Half-Life 3 Was In The Works Years Ago

[A Nobody]

This was revealed recently some days ago. It was going to have randomly generated maps, but with a preset story. So there was indeed going to be a Half-Life 3. The game was in development between 2013 and 2014. Why wasn't it made though? Because the Source 2 game engine was unfinished. I wonder what would have happened if the game did go far in development and got released.

 

https://www.ign.com/articles/half-life-3-left-4-dead-3-details-cancelled-valve

Edited July 13, 2020 by The Strife Commando : Fixed it to "randomly generated maps."

[hybridial]

2 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

It was going to be a rouge-like first person shooter with a preset story.

 

Valve takes the idea of making Half Life always suck seriously, don't they? :P

[A Nobody]

Just now, hybridial said:

 

Valve takes the idea of making Half Life always suck seriously, don't they? :P

You don't like Half-Life?

[hybridial]

Just now, The Strife Commando said:

You don't like Half-Life?

 

No, and I like roguelike game concepts even less. 

[Maggle]

I'm actually not at all mad about this. Rogue-likes suck ass, and this wouldn't have been an exception.

[A Nobody]

8 minutes ago, Maggle said:

I'm actually not at all mad about this. Rogue-likes suck ass, and this wouldn't have been an exception.

Hope I got the description that it was going to be a rouge-like right. It's apparently not only about randomly generated maps, but also about a few other things.

[Maggle]

3 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

Hope I got the description that it was going to be a rouge-like right. It's apparently not only about randomly generated maps, but also about a few other things.

It's technically not really a Rogue-like because actual RLs involve a lot more than just procedural generation and algorithmically placed enemies and objects, but it still would not have been my preferred game. I haven't played a single game with procedural generation that didn't end up being a bunch of random square rooms and uneven terrain just kinda slammed together incoherently. Even if the procedural generation was as sophisticated as something like Minecraft or Shadow Warrior 2, it would still result in every area looking pretty much the same. I prefer levels designed by a human by a long shot, even if it sacrifices "replay value", because a creative touch and attention to detail make areas more lively and memorable, and by extension the game more memorable, and that's something an algorithm can't emulate. (Not yet, anyway)

[Shawny]

I assume It would put together bunch of premade rooms and throw some random elements like barrels and stuff.

This concept is utilized these days in 3D shooters (mostly indies like Ziggurat, Immortal Redneck, Gunfire Reborn etc.) but 2013 - 2014 not so much.

And even thought I do enjoy these games, none of them can beat a good "hand crafted" shooter.

I would like to see what did make in those 2 years, but unless they had really mindblowing ideas and mechanics it would probably flop.

[Bauul]

17 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

Hope I got the description that it was going to be a rouge-like right. It's apparently not only about randomly generated maps, but also about a few other things.

 

Your definition isn't quite right.  Having procedurally generated maps doesn't in itself make a game a roguelike.  While it's a debated term, the core requirements are generally agreed to be randomly generated levels and permadeath.  There was no sign that Half-Life 3 was going to have permadeath.

 

If anything, it seems to be an evolution of the Director system in Left-4-Dead, which already showed procedurally generated enemy encounters can work.  

 

28 minutes ago, Maggle said:

I'm actually not at all mad about this. Rogue-likes FPSs* suck ass, and this wouldn't have been an exception.

 

* Fixed that for you.  Rougelikes in other genres like FTL and Spelunky are absolutely amazing.

[Egg Boy]

Damn, all this rogue like hate, you guys ever play Rogue Legacy or Binding of Isaac? Other than that, I actually really like this idea, though it isn't Rogue-like at all, other than things being random (which is not exclusively a Rogue-like idea). I think the idea was to have normal, crafted sections like we're used to for half life and then to have some sections (such as some building interiors) sort of "remixed" as in they're composed from a series of prebuilt rooms and objectives. I don't think Valve was planning on adding perma death or random item pickups, or anything that is actually related to rogue-likes. That being said, there's a reason this was shelved in favor of Alyx (it was probably because Source 2 wasn't quite up to the task at the time, but I digress).

[A Nobody]

Fixed it. :)

[hybridial]

19 minutes ago, Egg Boy said:

Binding of Isaac?

 

Sucks. :P

 

I know roguelikes suck because the concept actively ruins games I've played that I otherwise thought had excellent aspects. Like Synthetik, Synthetik's combat is amazing, it absolutely shits on something like The Binding of Isaac (which probably would like it anyway) but what is there to it or games like that in terms of meaningful goals? Synthetik doesn't even give you an ending it just loops. And I just completely stop caring before very long. I know Isaac's got more of an actual end goal to reach but playing it is about as fun as undergoing keyhole surgery with out anaesthetic. 

 

I didn't finish Hades once before I felt I'd played it as much as I would ever want to, and that's a shame with all the great work that game has in writing and art and fairly good combat mechanics but playing the same basic rooms over and over with minor variation is just not fun. @Maggle is 100% right, and I think predesigned content has far more replay value than roguelike design, thanks to the fact its worth playing in the first place. 

[Egg Boy]

1 hour ago, hybridial said:

 

Sucks. :P

 

I know roguelikes suck because the concept actively ruins games I've played that I otherwise thought had excellent aspects. Like Synthetik, Synthetik's combat is amazing, it absolutely shits on something like The Binding of Isaac (which probably would like it anyway) but what is there to it or games like that in terms of meaningful goals? Synthetik doesn't even give you an ending it just loops. And I just completely stop caring before very long. I know Isaac's got more of an actual end goal to reach but playing it is about as fun as undergoing keyhole surgery with out anaesthetic. 

 

I didn't finish Hades once before I felt I'd played it as much as I would ever want to, and that's a shame with all the great work that game has in writing and art and fairly good combat mechanics but playing the same basic rooms over and over with minor variation is just not fun. @Maggle is 100% right, and I think predesigned content has far more replay value than roguelike design, thanks to the fact its worth playing in the first place. 

I don't want to put words into your mouth but it appears that you need some sort of ending or goal to enjoy a game, this is completely fine, but I don't share the same viewpoint. You can say something like Minecraft sucks because there are no actual goals, but that undersells the game completely. What makes rogue-likes fun is not the level design, its your character's build, and generally, as you do more and more runs, more options open up to you, increasing the variety in terms of power-ups, rooms, enemies, and bosses. And its all preferential, but I enjoy Isaac's blend of Zelda and bullet hell, I think its pretty unique and fun.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Heh, with how people here react to roguelites, I wonder how you all would react to traditional roguelikes. 

There are actually many games in this genre that are actually fun - roguelikes aren't designed with a proper ending in mind in the 1st place. Many traditional roguelikes have long average playing sessions and with a simplistic goal (e.g Angband has 100-floor dungeon, the ending is basically you retrieve a piece of relic, 10-20 hours), yet people still enjoy playing them.

Edited July 14, 2020 by TheNoob_Gamer

[Maggle]

I didn't even mention the loot system, which is another large part of the reason why I don't like Rogue-Lites/Rogue-Likes much. You can have runs fail spectacularly just because the game gave you nothing but garbage. Binding of Isaac is particularly bad about it because not only are there a bunch of shit weapons/equipment, but there are items that legitimately make you weaker. Some of these games have perma-death, too, so you can permanently lose characters you worked so hard to build up just because the game sent some unkillable Titanium Golem at you when all you had on you was a butter knife. The baffling thing is that people who like these games bring up the god awful loot system as a positive, which I can never understand. 

[Egg Boy]

4 minutes ago, Maggle said:

I didn't even mention the loot system, which is another large part of the reason why I don't like Rogue-Lites/Rogue-Likes much. You can have runs fail spectacularly just because the game gave you nothing but garbage. Binding of Isaac is particularly bad about it because not only are there a bunch of shit weapons/equipment, but there are items that legitimately make you weaker. Some of these games have perma-death, too, so you can permanently lose characters you worked so hard to build up just because the game sent some unkillable Titanium Golem at you when all you had on you was a butter knife. The baffling thing is that people who like these games bring up the god awful loot system as a positive, which I can never understand. 

The thing is, your average run will last less than an hour, and not only that but many items in isaac are trade-offs and the only thing I can think of that is directly negative are the pills which are a gamble anyway (which is the entire point) but you can get an item in a shop that lets you know 100% what every pill will be. Nothing you find in an item room will just drop your stats for no reason. The reason, I would say this is a positive (particularly in isaac) is because the items do a lot of crazy things and can completely shift your playstyle depending on what you end up with. If you were predestined to get whatever items the developers wanted in whatever order they wanted, certain item combos and synergies just wouldn't exist, and would completely deflate the fun in the game. Having to work around a strange item combo, or getting a ridiculously overpowered combination is fun. I won't lie and say there aren't shit runs, but the extremely unique builds you can get in the game far outweigh the possibility of getting shit items (there are also seeds if you want to be guaranteed certain items and stuff, I guess). 

[Mr. Freeze]

The only good rougelike is Doom: The Roguelike and that's because it's a very diet version of a Rougelike. 

[frag enabler]

Diablo/Torchlight, Immortal Redneck and Isaac are all pretty good. IR might be the only case of an FPS roguelite being done right, even considering its numerous flaws. I've also tried Ziggurat, Tower of Guns and Paranautical Activity, but they all sucked hard for many, many reasons.

[hybridial]

8 hours ago, Egg Boy said:

I don't want to put words into your mouth but it appears that you need some sort of ending or goal to enjoy a game, this is completely fine, but I don't share the same viewpoint.

 

This is completely the case. And actually I said Binding of Isaac sucks because I did hate its gameplay, but the reason I just don't like the trend at all is, aside from wanting endings because goals and closures to me are important, but also the use of randomly generated content is something I'm very against because of what I said. Its why I have a specific distaste for the idea of roguelikes whereas things like Minecraft, management sims etc. I don't care for but don't have anything against. 

 

And also on the idea of character builds, well, I don't like Diablo style ARPGs at all either, because I just get bored of them fast. But I love trying different builds in the Baldur's Gate games and I find those highly replayable because of the huge variety of parties you can run, and I like the system where you know what stuff is available to you, you know like the game has these legendary weapons that you probably want to use (and thus these items have value and generate reverence that randomly generated items in a typical ARPG simply cannot) and so you tend to consider if you want to build a character in terms of their equipment to wield those weapons effectively, or otherwise what role you want them to have. I just really like having structure, goals, items that are very important and defined and have their place, so the roguelike, and also looter games just tend to be the complete opposite of what I like and they fail to generate replayability because they lack meaning to me. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by hybridial

[Mr. Freeze]

49 minutes ago, SuperchargedEuthanasiaDiv said:

Diablo/Torchlight, Immortal Redneck and Isaac are all pretty good. IR might be the only case of an FPS roguelite being done right, even considering its numerous flaws. I've also tried Ziggurat, Tower of Guns and Paranautical Activity, but they all sucked hard for many, many reasons.

 

Diablo and Torchlight aren't Rougelikes, they're ARPGs. Diablo started as a Rougelike until a developer accidentally set an action speed value to a small number to speed the game up considerably and what do you know, the game actually became fun to play. 

[Foebane72]

They DID make Half-Life 3, except they called it Hunt Down the Freeman instead.

 

I'm deadly serious, I admire HL1, but NEVER liked the direction HL2 took, so for someone different to come along years later and make a trash game based on HL2, all the better.

 

[Touchdown]

12 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

This was revealed recently some days ago. It was going to have randomly generated maps, but with a preset story. So there was indeed going to be a Half-Life 3.

 

Actually there were at least 6 attempts (or 9? would have to double check) to go back to HL after HL2E2. "Half-Life 3" was just one of them. Also it's not entirely correct that it was supposed to be roguelike. It was supposed to have elements of randomness to add replayablity, not entire randomly generated maps.

 

BTW: The Final Hours of Half-Life: Alyx is worth checking out for everyone interested in Valve/HL related stuff. Articles like that just take bits and pieces from it.

[Foebane72]

What the hell do you mean by "roguelike"?

 

[frag enabler]

1 hour ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

Diablo and Torchlight aren't Rougelikes, they're ARPGs. Diablo started as a Rougelike until a developer accidentally set an action speed value to a small number to speed the game up considerably and what do you know, the game actually became fun to play. 

Disputable. It has all of core features of a Roguelike with the addition of graphics and real-time gameplay.

[snapshot]

2 minutes ago, Foebane72 said:

What the hell do you mean by "roguelike"?

Quick google search: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike#:~:text=Roguelike (or rogue-like),death of the player character.

[Chezza]

I actually like the idea of the random generated maps that shares the same story progress.

 

There's brief moments in Half Life 2 where you can go exploring, which I quite enjoyed. Like when you ride around your air boat and you can optionally stop at docks to look for supplies, coming across a couple zombies. I would enjoy more of those moments, particularly if they're fresh.

 

I think random generation mechanics hasn't innovated much further since Diablo. It's essentially prefab areas with random props, enemies and POIs mixed around. But I think more can be done to make such mechanics interesting and Valve are capable of doing it.

 

**Edit** Is this a Half Life or Rougelike thread?

Edited July 14, 2020 by Chezza

[seed]

Not news to me, but good thing we got The Final Hours of Alyx where they finally shed light on the mystery.

 

The interesting fact here is that all those rumors from years ago saying that HL3 was going to be more open-world and borrow RPG elements were actually true, but it's pathetic how the media manipulated us so much into falling into the "Valve doesn't give a shit about HL and/or HL3 is complete but they have no desire to ever release it", which is what accompanied many of those rumors, and of course, that "it never started development and EP3 is all that was ever made, which also got canned".

 

Ugh, it does stink to see how easy it is to eat up bullshit sometimes, when in reality Valve experimented with HL like fucking crazy all those years. But that being said, their complete and utter lack of transparency is still inexcusable, for over a decade they treated the fanbase like we don't even exist, a simple "we're working on it, but we're not satisfied with what we have on our hands yet, and we're also working on a new engine to power it but it is far from completion, so please stop asking about the game in the foreseeable future" would have been just enough than complete denial and mystery surrounding it.

 

I'm glad it never saw the light of day though. I think the 2013-2014 build changed up the formula too much overall, to the point it wasn't really HL anymore, so I think it's good that they decided to go back to the drawing board and reconsider things. It was also interesting to hear Alyx was originally also waaaay darker and more depressing tonally, apparently even the playtesters and Valve themselves felt it was just too sad and lonely to play. Darkness in HL has always been an odd one, on the one had it seems a lot of people want more of that, including myself, as reflected in the interest for HL2 beta content and beta recreations/re-imaginings, but on the other hand, HL was never an all-doom, all-gloom, ultra serious series, so such a take would probably be too much for it and the audience to handle.

 

Either way, I wonder how the real HL3 will turn out now, since Alyx, Shapiro, and lots of other devs confirmed it's now finally happening.

Edited July 14, 2020 by seed

[A Nobody]

It wasn't going to be rouge-like, everyone. That was a mistake on my part. I've meant to say randomly generated setups.

 

What's Hunt Down The Freeman?

[snapshot]

4 minutes ago, The Strife Commando said:

It wasn't going to be rouge-like, everyone. That was a mistake on my part. I've meant to say randomly generated setups.

 

What's Hunt Down The Freeman?

Quick google search: https://store.steampowered.com/app/723390/Hunt_Down_The_Freeman/

 

Okay I need to stop doing that

[A Nobody]

Okie. :)

 

Why didn't Valve just make HL3 on the normal Source engine instead of relying on Source 2? People would have still loved the game. Personally, I don't think HL3 would have been that great, seeing as how HL2 messed things up with the gameplay. HL3 would have taken a step further in HL2's direction. Even as far as to have gameplay reminiscent of military shooters but with the randomly generated stuff they had planned. Maybe that may not have been the case, but think about it.