈̘̜͔͇̳͚͈̱͉͓͔̞͖̭̦͚̦̇̚͜͜⬧̵̨̨̻̹̟̦̬̘̭͖̗̻͉̥̻̱̩̭͙̭̟̺̣̳̺̫͎͔̀͒̈́̆̀͆͐͜︎̷̧̢̢̻̮̫͉͕̻̣̗̜̟̜̩̮̱͎̻̱̞̱̝͎̙̯̟͚̻̩̠̲͈̥̜͚̯̹̮͈̝̩̉̀̋̽͛̐̀̅̏͐̈́͑͛̑͜͠͝⌘̶̡̛̝̤̥̬̰̼͖̰̣̩̟̫̭̱̋̉̓̈̀̐̀͆̒͌̈́́͑̉̂̕̚͝͝︎̸̧̧̨̧̢̦̘̮͚̳̮̱͔͍̬̦͔͍͔̙̝̻̗̙̟̩̙̜͕̼͕̳̮͙̫̩̬̥̞̹͙̫̱͎̺̞͔͎̜͍̻̺̞̖̝̀͂̓̉͋̍̿͘⌘̴̡̛̭̉̆̽̍̑̓̎͊̅͗̿͊̇̀̋̋͂́̈́́͗̏̅͆̈̇͊̈̔̓̿̋͑͋̀̊̈́͗̓͌̑̓̑͠͠͝͝͝͝︎̸̡̛̛͎͓͔͉͉̰̮̹̜̣̥̳̠̭̫̳̺͋̿̂̋̒̅̄̊̿̎̔́͛̄͗̀̽̑́̈́͑̔͌̑̇̈́͛͋̀́̈̐́̐̆͊̇̆͐̀̚̚͘ͅͅ⌘̷̨̡̨̨̛̛͉̪̭̳̟̜̭̟̻̹̫͆̈̍̾̍̀̂̃̌͑̆͑͆͐̓̄́̐͊̽̚͜͜͜͠͝︎̵̢̡̭͈̦͖̞̞̪̼̩̖̞̬͕̮͔͈̼̟̻̹̟́̽͛̀͋͝͝ͅ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No real relation between them just some random thing I would have done in the game :)

 

[Lila Feuer]

Reduce Lost Soul HP to 60 (Imp strength).

Pistol does 1-8 damage (similarly copy to Zombieman so it can do a little more damage so as to not be a complete pushover).

Swap bullet and cell values (more available bullets to encourage Chaingun use, less cells to carry to reduce BFG spamming).

Buff Spiderdemon HP to 5000 and implement its unused magic attack.

[Maes]

35 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

Reduce Lost Soul HP to 60 (Imp strength).

Pistol does 1-8 damage (similarly copy to Zombieman so it can do a little more damage so as to not be a complete pushover).

 

But Pistol can do 3d5 damange and Zombieman can do 5d3 damage...wouldn't that be a downgrade in both cases?

[doorlock]

Reduce ammo reserves (especially rockets)

make the chaingun 2x faster but with a 20 gametic refire delay

nerf the BFG or replace it entirely (maybe a mancubus cannon instead)

give all weapons cool secondary fires

[_bruce_]

Re-/implement HiColor mode.

As I "understood" it was relying on the Sierra HiColorDAC's existence(and Tseng BIOS suppport) so it seems plausible why it was dropped.

 

Definitely agree with the gib-bage option of certain monsters. Cut due to time constraints I would say. Nonetheless it took me some time to recognize that the Chaingunner does indeed have a proper gib sequence with custom gfx.

 

Btw, if somebody fancies raised limits(without a rude hack and) via command line in DOS, then you may try the attached file which is little modification of Alexey's PCDoomV2.

 

DoomV2_Extended.7z

[Maes]

48 minutes ago, _bruce_ said:

Re-/implement HiColor mode.

As I "understood" it was relying on the Sierra HiColorDAC's existence(and Tseng BIOS suppport) so it seems plausible why it was dropped.

 

 

Well, not only that, but for all of its sophistication, it wasn't much of a visual upgrade, when coupled with graphical resources that still were palettized/8-bit.

 

Even if we disregard the fact that it probably halved the horizontal resolution (similar to low detail mode),  in some circumstances it could be a visual downgrade, as there were now less bits per color channel (5, 6 if it was 565 RGB), and color banding would be even more noticeable.

 

Plus, it would not allow the relatively cheap (computationally speaking) implementation of palette effects. In Mocha Doom I managed to preserve them by having a series of precalculated/pre-tinted colormaps and simply swapping them around, but that required a clear CPU/memory tradeoff which just wouldn't be acceptable back in 1993/1994.

[snapshot]

id make the pistol a tap to shoot, make it fire slightly faster and make it more accurate, lower lost souls hp, and get rid of barons because theyre just hellknights but more bulletspongy.

[Maes]

IMO such threads are only meaningful if you place some constraints or modus operandi to the changes made.  A "patch" makes me thing of a change to the exe that could not be achieved by any other way, but also won't extend to new feature territory, to the extent that remaking the maps and rebalancing the gameplay would be needed.

 

E.g. stuff like monster HP or weapon firing rate, which could very well be achieved with DEHACKED back in the day, should be out. Mapping errors fixes/changes are also not changes to the exe at all so shouldn't count either. Gameplay rebalancing changes like removing Barons also are far beyond the scope of a patch, as it would require replacing them with something else and rebalancing the maps that use them (E1M8 just wouldn't be the same with two Hell Knights now, would it?).

 

Adding stuff like scripting, crouching/jumping mechanics etc. also would require revisiting the entire gameplay and the maps themselves, so also out.

 

Stuff like e.g. extending static limits, preserving targets in savegames, fixing known bugs, rebalancing the RNG or specific attack/action functions, adding the SSG in Ultimate Doom (only E4), etc. would be more in the right ballpark.

[Mayomancer]

I guess limit removal, treat the worse bugs, QoL... basically make it Crispy Doom

[Andromeda]

Increase the ammo limits tenfold - all that unused ammo needs a home :)