Has anyone attempted to make adaptive music mods?

[random_soldier1337]

Nothing particularly complex like in modern doom with every action. Just something like ambient playing with no/dead enemies, action music with active monsters.

[MFG38]

There have been a few attempts at such a thing - this one is perhaps the one with the best implementation. Only problem is that it doesn't come with a sample showcasing how it works, so you're left to figuring it out yourself.

 

Another apparently quite decent one is this.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't played around with either of them myself. Just sharing what I've come across.

[random_soldier1337]

Well no wonder there hasn't been much work on it. Seems like it's too complicated for modding which can often be thankless work.

 

That's why I proposed the simpler scheme where it just dives into combat or exploration/ambient tracks depending on what you are doing. But I'm assuming that can't be done either because if I were to suggest using tracks from modern Doom or something like Quake Champions, both of which definitely have low key versions of their more intense music, they also happen to be copyrighted and using the music available in the classic wads could probably lead to jarring results. And presumably even if someone decided to test with royalty free music, the system probably needs to be made more complex because of how often you jump back and forth between exploration and combat. Otherwise, what I have proposed would probably sound very erratic.

 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk on why I presume dynamic music to not be a big thing in classic Doom modding.

[Doomkid]

I know in Complex Doom (which I think people still play online) the music will change when a legendary enemy shows up, then will go back to the regular level music once they’re dead. Not rocket science, but a cool way to change the mood for a bit. I’ve also played a very small handful of maps over the years where the music changes once you step over a certain line in the map, which could also be used effectively, but I haven’t seen that particular feature used in a map for many years now.

[Doom-X-Machina]

I'm working on a soundtrack to Dissension (so far have 14 completed tracks with 2 more needed) and have played around with some of the ACS functions to change music tracks via script... it's interesting, but it's hard to get right.

It can be rather jarring going from a spooky dark melodic atmospheric piece to an all out thrash-metal style aural assault and then back to gentle melancholy. I'm not sure if I will end up using it in the final WAD but it is definitely something I've considered and toyed with.

[NoXion]

Aren't there free MIDIs available for creators to use in their projects? Surely it would just be a case of finding enough of those, and dividing them up depending on whether they're chilled or action-packed. I'm thinking for a generic dynamic music mod in this case.

Of course the implementation will still be the hard part.

[VanaheimRanger]

6 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I know in Complex Doom (which I think people still play online) the music will change when a legendary enemy shows up, then will go back to the regular level music once they’re dead. Not rocket science, but a cool way to change the mood for a bit. I’ve also played a very small handful of maps over the years where the music changes once you step over a certain line in the map, which could also be used effectively, but I haven’t seen that particular feature used in a map for many years now.

That music got one of my videos copyright flagged on YouTube once, lol.

[cu2]

I am actually trying to make something like this with the system shock soundtrack, one of the first games with dynamic soundtrack.

It's quite tricky the (sloppy) way I am trying to do it with scripts and now I am really curious how those mentioned wads implement it.

[Starduster]

2 hours ago, guitardz said:

That music got one of my videos copyright flagged on YouTube once, lol.

Happens to me quite often, actually (scythe.wad music and whatnot). It doesn't matter tho, cuz I'm not monetized 😎

[random_soldier1337]

11 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I know in Complex Doom (which I think people still play online) the music will change when a legendary enemy shows up, then will go back to the regular level music once they’re dead. Not rocket science, but a cool way to change the mood for a bit. I’ve also played a very small handful of maps over the years where the music changes once you step over a certain line in the map, which could also be used effectively, but I haven’t seen that particular feature used in a map for many years now.

 

Well then I'm surprised it isn't more common. Or that I can't find at least one implementation ready for use. All of them ones I come across are WIP at best.

 

7 hours ago, Doom-X-Machina said:

I'm working on a soundtrack to Dissension (so far have 14 completed tracks with 2 more needed) and have played around with some of the ACS functions to change music tracks via script... it's interesting, but it's hard to get right.

It can be rather jarring going from a spooky dark melodic atmospheric piece to an all out thrash-metal style aural assault and then back to gentle melancholy. I'm not sure if I will end up using it in the final WAD but it is definitely something I've considered and toyed with.

 

Well you can't go from Aubrey Hodges to Mick Gordon just like that. Even in modern Doom the soundtracks that sounded the scariest were one offs used for cutscenes. Other ambient ones were not really meant to be particularly scary seeing that they lacked the subtlety like D64 or PSX Doom OSTs, IMO. Often they'll be lowkey, slower paced versions of the actual combat music or be so try hard edgy with the demonic cult chanting/hymns or demonic wailing/screaming that you won't really feel the difference. An example is that one Doom Eternal OST that's a remix of sinister from classic Doom.

 

5 hours ago, guitardz said:

That music got one of my videos copyright flagged on YouTube once, lol.

 

2 hours ago, Starduster said:

Happens to me quite often, actually (scythe.wad music and whatnot). It doesn't matter tho, cuz I'm not monetized 😎

 

It is very likely. I myself identified at least one notable soundtrack from Dragonball Super being used for one of the bosses and that definitely is copryrighted. And the Japanese, from what I understand, definitely do not like you using their stuff without their permission.

[Doom-X-Machina]

https://www.facebook.com/doomdissension/videos/679583252636800

 

Just posted a soundtrack teaser for Dissension on the Facebook page.

 

[Nevander]

13 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I’ve also played a very small handful of maps over the years where the music changes once you step over a certain line in the map, which could also be used effectively, but I haven’t seen that particular feature used in a map for many years now.

In my recreation of the Doom 64 Titlemap as a level, the music changes to the Doom 64 Title Theme when you enter the portal revealing the logo.

[VanaheimRanger]

9 hours ago, Starduster said:

Happens to me quite often, actually (scythe.wad music and whatnot). It doesn't matter tho, cuz I'm not monetized 😎

 

5 hours ago, random_soldier1337 said:

It is very likely. I myself identified at least one notable soundtrack from Dragonball Super being used for one of the bosses and that definitely is copryrighted. And the Japanese, from what I understand, definitely do not like you using their stuff without their permission.

 

Oh, I get it a lot as well (also, not monetized) but it's usually a bogus claim like "Fringlish (2)" on E1M2 (which I've heard a lot of people get claimed for).  But this was one of the few instances where it was clearly in the right, lol.

[wheresthebeef]

I always wanted to do something like this but never got past just thinking about how I'd personally get it to work.

 

I've used Decorate to make a monster that was idle when spawned, would chase walk the player when activated like other monsters, but if it no longer saw the player after a set amount of seconds it would enter a "search" state where it started running until it found the player again in which it would go back to walking speed.

 

I've thought about adding music on top of it. If no monster is awake its the quietest more somber version of the song. If at least one monster is currently chasing the player the song is the most frantic. And if no monster is chasing the player but they are in their searching state, the song is somewhere inbetween to let you know.

 

I've yet to start messing with ZScript though so I'm sure it'd be easier to implement it there.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

Dunno if this counts, but Valiant's MAP27's music changes when you get to a certain secret.

[random_soldier1337]

On 7/24/2020 at 5:35 PM, guitardz said:

 

 

Oh, I get it a lot as well (also, not monetized) but it's usually a bogus claim like "Fringlish (2)" on E1M2 (which I've heard a lot of people get claimed for).  But this was one of the few instances where it was clearly in the right, lol.

 

And welll then there is that BS YT pulls off.

 

On 7/24/2020 at 7:44 PM, wheresthebeef said:

I always wanted to do something like this but never got past just thinking about how I'd personally get it to work.

 

I've used Decorate to make a monster that was idle when spawned, would chase walk the player when activated like other monsters, but if it no longer saw the player after a set amount of seconds it would enter a "search" state where it started running until it found the player again in which it would go back to walking speed.

 

I've thought about adding music on top of it. If no monster is awake its the quietest more somber version of the song. If at least one monster is currently chasing the player the song is the most frantic. And if no monster is chasing the player but they are in their searching state, the song is somewhere inbetween to let you know.

 

I've yet to start messing with ZScript though so I'm sure it'd be easier to implement it there.

 

Now that you mention it, I have to wonder if part of the reason is because older modding languages were harder to code in as opposed to whatever is used nowadays? And since it probably hasn't been too long since what's used nowadays, I haven't seen anything but WIPs?

 

On 7/25/2020 at 4:28 AM, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Dunno if this counts, but Valiant's MAP27's music changes when you get to a certain secret.

 

Technically yes, IMO. But I meant something like what games around 2000s and afterwards started doing, like what I mentioned in my original example. I think Half Life also changes between ambient and combat music. Modern Doom literally changes it with every action being taken

[Archanhell]

I used a linedef with an Special 80 - Execute Script back on my first mod Entering the Impending Chaos to play music on certain areas, doing this on Map 01, Map 02 and Map03 depending on the situation.