Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
DOOM Anomaly

Hellspawn and Weapon Dee-Lees...

Recommended Posts

Hiya, First of all I would like to say, bear with me here, I'm not fully aware if this topic has been discussed yet or not due to the fact that I am only a spammer, and well, I dont read, much. So ya...beware, or something.

Anyways...

In Doom III how excatly will the hellspawn's weapons be done as ammunition is concerned. Will The former dudes (if they have guns) will they have to reload? Will they be able to just rapidly fire forever without having to stop or reload? Assuming theres a CyberDemon, will he be able to just keep shooting rockets or whatever without taking a breather? Or will there be like some machinery inside it that like makes rockets or imports them or something. Same goes for the Spider Dudes too.

I'm not asking these in which to be answered, I'm just merely wondering these things and wanting to see your thoughts on this topic. So ya, do stuff, or something...

Share this post


Link to post

I'd prefer to see former human troops (possessed soldiers, not the undead fat/skinny zombies) reload their weapons, but as for those of the monsters that have human weapons built into them, I don't really care.

Share this post


Link to post

Hmm..Then its also on the account that the possessed or Zombifyed dudes will have the brains to know how to reload, and fast. Unless they are super-smart super-fast zombies...hmm

Share this post


Link to post

Well, the shotgun guy in DOOM and DOOM II reloads his shotgun after each shot...

Share this post


Link to post
myk said:

Well, the shotgun guy in DOOM and DOOM II reloads his shotgun after each shot...

..Indeed, but I aslo mean like, will he have a box of shells with him and put some in every few shots or will he just mope up to you and beat you senseless with the shotgun, or throw it down and maul you with its hands. Who knows....not I.

Share this post


Link to post
DOOM Anomaly said:

Hmm..Then its also on the account that the possessed or Zombifyed dudes will have the brains to know how to reload, and fast. Unless they are super-smart super-fast zombies...hmm

Well, seeing as the possessed dudes are....possessed, meaning that their brain hasn't been taken out and replaced, again meaning that the possessed troopers can think just as well as real humans, then I'd assume that they should be quite capable of reloading.

They're not living dead, all that has happened to them is that their own soul has been killed or driven out and replaced with an evil soul, but I believe that their brain works fine....unfortunately for all the real humans in the base >:-]

Share this post


Link to post
dsm said:

Well, seeing as the possessed dudes are....possessed, meaning that their brain hasn't been taken out and replaced, again meaning that the possessed troopers can think just as well as real humans, then I'd assume that they should be quite capable of reloading.

They're not living dead, all that has happened to them is that their own soul has been killed or driven out and replaced with an evil soul, but I believe that their brain works fine....unfortunately for all the real humans in the base >:-]

Thats a very good point indeed, but I was just say pretty much in general, and well the stills of the zombie dudes looked like they were brainless dudes, but I can be easily mistaken.

Share this post


Link to post
DOOM Anomaly said:

well the stills of the zombie dudes looked like they were brainless dudes, but I can be easily mistaken.

What stills? I've only seen a still of the tentacle commando, and he sure as Hell doesn't look brainless, just menacing and bad as Hell. The undead zombies, however, look quite braindead - you wouldn't happen to be referring to them? I can't think so.

Share this post


Link to post
dsm said:

The undead zombies, however, look quite braindead - you wouldn't happen to be referring to them? I can't think so.

uhh..heh, I think i am reffering to them. heh.

Share this post


Link to post

All of the enemies in the alpha are pretty brainless. Perhaps their AI simply isn't coded yet, but all they do is come at you and attack when within range.

And yes, there is reloading - you have to reload all of your weapons. Duh. Of course, the monsters, which are what he was talking about, don't - or at any rate, the only thing in the alpha that actually shoots a firearm at you doesn't reload.

Or so I've heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Katarhyne said:

the only thing in the alpha that actually shoots a firearm at you doesn't reload.

Or so I've heard.

Because it fires a belt-fed chaingun - there's less reasons for id to implement reloading for a gun like this. In real life you often attach endless rows of belts to the belt already in your weapon, making it so that the gunner can fire the machinegun weapon for a long time without reloading. I can't see why id would be bothered to give the chaingunner a reloading sequence - Graymatter didn't include reloading for the Venom gun toting venom soldiers in RtCW.... at least I still haven't seen it.

Share this post


Link to post

I have been rewatching the "I smell fear!" scene to get better view of the gatling guns in action. From what I have scene it looks like the ammo just hangs off the gun dragging on the floor. I looks nice not practical in real life and not frame rate efficant but it does keep in line with previous gatlings of the earlier dooms. I would have prefered an ammo backpack like in Predator or detachable ammo boxs like in americas army operations. Considering that they went through the work to model the ammo belt I dont see why they would not include a reloading animation, unless they inteded to make it a disposable weapon.

Share this post


Link to post
Xzyl said:

I have been rewatching the "I smell fear!" scene to get better view of the gatling guns in action. From what I have scene it looks like the ammo just hangs off the gun dragging on the floor. I looks nice not practical in real life and not frame rate efficant but it does keep in line with previous gatlings of the earlier dooms. I would have prefered an ammo backpack like in Predator or detachable ammo boxs like in americas army operations. Considering that they went through the work to model the ammo belt I dont see why they would not include a reloading animation, unless they inteded to make it a disposable weapon.

Because gameplay technically, it doesn't serve much purpose to have them reload it. The belt is only modelled and animated to make the weapon look cool, but since id clearly want to make the Commandos hard to fight, they don't want to hamper them by adding reload animations. Reload animations are really not that important - I believe that the idders are only focussing at what looks cool and what adds to the game.

I can imagine that reloading animations is one of these things that John Carmack whould refer to as a "gimmick". Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against you because I don't think reload animations are cool, I'm just telling you why I think that id hasn't included a reload animation.

Share this post


Link to post

The ogres in Quake had an animation for restarting their chainsaws.

The grunts had reloading animations.

The grunts in Quake II would check their weapons.

...hmm.

It makes quite a bit of gameplay sense for them to reload their weapons, as well. If they empty a belt of ammo at you as fast as that gun SHOULD empty a belt of ammo at you, then having them reload would give a welcome and strategic respite from the otherwise unstoppable hail of gunfire. If they just stop firing for no apparent reason, it does less to heighten suspense of disbelief.

Share this post


Link to post

I can think of another valid reason having reloading on the gatling could be for weapon balancing between it and the assault rifle.

Example,

Assault rifle: Shoots at a rapid rate (600rpm?), holds a moderate amount of ammo (50rds?), reloads very quickly (1.5 sec, guessing), and can carry several reloads (3 or 4 spare mags, guessing).

Gatling Gun: Shoots at an extremly high rate (1200rpm?), holds a large amount ammo (600rds, guessing), reloads very slowly (3-5 sec, guessing), can only carry one reaload (guessing).

Basicly giving you a reason not to dump the assault rifle once you have the gatling. Of course they could also use accuracy differentiate them, but I am hoping for more.

Share this post


Link to post
Katarhyne said:

The ogres in Quake had an animation for restarting their chainsaws.

The grunts had reloading animations.

The grunts in Quake II would check their weapons.

...hmm.

It makes quite a bit of gameplay sense for them to reload their weapons, as well. If they empty a belt of ammo at you as fast as that gun SHOULD empty a belt of ammo at you, then having them reload would give a welcome and strategic respite from the otherwise unstoppable hail of gunfire. If they just stop firing for no apparent reason, it does less to heighten suspense of disbelief.

Well did the Venom gunners in RtCW have a reload animation? Did the gunners in Quake 2 have a reload animation. No. See the pattern?

Gatling Gun: Shoots at an extremly high rate (1200rpm?), holds a large amount ammo (600rds, guessing), reloads very slowly (3-5 sec, guessing), can only carry one reaload (guessing).

1200 rpm is not an extreme firing rate - I opererated a machinegun that fired at a rate of 1200 rpm when I was in the army. 6000 rpm is more like an extreme firing rate, but I guess that's not feasible in a game, so I'll guess that the Doom 3 chaingun has a rate of fire of between 2000-3000 rpm - the Quake 2 chaingun could spend up to 2300 bullets when you fired it repeatedly in a minute, I tested that, and bear in mind that the Q2 chaingun has a spin-up delay where it fires slower before it's "warmed up".

I hope the D3 chaingun has at least a similar rate of fire to the Q2 chaingun, otherwise I'd be a bit dissapointed. 1200 rpm is pathetic for a chaingun in a modern fps imo.
Apart from that, yes I agree with you, there is likely a reason to keep the assault rifle in order to conserve ammunition and because it's generally better against certain enemies.

Share this post


Link to post

1200 rpm is not an extreme firing rate - I opererated a machinegun that fired at a rate of 1200 rpm when I was in the army. 6000 rpm is more like an extreme firing rate...


'Tis true. The Ingram MAC10 in .45 has a firing rate of around 1100 rounds per minute. A lot of kiddies play CS and think that the ROFs in CS are accurate, but they're not. The HL engine's netcode is bad enough, so they halved or in some cases reduced by 2/3rds the cyclic rates on the guns.

...but I guess that's not feasible in a game, so I'll guess that the Doom 3 chaingun has a rate of fire of between 2000-3000 rpm - the Quake 2 chaingun could spend up to 2300 bullets when you fired it repeatedly in a minute...


Actually, it's quite feasible. But, it's not practical. There's a reason no military uses any sort of man-portable multi-barreled cannon; it's simply not necessary. The kind of cyclic rates those sort of weapons achieve is pretty ridiculous.

It's worth noting here, since noone else has, that the term "chaingun" merely refers to the loading mechanism used in certain vehicle-mounted weapons. It's impractical and pointless for a man-portable weapon to use the same mechanism. Most "chainguns" are actually single-barreled, and have rates of fire around 650-800 rounds per minute - no more than your average assault rifle, submachinegun, or machinegun. The weapons we often refer to as "chainguns" should really be called gatling cannons or multi-barrel cannons. Of course, I suppose "chaingun" is much simpler. Just a bit of nitpicking.

Share this post


Link to post
Katarhyne said:

Actually, it's quite feasible. But, it's not practical. There's a reason no military uses any sort of man-portable multi-barreled cannon; it's simply not necessary. The kind of cyclic rates those sort of weapons achieve is pretty ridiculous.

Absolutely true, the firing rate is ridiculous for a soldier because you have to be Arnold Schwarzenegger to be able to carry that thing around let alone fire it. The massive recoil caused by unloading so many bullets in such short a time is enormous and would send even pretty beefy guys flying.

But the idea of multi-barrel weapons is no stupid idea. Having several barrels that spin around prevents the barrels from overheating, contrary to a single-barrelled machinegun which overheats if you fire it too much within a certain time span.

If the military made a lightweight minigun with only a 1200-2000 rpm then I doubt it'd be ridiculous. It could actually prove quite useful, because the gunner could fire longer without having to swap barrels or swap machineguns, while at the same time being able to deliver some serious firepower.

Just a few thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
×