Why Aren't Nam And Redneck Rampage Mentioned?

[Pirx]

ouch. bug rampage.

[Maximum Matt]

Okay, my scattered memories of RR....

• The first thing you see on level one is a pickup truck running over a bunch of chickens (!!!!!!!) and the truck is speeding around in a big loop endlessly
• You have to hit your friend with a crowbar to end the level
• Drinking moonshine doesn't give you any powerup (AFAIR), it just makes your head turn at a 90 degree angle for a bit
• I remember the aliens were creepy
• The little dogs were way overpowered
• The mosquitos were annoying (so yeah, yay for realism)
• You could fight a tornado at one point
• There was like a circular saw launcher that you could get and the projectiles would bounce around the room like that gun in Unreal Tournament
• The bowling alley was cool
• The final level was like an alien abduction, with the UFO flying around above you

Aaaaaaand that's it.  That's all my memories.  Now I'm gonna look this sucker up

[Spooner5020]

On 6/29/2020 at 9:55 AM, mattjoes said:

Cool, I had no idea! It's just a fun concept for a movie. Do you know where I can read more about that cancelled project?

There really wasn’t much info on it when I read about it. I don’t even think it got as far as casting. 
 

https://www.shacknews.com/article/1669/redneck-rampage-the-movie

Edited July 4, 2020 by Spooner5020

[cybdmn]

On 7/1/2020 at 4:38 AM, Maximum Matt said:

Okay, my scattered memories of RR....

• The first thing you see on level one is a pickup truck running over a bunch of chickens (!!!!!!!) and the truck is speeding around in a big loop endlessly
• You have to hit your friend with a crowbar to end the level
• Drinking moonshine doesn't give you any powerup (AFAIR), it just makes your head turn at a 90 degree angle for a bit
• I remember the aliens were creepy
• The little dogs were way overpowered
• The mosquitos were annoying (so yeah, yay for realism)
• You could fight a tornado at one point
• There was like a circular saw launcher that you could get and the projectiles would bounce around the room like that gun in Unreal Tournament
• The bowling alley was cool
• The final level was like an alien abduction, with the UFO flying around above you

Aaaaaaand that's it.  That's all my memories.  Now I'm gonna look this sucker up

 

 

How could you forget the alien tit gun?

[mattjoes]

On 7/4/2020 at 9:07 AM, Spooner5020 said:

There really wasn’t much info on it when I read about it. I don’t even think it got as far as casting. 
 

https://www.shacknews.com/article/1669/redneck-rampage-the-movie

Thank you. The link in that Shacknews page took me to the wrong article in Variety, but I found the correct one:

 

https://variety.com/1999/film/news/sony-goes-on-a-rampage-1117755810/

Very interesting.

[P41R47]

I vastly enjoyed Redneck Rampage more than Duke3D

Controversial was the flaming attraction for duke, and i didn't goes beyond some nude chicks.

 

Instead on RR the mappers played it all for fun:
You enter a well just to exit from a toilet, where a ugly shotgun fattso was defecating.

Some mentioned that there is no armor, but there is, you gotta get drunk my boy, and that makes you more resistent to damage, but don't get too drunk or you will faint to the ground, so take a pee whenever you can. Combat the drunkness also with the potato chips and food lying around, but again, don't eat too much or you will become a gas zeppeling alerting all the enemies around with all your furious farting and some berps.

And the best feature, just whack your idiot brother with th steel bar. Ah, charming! Nothing better than fraternal violence.

There are also a good amount of controvertial things, like cursing non stop, references to incest, and a lot more.

And now that i know that our Sverre worked on RR i love it more than before.

 

EDIT: I forget another great point: THE MUSIC!!!
HECK!!! That is a great soundtrack.
The Beat Farmers, Reverend Horton Heat, Cement Pond and Mojo Nixon made for an excellent compilation!
This psychobillies were the introduction to far more interesting stuff like Those Poor Bastards (They need a complete game based on them, not just a great mapset like Preacher is)

Edited July 6, 2020 by P41R47

[Chip]

Actually, the only FPS games I knew of from the 90s before I became a member on Doomworld were Duke Nukem 3D, DOOM (of course), Wolfenstein 3D, Quake, Goldeneye 007, Tom Clancy Rainbow 6, Jumping flash (don't know if that is considered FPS, but to me, it is) and Half-life (never played Half-Life, though, wish it was on PS4). those are actually a lot of games, but still, there is RR, Nam, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Chex Quest, Hexen, Heretic, Strife, and so much more than I thought. Amazing! 

[Biodegradable]

I'm just waiting to see if Civvie11 makes a video on Redneck Rampage. He's a big reason why I've returned to a lot of the shooters of my childhood and explored other similar games. I understand RR is scuffed as fuck, but I'd be curious to know what he thinks of it. He hasn't steered me wrong in regards to games he think are rough around the edges, but otherwise good fun.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Biodegradable

[BigBoy91]

This thread inspired me. I went and bought NAM and WWII: GI and started playing them using Rednukem. I can definitely see why no one talks about these. Lacking in polish, and they're a chore to play even on the easiest setting. Redneck Rampage is pretty much ass too, but I can still have a little bit of fun with it.

[seed]

I've also played through the RR games recently, and one short rant to sum up my opinion on them: Utterly abysmal games, tasteless, with gross imagery everywhere, dumb fart "jokes" and burping, underwhelming combat, poor highlighting of key zones in the maps and giving the player clues, excessive backtracking, bad key placement (I don't even care about their size), everything just blends together and creates a lack of distinction in the environment, hideously unlikable characters, Leonard's friend is obnoxious to say the least while also acting as an exit and having to hit him with the crowbar to end the level - killing him, purposefully or not results in mission failure -, overpowered enemies such as the dogs, useless ones like the mosquitos, a dumb drunk mechanic that rarely ever serves any kind of purpose, and the list goes on.

 

The instrumental side of the soundtrack is somewhat good and I actually like the Vixen song, until you hear the lyrics in most of them, which are vomit inducing just like everything else in these titles... but the sound design is actually okay. Towards the end they have some interesting maps, such as an asylum of sorts which reminds me of Bloodlines TC Beta for Blood and a bowling alley, but that's about it.

 

How this pathetic piece of trash was considered a better game than SW by some media outlets and folks at the time will forever be a mystery to me, what a travesty. Its sole quality is the '90s HD style, but ruined by everything else that plagues these games, if other people enjoy these games, fine by me, but that doesn't change my opinion in the slightest, of them being worthless junk.

Edited August 23, 2020 by seed

[Redneckerz]

2 hours ago, seed said:

I've also played through the RR games recently, and one short rant to sum up my opinion on them: Utterly abysmal games, tasteless, with gross imagery everywhere, dumb fart "jokes" and burping, underwhelming combat, poor highlighting of key zones in the maps and giving the player clues, excessive backtracking, bad key placement (I don't even care about their size), everything just blends together and creates a lack of distinction in the environment, and hideously unlikable characters, Leonard's friend is obnoxious to say the least.

You could say it was made by a bunch of Rednecks.

2 hours ago, seed said:

How this pathetic piece of trash was considered a better game than SW by some media outlets and folks at the time will forever be a mystery to me, what a travesty.

Map design was a key pointer, for one. Xatrix did some interesting stuff with the Build tech in that regard.

 

I'd place RR in a corner of its own. I feel Postal 2 extended upon the feeling RR was trying to convey, this Lebowski kind of bloke that gives no shits about his surroundings, but P2 also brought in some innovation of its own. There are similarities though, the getting drunk mechanic of RR went into Postal 2 (and DNF). In RR, getting drunk actually affected you, which is a pretty neat thing, to say the least.

2 hours ago, seed said:

 

Its sole quality is the '90s HD style, if other people enjoy these games, fine by me, but that doesn't change my opinion in the slightest, of them being worthless junk.

Worthless Junk is stuff like Raising Dead, or Fortress of Radiaki, not Redneck Rampage.* Don't believe me?

 

^{*That does not mean Raising Dead is beyond hilarious though. Axes with limited uses, every enemy turns into a mushroom that also hurts you...}

[Dark Pulse]

If you thought Redneck Rampage was bad, get a hold of Country Justice.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Dark Pulse : It does help to get the damn name of the game right. It was RIGHT THERE in the video title, you yutz.

[Graf Zahl]

On 8/23/2020 at 10:32 AM, seed said:

I've also played through the RR games recently, and one short rant to sum up my opinion on them: Utterly abysmal games, tasteless, with gross imagery everywhere, dumb fart "jokes" and burping, underwhelming combat, poor highlighting of key zones in the maps and giving the player clues, excessive backtracking, bad key placement (I don't even care about their size), everything just blends together and creates a lack of distinction in the environment, hideously unlikable characters, Leonard's friend is obnoxious to say the least while also acting as an exit and having to hit him with the crowbar to end the level - killing him, purposefully or not results in mission failure -, overpowered enemies such as the dogs, useless ones like the mosquitos, a dumb drunk mechanic that rarely ever serves any kind of purpose, and the list goes on.

 

You clearly don't get the game. I guess you went in with the intent not to like it, didn't you? :P

The dogs may be overpowered, but I can't shake off the feeling it was done on purpose, because if you are a Redneck, you gotta have a bigger, meaner dog than regular people, don't you? :D

 

 

 

On 8/23/2020 at 10:32 AM, seed said:

How this pathetic piece of trash was considered a better game than SW by some media outlets and folks at the time will forever be a mystery to me, what a travesty. Its sole quality is the '90s HD style, but ruined by everything else that plagues these games, if other people enjoy these games, fine by me, but that doesn't change my opinion in the slightest, of them being worthless junk. 

 

Because if you get over the tastelessness of the content, you got some good looking levels desgined by people who know their job. The combat isn't really any worse than Duke, actually.  Also, if you want to talk "worthless junk", please play NAM and WW2GI first - those are really bad!

 

[seed]

22 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

You clearly don't get the game. I guess you went in with the intent not to like it, didn't you? :P

The dogs may be overpowered, but I can't shake off the feeling it was done on purpose, because if you are a Redneck, you gotta have a bigger, meaner dog than regular people, don't you? :D

 

Because if you get over the tastelessness of the content, you got some good looking levels desgined by people who know their job. The combat isn't really any worse than Duke, actually.  Also, if you want to talk "worthless junk", please play NAM and WW2GI first - those are really bad!

 

I knew it was only a matter of time before you showed up, I've been waiting for you.

 

...to tell you we're not having this conversation.

[Graf Zahl]

yeah, whatever. Let's just agree that our views of this game are simply not compatible. But they are absolutely and most definitely not "worthless junk" - that part I strongly take exception with.

 

[[McD] James]

4 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

You clearly don't get the game. I guess you went in with the intent not to like it, didn't you? :P

The dogs may be overpowered, but I can't shake off the feeling it was done on purpose, because if you are a Redneck, you gotta have a bigger, meaner dog than regular people, don't you? :D

 

 

 

 

Because if you get over the tastelessness of the content, you got some good looking levels desgined by people who know their job. The combat isn't really any worse than Duke, actually.  Also, if you want to talk "worthless junk", please play NAM and WW2GI first - those are really bad!

 

 

Well, I went into the game with the expectation that I'd enjoy it, but I'm largely in agreement with seed. And it's not so much that the enemies felt overpowered, but more so that the weapons just felt underpowered.

 

I suppose the humour is an acquired taste, but I don't see how anyone can defend the hideous graphics, garbage level design, bugs, and wonky hit detection. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Ajora

[Graf Zahl]

All the wonkiness is directly inherited from Duke 3D, so you may only complain if you include Duke as well.

 

[Dark Pulse]

Build-engine games tend to have some pretty notorious levels of jank. It's just part of the territory.

 

The sad part is that it's not really Ken Silverman's fault. Guy is (was?) a mad lad. But well, not much he can do about it when there's other people taking and modding it, and it being the 90s and not exactly being able to fire up Slack or whatever.

 

At this point not much can be done about it. If you want to have the games play "right," you've got to keep the cruft. And whether one personally likes or dislikes a game should have no bearing on them being "good" or not. Whether you enjoy them despite their flaws is.

[DNSKILL5]

The RR games just don't do it for me. I don't like the characters, including the main character(s). I'm from the south (that south, not South America), and the humor doesn't offend me or anything, it just feels very lame and Ernest-movie like in a way, but even more poorly executed. Not my thing. They should've made the main character a psycho like Ed Gein. That would've at least been interesting instead of just some stereotypical redneck. The enemies aren't interesting. Aliens and random people/animals? C'mon. They could've at least made it giant bugs or something different than that. Some of the level design is actually quite good in terms of how they made some of the areas really feel like being in the middle of nowhere, but it still all feels poorly executed. The recent source port Rednukem, I actually think that's a great DN3D port, even plays the demo files, but I have no interest in using it for RR. I didn't play the others besides the hunting one, and that one REALLY SUCKS, especially if you have actually gone hunting before... there's no comparison and I really wonder why they made that one to begin with.. I think there are those that do enjoy these and power to them.

 

RR doesn't seem to be as forgotten, especially considering that Interplay was involved. 

 

NAM and WWII GI have a very interesting concept on paper, but I think the background work behind WWII GI is more significant and interesting than the game itself, as I'm pretty sure WWII GI is what sparked the path to Eduke32, but I could be remembering wrong. They feel more like TCs you'd download in the 90s, which I'm pretty sure that's how NAM started in the first place. I would say they tried to make it feel like "real combat", where it is more important to be aware of enemy placement than usual, but it was not done very well, and I don't think you need real life combat experience to figure that out lol.

 

These are forgotten because they didn't sell well, and Walmart sold Nam under a different title Napalm, which probably just confused people back then. 

[[McD] James]

29 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

All the wonkiness is directly inherited from Duke 3D, so you may only complain if you include Duke as well.

 

Duke 3D is one of the greatest games ever made. You'll hear zero complaints about that game from me.

[Gez]

Duke 3D is one of the greatest games ever slapdashed haphazardly.

 

You know why Duke is all outta gum? It's cuz it was all spent on holding the engine parts together. The game's great, but it's full of weird jank.

[DNSKILL5]

6 minutes ago, Ajora said:

 

Duke 3D is one of the greatest games ever made. You'll hear zero complaints about that game from me.

 

I agree with you there that it's a great game but I also agree with Gez. The game never had a sense of direction in its design. Compare the prototypes of Duke 3D to the prototypes of Blood and there is a clear focus with Blood, whereas with Duke 3D and even SW it seems they couldn't decide what they wanted. I think it can be argued this is one of the many reasons why DNF turned out the way it did in development hell.

 

In my opinion it seems to me that the biggest issue people have here with Duke 3D and other build games aren't the games themselves but the process of making maps or mods isn't as straight forward as it is for Doom. This is something I noticed with Wolfenstein 3D as well prior to the introduction of ECWolf/LZWolf. EC/LZWolf has been well received by fans of Doom for how simple it makes modding the game compared to DOS/SDL. I feel that Raze may eventually turn out to be a similar solution for BUILD, but looking at how the actual Wolf 3D community feels about ECWolf compared to the rest of society... there could be a divide between Raze modders and "purist" BUILD modders much like there is between DOS/SDL modders and ECWolf modders, but I really hope everyone can learn to accept other platforms or make their projects work on multiple platforms like they've been able to do with Doom for so long now. Wolf 3D wasn't really built to be edited by the user so it has definitely come a long way due to Wolf 3D fans and then ECWolf made it even more accessible, but Duke 3D was always open for editing since the beginning, I just feel that editing/modding for Duke has not evolved sufficiently enough over time for future generations to take the lead like it has with Doom. There is a massive decline in user content for DN3D compared to 10-20 years ago, but Doom still goes strong and I don't think there has ever been a significant decline in activity, not only in modding activities but in the community as a whole as well. 

[Lila Feuer]

Redneck Rampage's environments are the best thing about the game really, I like the "realistic" look of the textures and overall high-res nature they were going for, still looks good to this day. The weapons are fine, the enemies are kinda repetitive but make sense, I like how the aliens themselves are actually really dangerous to offset from the cloned townsfolk (just wish there were more of 'em, the folk I mean). Hot tip regarding drunkenness, use the statbar and monitor your alcohol and gut meters, if you get them both in the green it activates the game's armor which allows you to take more damage and thus take more risks.

[Graf Zahl]

35 minutes ago, Gerolf said:

I feel that Raze may eventually turn out to be a similar solution for BUILD, but looking at how the actual Wolf 3D community feels about ECWolf compared to the rest of society... there could be a divide between Raze modders and "purist" BUILD modders much like there is between DOS/SDL modders and ECWolf modders, but I really hope everyone can learn to accept other platforms or make their projects work on multiple platforms like they've been able to do with Doom for so long now.

 

The thing is, making these games more moddable isn't that easy. The only way I see is to go the radical route and develop an UDMF-like format for them that could be edited with UDB or other modern Doom editors. The current Build tools are just not up to the task and there's zero momentum to create better ones.

 

 

35 minutes ago, Gerolf said:

Wolf 3D wasn't really built to be edited by the user so it has definitely come a long way due to Wolf 3D fans and then ECWolf made it even more accessible, but Duke 3D was always open for editing since the beginning, I just feel that editing/modding for Duke has not evolved sufficiently enough over time for future generations to take the lead like it has with Doom. There is a massive decline in user content for DN3D compared to 10-20 years ago, but Doom still goes strong and I don't think there has ever been a significant decline in activity, not only in modding activities but in the community as a whole as well. 

 

Yeah, and I think it can be squarely blamed on the tools. But what's ironic is that Blood content seems to be better, despite even worse tools but the quantity is still low. And the less said about the other games, the better.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Gerolf said:

I agree with you there that it's a great game but I also agree with Gez. The game never had a sense of direction in its design. Compare the prototypes of Duke 3D to the prototypes of Blood and there is a clear focus with Blood, whereas with Duke 3D and even SW it seems they couldn't decide what they wanted. I think it can be argued this is one of the many reasons why DNF turned out the way it did in development hell.

 

That's not really the issue. Duke's main problem is that the game physics are broken as hell, but looking at the code gives a good answer why that is. The entire code is some atrocious spaghetti horror show that's nearly impossible to follow. Obviously the original developers were eventually facing the same problem.

The CON language they added also plays a large factor because it is extremely primitive and hideously unexpressive which makes it very hard to pull off more complex stuff and as a result the scripts are full of bugs that can't be fixed in the engine.

 

 

[seed]

18 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

But what's ironic is that Blood content seems to be better, despite even worse tools but the quantity is still low.

 

That's probably because Blood's modding base was just more determined to deliver good episodic adventures. Duke may have had slightly better tools, but a tool is a means to an end, and without skill and vision it's useless.

 

It's truly ironic how 24 years later the base game (Duke) is still vastly superior to the mods its seen, and slightly pathetic too...

[Redneckerz]

4 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

yeah, whatever. Let's just agree that our views of this game are simply not compatible. But they are absolutely and most definitely not "worthless junk" - that part I strongly take exception with.

The only other redneck game that may bring a smile upon your faces is this*:

 

 

^{*And that's only because interactive versions of your avatar play in it. :P}

1 hour ago, Ajora said:

 

Duke 3D is one of the greatest games ever made. You'll hear zero complaints about that game from me.

Does that also factor in the Total Meltdown version for PSX?

[Redneckerz]

2 minutes ago, seed said:

It's truly ironic how 24 years later the base game (Duke) is still vastly superior to the mods its seen, and slightly pathetic too...

DP, but have to disagree here. Barring WGRealms, The AMC Team expands so incredibly much on the basis in its own amateurish ways that i'd say its easily above the Duke 3D experience. Its not really the same game anymore.

 

 

[seed]

1 minute ago, Redneckerz said:

DP, but have to disagree here. Barring WGRealms, The AMC Team expands so incredibly much on the basis in its own amateurish ways that i'd say its easily above the Duke 3D experience. Its not really the same game anymore.

 

But you see the irony, and yet deny it.

 

Because those are pretty much the only Duke mods that are better than the base game that I could ever find, and trust me I've played literally dozens of them, enough to have a more-or-less solid idea.

[Graf Zahl]

12 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

^{*And that's only because interactive versions of your avatar play in it. :P}

 

 

Only distant relatives. :D

The avatar is from this:

 

 

and only because I did the iOS and Android ports of that game.

 

[Dark Pulse]

Well shit, now I'm reminded of the UT2004 custom map KillBillyBarn.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

 

(Though that's definitely pretty heavily modded. UT2k3 HUD? UT2004RPG mutator? Custom model? Third-person Gears-style camera? UT3 weapon/ammo/health models? Yeah...)