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FREEDOM FIGHTER

TC LEVELS

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Hi, im making a tc about the palestinian intifada(uprising), anyway, i need someone to make the levels, anyone can help
the levels are of the style of "mouth of war" "marines" levels, or the destroyed towns levels of twilight warrior, the TC run with legacy.....any help is good

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I would also strongly advise not asking for people to do things for your projects because everyone is already working on something.

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Red Storm Entertainment successfully incorporates politics into their games, whether current/real politics or not. Go for it.

What Archville said was quite true, though.

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I'm just thinking about Nicks post. People seem to get very upset when people work politics into doom projects, epically around the whole Palestine and Israel thing...

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Heh, who remembers when the Coop Certification Laboratory tried to organize that contribution-based "Evil Chemistry" megawad that was supposed to have levels where you invade terrorist bunkers?

Now THAT was stupid.
The turnout wasn't very good either.

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well, im working in this since long time ago and im not going to stop now, i know some people could be mad about the TC, but the kind of people who can be mad is just the kind of people i really dont care about their opinion, anyway, i know people is busy but well...i need help so, why didnt try?, if someone want to help, good, if no, thanks anyway

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Uh... just out of curiosity... are you strongly leaning toward the Palestinian side, as far as who is just in their cause? THAT is where there could be a problem, because people start interpreting it as fanaticism, extremism, racism against the Jews, etc. Even if you leaned all the way to the other side, you'd still be wrong in half of the world's eyes.

People will probably think that the point of the TC is "Hey, let's go kill some Israelis." That's where the problem is, people will assume it's a matter of hatred. I'm not clear on your stance on the issue, but if "Hey let's go kill some Israelis" is your opinion, then I've got a big "Fuck you." to give you, and I'm sure someone around here would like to give you come c0ff33...

For now, though, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

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my philosophy is far from being "kill some israelies" im of a libanese family, i know a lot of the conflict both side, in fact i live for that, i know what the palestinian people is suffering very well, i know no every israelie is guilty, and i dont think every palestinian is a "good guy",but israels army is commiting a genocide, a genocide that no ones can ignore, im not against jews, im against zionism, and i am becose i think is a racist, expansionist and imperialist ideology, with a lot of power, i have jews friends and i know the solution isnt kill all israleies, now they there(tought the creation of israel was ilegal) and both peoples musty learn to live togehter....but that will never happen if israel continous the humilliatons and killings...they are creating pooverty..and vengance attacks, suicide bombers are rong but i understand that they feel is the only way....is hard to be there...anyway i hope to be clear..sorry for my bad english!....i think palestinian resistance against the invading army is just, israel must learn and leave expansionist and racial ideas behind

sorry again for my english

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Violence begets violence, and responding that that begotten violence with more violence just imbalances things further. The only freedom fighter ever to fight the right way was Ghandi. That's not to say that one should stand by and just get killed... but it's quite obvious that it's a war of opinion, too. The Palestinians will *never* appear to be just if the extremists are allowed to continue committing attrocities, because those few acting in the name of freedom for Palestine bring what people think of those individuals down on the whole country.

But it's good to hear that you aren't an extremist.

As far as bad English goes, don't worry about it. The first language of many of the people who post here is not English, so we learn to just get the general idea of what they're saying.

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I think Doom is entirely the wrong medium for political statements of any type. I'd rank this alongside a "High School Doom" idea in terms of inappropriateness.

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Political content is inevitable, even DOOM has it, sort of, with the UAC business and the way the doomguy is sent to Mars. I guess that the question is similar to the one in art and movies, where realism, politics and moral content tend to somehow play a part but if they are forced into the product they tend to damage it. That is, a game's main aim is to be fun, if you give it another aim, that almost inevitably gets in the way one way or another.

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FREEDOM FIGHTER:
i dont think every palestinian is a "good guy",but israels army is commiting a genocide, a genocide that no ones can ignore, im not against jews, im against zionism, and i am becose i think is a racist, expansionist and imperialist ideology, with a lot of power, i have jews friends and i know the solution isnt kill all israleies, now they there(tought the creation of israel was ilegal) and both peoples musty learn to live togehter....but that will never happen if israel continous the humilliatons and killings...they are creating pooverty..and vengance attacks, suicide bombers are rong but i understand that they feel is the only way....is hard to be there...
i think palestinian resistance against the invading army is just, israel must learn and leave expansionist and racial ideas behind...

YOU GO BRO!

Ultraviolet:
Violence begets violence, and responding that that begotten violence with more violence just imbalances things further. The only freedom fighter ever to fight the right way was Ghandi. That's not to say that one should stand by and just get killed... but it's quite obvious that it's a war of opinion, too. The Palestinians will *never* appear to be just if the extremists are allowed to continue committing attrocities, because those few acting in the name of freedom for Palestine bring what people think of those individuals down on the whole country.

YOU GO BRO!

I gave Nick the advice NOT to make a TC about Isreali commando`s so it would be only fair to tell you; IMO it`s not a good idea to make a TC about something so complex and emotionally loaded.
If you want to help the Palestinians, I don`t think a TC will do much good... Sure it`ll sent out a message; but you wouldnt be able to spread your argumentations along with them. The whole Middle East 'conflict' is very complex and can`t be summarized whithin the limits of a Doom TC...

If you want to bring the message to the doomers just hang out in the Religion & Politics section...

Still if you want to make an Intifada TC, no-one`s gonna stop ya.

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Grazza said:

I think Doom is entirely the wrong medium for political statements of any type. I'd rank this alongside a "High School Doom" idea in terms of inappropriateness.


I always thought a High School Doom was appropriate, as long as you don't go overboard. (IE actually making graphics based on your classmates and such.) You see, I believe that as long as you DON'T put in real people in a real place, then it's appropriate. Wall textures and such don't count though. But if you add in yourself like a cameo or something, then it's not that bad. Basically, you can add in as many new wall textures and flats to make an exact replica of your school as long as you DON'T add in real people. (Not including you, the wad author.)

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Hi, I'm Nick Perrin and you may have heard most
of these people talking about my TC, which used
to be based on the Israeli Special Forces. Many
people complained and with good reason, and I
think myself that there is too much controversy
over that subject, and games/TCs probably shouldn't
be based on real-life situations andyway. Of course,
the best thing to do, that I am doing, is keeping the mod
but changing the story. I was actually able to come up
with something pretty good, and it won't take away from
the fun of the TC.

No one's going to stop you from making this TC, but just
for the sake of it you may wish to change the theme. I don't
want to force you into anything, as it may turn out to be a
really good TC, so just do what you wish.

And that's my 2c.

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Lizardcommando said:

I always thought a High School Doom was appropriate, as long as you don't go overboard. (IE actually making graphics based on your classmates and such.) You see, I believe that as long as you DON'T put in real people in a real place, then it's appropriate.


I don't see the issue in that either, as long as you don't shoot them or whatever in real life afterward.

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I was in part thinking of how the media might react. You could imagine some muck-raking journalist going berserk over how Doom is used to "prepare Palestinians for battle" in just the same way they might claim it is used to "practice shooting up a high school".

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Hahaha!!!! Doom preparing kids to do battle in schoolgrounds! HA!!! ...This does bring up a map I made a month or two ago. I tried to make my high school and all I gotta say about it is that there is no way I'd be able to prepare myself for some "Campus Carnage(C)" with such a poorly built version of my school. It was made way outta proportion. Everything was too big, too shitty looking (although the shitty looking part is somewhat true :p), some of the buildings were missing, and I couldn't even go in any of the buldings. My point is, I don't think Doom will train kids to kill everyone at school, unless you're really good at making levels and decide to make an almost exact replica of your own school, but I'm guessing that's a whole different story...

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This is why all my Doom projects are just monster-filled levels. Shoot demons, don't ask questions. =P

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Lizardcommando said:

My point is, I don't think Doom will train kids to kill everyone at school

No, of course it won't. It's the perception of it that I'm talking about. If there's another Columbine-type incident, who knows what sort of shitstorm will be whipped up.

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FREEDOM FIGHTER said:

sorry again for my english

It's ok; nobody seems to be paying attention to spelling here (unless they're in an argument).

Anyway, this site helps me. :-]

BTW, since we're on the subject:
"armys of evil making war against the weaks, are leading the world to destruction, the weaks will raise..the empire will fall"

Shouldn't "raise" be "rise" ;-P

more talk like that
:-)

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Nanami said:
This is why all my Doom projects are just monster-filled levels. Shoot demons, don't ask questions. =P


True dat... I find it ironic that, of all people, it is the conservative Christians who find blowing the crap out of hell spawn offensive. You'd think that's the one thing they'd approve of.

Out of interest, where would you rate Nazis as far as controversy goes (ie, a wolfy project)?

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Ct_red_pants said:

Out of interest, where would you rate Nazis as far as controversy goes (ie, a wolfy project)?

Nazis? Praise the lord... and pass the ammo!

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well, thanks for your words, in case you want to know it, i will make the TC, i know is not the best way to help palestinians but thats not the main reason becose i want to make the TC, is just for fun, i help the palestinians doing more usefull things, like making rallys in my country and social services of information about the subject etc...
well, thats all for now, if someowçne want to help just write, and ofcourse i will release the TC when is done

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Lizardcommando said:

Hahaha!!!! Doom preparing kids to do battle in schoolgrounds! HA!!! ...This does bring up a map I made a month or two ago. I tried to make my high school and all I gotta say about it is that there is no way I'd be able to prepare myself for some "Campus Carnage(C)" with such a poorly built version of my school. It was made way outta proportion. Everything was too big, too shitty looking (although the shitty looking part is somewhat true :p), some of the buildings were missing, and I couldn't even go in any of the buldings. My point is, I don't think Doom will train kids to kill everyone at school, unless you're really good at making levels and decide to make an almost exact replica of your own school, but I'm guessing that's a whole different story...


Back when columbine happened, there was a rumor that their was a Doom TC used to train marines to kill....all kinds of stuff like that springs up.

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