Regret and Despair

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

All of my NoMo demos in the Nomonsters page were missed.

[GoneAway]

Shon: changing your name doesn't lift the ban on your demos being uploaded to dsda. You've simply cheated too many times to be trusted. Feel free to make tases if you want, but we won't be accepting any non-tas demos from you. Of course that's just dsda - you're free to continue posting whatever you want on dw itself.

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

I talked to Dew and he said I wasn't banned and I could post demos,but this was my last chance

 

[GoneAway]

As I said you're completely free to post demos here. But the dsda team won't be uploading them.

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

Is there any compromise I can make to be trusted again?

[GoneAway]

Sorry, but there's absolutely nothing you can do at this point. You've shown little remorse and been caught cheating on too many occasions. A serious question for you though: since you cheat so often, what exactly are you trying to get out of demo recording? Why not just make outright TASes if that's your preference?

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

Making TASes isn't my preference I edited those demos because most of them were one or a few tiny mistakes away from the desired time. I thought that I could have done better or I was just stupid so I tired to subtly edit them. I didn't fully realize even if you just slightly copy or delete already existing tics in xdre it wouldn't seem like cheating, obviously I was extremely wrong. After changing my profile and talking to Dew, all of my demos currently in the nomonsters and personal best pages aren't cheated if you check them.   

[GoneAway]

Shon, it's clear that you're only unhappy you got caught and have no problem with cheating repeatedly. You've even played that "all of my new demos aren't cheated" card right before you've been exposed as cheating multiple times. It's completely absurd and you'll find no sympathy here.

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

The reason I kept cheating after I originally played that card was because I thought I was getting the hang of editing with xdre to the point where unlike the first time I was caught cheating with the horribly edited e3m7 and e1m1 demos that I told Zero Master about, that the following demos i edited were far less noticeable because all I did was edit a turn angle by like a degree, copy/ delete a move or waiting tic, or changed when I interacted with a switch or door.

[baja blast rd.]

12 minutes ago, Ray / Rey / Rae said:

Making TASes isn't my preference I edited those demos because most of them were one or a few tiny mistakes away from the desired time. I thought that I could have done better or I was just stupid so I tired to subtly edit them. I didn't fully realize even if you just slightly copy or delete already existing tics in xdre it wouldn't seem like cheating, obviously I was extremely wrong. After changing my profile and talking to Dew, all of my demos currently in the nomonsters and personal best pages aren't cheated if you check them.   

 

With the first two lines, you are still minimizing the impact of the cheating and showing that you fail to grasp its severity. 

 

Like, you realize that above a certain level of skill, especially in a non-RNG category like -nomonsters, 'one or a few tiny mistakes away from the desired time' represents most of the challenge? 

 

Getting the time you actually got before you edited it isn't the hard part. Many people could get those times with similar effort. Shaving off those last remaining tics in an actual fair run is the hard part. 

 

It's not 'hey I did basically everything, I just fucked up in a silly way, so let's just do a bit of cheatin' -- no big deal, brooo, just a tic or two'; that time you are shaving off is everything. 

 

Everyone fucks up that silly way at something in the otherwise successful run a really high % of the time -- if that something isn't the exact mistake you made, it would have been something else. That is part of being human. That is part of not being depr4vity perfect.  

 

Avoiding all of those mistakes entirely in a run is the hard and arduous part. 

 

Cheaters often justify their cheating with the belief that they are just manufacturing a result they would have gotten regardless with just a bit more time, with just a bit more focus, if something went just a bit better. Cheating is still just as bad even if that's true. But it's usually not true. So you're not only lying to everyone, you're also lying to yourself. 

 

2 minutes ago, Ray / Rey / Rae said:

The reason I kept cheating after I originally played that card was because I thought I was getting the hang of editing with xdre to the point where unlike the first time I was caught cheating with the horribly edited e3m7 and e1m1 demos that I told Zero Master about, that the following demos i edited were far less noticeable because all I did was edit a turn angle by like a degree, copy/ delete a move or waiting tic, or changed when I interacted with a switch or door.

 

"Buuuut I only kept cheating because I thought I was going to get away with it!!!" 

 

Now I see that whole first part of my response is pointless because you lack any morals.

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

I realize the impact of cheating in any competitive matter, I was just explaining the reason i began cheating

[seed]

5 minutes ago, Ray / Rey / Rae said:

I realize the impact of cheating in any competitive matter, I was just explaining the reason i began cheating

 

And they got it, the problem is that you don't. You did it once, you did it twice, then you kept doing it, this is called "repeat offender".

 

Seriously, there's no need for any further explanations right now, friendly advice. You're just embarrassing yourself now.

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

I am very aware that I cheated multiple times and got caught after admitting to it. I was just answering Kraflab's question with the honest reason of why I cheated and continued. And I was trying to tell people who replied that I'm not making up this reason or trying to hide a more embarrassing point. I was asked a question about why I did what I did, and I gave my reason.

[GarrettChan]

Probably I don't really understand English, but the way I read Kraflab's questions is that he doesn't really want your answer. Those are questions that you should answer yourself. It's kind of like saying a question of "why I'm so stupid?" instead saying a statement of "I'm stupid" when I'm making a mistake. Well, perhaps it's not a good analogy.

 

To be honest though, everybody has so many runs they would think just a tiny bit of change would change the whole thing. It's annoying, but if anybody can edit the heck out of his demo in wherever they want, then what's the purpose of non-TAS and TAS. Well, you also think making them less noticeable would let you get pass the barrier. That's a total wrong thought to begin with.

[seed]

It's also important to note where these demos go, the DSDA is not just a random no-name place to dump demos just because, which is why things went the way they went, if it was, no-one would have ever cared.

 

At any rate, what I wanted to say now is that Shon understood the consequence of his repeated action, and we should move on now, instead of making a drama out of this, or to start dogpiling on the man, there's no need for that.

 

I'm sure we've all done similar things at some point in our life - cheating in some capacity I mean, be that at LAN parties with friends or whatever - , so let's not turn this into a potential holier-than-thou kind of argument too.

 

Edit: Apparently this discussion was split into its own topic. Interesting, and understandable.

Edited July 23, 2020 by seed

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

I just wanted ask one last time if I could have demos uploaded to DSDA again after talking to Dew. Yes, I understand the severity of this even after being caught and continuing and I am not trying to deny that it was wrong or anything else like that. Like Seed said, i'll truly stop posting demos to DW and move on.

 

One thing to ask: Can you delete my profile on DSDA?

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

I posted a final message in the DSDA page that needs to be moved here saying that I just wanted to ask one more time if I could be trusted again and said i'll finally move on. With a question of deleting my profile on DSDA.

[dew]

You understand that you did something wrong and you understand what it was, yet you seem to misunderstand why it was wrong. It doesn't matter how little you cheated when you repeatedly broke people's trust and wasted their time. Admitting you cheated after you already got caught has little redeeming value when it's not paired with repentance or remorse or frankly any hint of shame.

 

You're allowed to post demos here, because you promised me you wouldn't cheat anymore, we'll have to see how that goes. That doesn't extend to DSDA, a separate entity whose admins seem to have no taste for the amount of scrutiny your demos would require on their behalf before they could admit them in. You may be able to repair that trust in the future, but it's not something you can demand against a promise.

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

37 minutes ago, dew said:

You understand that you did something wrong and you understand what it was, yet you seem to misunderstand why it was wrong. It doesn't matter how little you cheated when you repeatedly broke people's trust and wasted their time. Admitting you cheated after you already got caught has little redeeming value when it's not paired with repentance or remorse or frankly any hint of shame.

 

Like Dew said I absolutely misunderstood why what I did was wrong especially after I kept doing it. I do feel ashamed and regretful naturally for what i've done and i'm not saying that because I want to have another chance or that I admitted to being a cheater so can I be forgiven. I honestly, truly feel sorry and ashamed for what I did... And that's that.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Ray / Rey / Rae

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

A stupid-ass refrence: 

 

Thou sent to Hell Beneath faced with Perfect Hatred after the people Sever The Wicked to rid them an Unruly Evil, and forever I Will Repent of the actions and perdition Against Thee Wickedly as I left And Hell Followed thee Unto The Cruel of enternal Fear.

 

And thou mourn at the last, when Thy Flesh and thy body are Consumed.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Ray / Rey / Rae

[Loud Silence]

[GoneAway]

2 hours ago, Ray / Rey / Rae said:

One thing to ask: Can you delete my profile on DSDA?

I would much rather keep the demos, for the following reasons:

1) First off, dsda is an archive, and preserving history is its primary function.

2) Despite possibly being cheated, the demos you made still have value, especially ones for maps that no one else has recorded. People can still learn from those demos and they haven't lost value in that respect. While we won't upload demos that we know to be highly suspect, that doesn't mean we want to purge everything that has already been uploaded.

 

I'd be happy to, for instance, remove the "shon_rt" name from dsda and replace it with a pseudonym if that is preferable to you.

[Ray / Rey / Rae]

Yeah, I would like you to replace the name. 

 

Is there any reason to keep the demos on the profile marked as dubious, none of my cheated demos made it to DSDA and I won't be submitting anymore demos. I guess it's good to know if a player has a reputation of cheating in that regard.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Ray / Rey / Rae

[Grazza]

OK, a couple of questions.

 

1) Why do you even want to keep posting your demos here? How many people do you suppose are interested in watching them, given your track record?

 

2) I'll assert that if you knew for an absolute fact that you could cheat without any possibility of being caught, you would continue to do so without hesitation. Is there a reason for anyone to believe otherwise? Could you even convince yourself of that?

 

[TimeOfDeath666]

20 hours ago, Ray / Rey / Rae said:

The reason I kept cheating after I originally played that card was because I thought I was getting the hang of editing with xdre to the point where unlike the first time I was caught cheating with the horribly edited e3m7 and e1m1 demos that I told Zero Master about, that the following demos i edited were far less noticeable because all I did was edit a turn angle by like a degree, copy/ delete a move or waiting tic, or changed when I interacted with a switch or door.

lol, dude quit wasting our time