Do you get lost in maps?

[RottingZombie]

I do. All the time. I will try to be methodic and clear monsters, keeping my eyes open for switches or keys, but nine times out of ten I run around lost for a while after making some progress. I just played Doom2 iwad - map13 downtown.. as I always do, I play for 20 minutes then just warp to the next map since I get tired of feeling stupid and wondering why I can't figure out where to find a damn key. I've beaten it before, but I have a crappy memory and will get lost on maps I've played one hundred times. If i'm playing a map for the first time, I won't give up until I win, but If I've played a map before and start not having fun, away I go :)

 

Do you get lost/take notes/mark map? I mark the map when I find a locked door.

[Chip]

Holy crap! Every single level! No joke! I'm stuck on NEIS level E2M2! all the levels of BTSX took me a good 30 minutes! I am literally the worst!

[P41R47]

26 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

Holy crap! Every single level! No joke! I'm stuck on NEIS level E2M2! all the levels of BTSX took me a good 30 minutes! I am literally the worst!

hahahahahaha, not much, Lil!

You are not the worst, pal!

 

Those mapsets are streamlined to be nonlinear and open, but not damm puzzle-ish and with obscure progress as some maps of ETERNAL DooM (not to be confuced with Doom Eternal, similar name, different games).

Eternal Doom map12: Darkdome and map30: Excalibur, are specially complex.

And 30 minutes is not much time, don't worry.

I spent two hours on some maps of Eternal Doom.

And i heard that some slaughtermaps have a running time of 2 to 6 hours of continue play to complete them.

 

On topic, there are some other mapsets that i find sometimes confucing, too.

-A.L.T. have some huge and really mindfucking maps.

-Hellbound have really interesting realistic maps, but i get tired of them really fast, don't know why.

-Struggle: Antaresian Legacy its not only difficult, its also huge nonlinear and exploratory all at the same time.

-Comatose is a map that is easy to get lost, but once you understand the different areas, you can't stop getting amazed by the breathtaking view and the monumentl effort Lainos made.

-Sacrament has some ''where i have to go now?'' moments, and i'm not talking about Doxylamine Moon (love it!).

-Memento Mori II last 10 maps are really different from the previous, and they become megalithic in comparison and are easier to get lost (The Silos, specially).

-2002: A Doom Odyssey, E4M6: Pallai's Dementia is really really huge and it get really tedious after the fourth or fifth Baron of Hell, and there are like... fifteen of them, maybe?

-TNT: Evilution map20: Central Processing is a huge change of pace from the previous maps, and is easy to get lost on it, even after playing it for 20 years or so. In short, most of Team TNT works has some complex maps that are easy to get lost around. But i can't stop loving those maps. Its somewhat their trademark by now.

While lost, one start to search for things that might have been overlooked, and theres when the one can find the huge amount of details the author of the map put on it... or not details at all, also.

There are a few more that have complex maps that has obscure or complex progression, but i don't remember them right now.

Edited August 8, 2020 by P41R47

[Pseudonaut]

I usually do get lost on unfamiliar maps, or even on something like map13 "Downtown." The problem is usually resolved by playing the map multiple times within a short period of time, but I'd rather not do that for Downtown, and it's obviously not something you do on a casual first-time playthrough of a wad. I don't take notes or mark the map.

Also, whenever I'm doing a casual first-time playthrough, I pretty much always try to kill everything and find all the secrets. I'm kind of OCD about it, and it results in a lot of time spent wandering around aimlessly. Eventually, I'll check the wiki, a video, or a demo to find any missing secrets.

 

17 minutes ago, LiT_gam3r said:

I'm stuck on NEIS level E2M2!

 

This reminds me, I recently started NEIS and E2M2 was the last map that I finished. I should get back to it. It's a relatively confusing wad, especially when trying to find all the secrets. Navigating and finding the secrets in NEIS might actually be harder than the combat itself.

[Curie The Ace]

all the time

[PasokonDeacon]

It's not often that I get lost, but I am definitely a slow and steady type of player. Being cautious and thorough, up and until the point where getting aggressive is pretty much necessary to survive, means I spend a lot of time combing and double-checking even straightforward long maps like those in Back to Saturn X and other such WADs. First-time runs are full of this for me, as I do a good job of memory recall upon replays.

[Hellektronic]

I was just playing Icarus: Alien Vanguard the other week and man... that second mission is a soul crusher.

 

It was to that dreadful point where every monster is dead and I'm just walking around with the map open *grunt* *grunt* *grunt*, saying to myself "C'mon c'mon, don't give up, it's gotta be here somewhere damn it!" Haha. I figured it out, but holy hell.

 

Usually I can do pretty good with the map, I use it oldschool colors and everything, no zany ZDoom nuances. But that was one case where I was almost 100% stumped about what to do next.

[PeterMoro]

Some Doom64 maps have confusing progression. 

[nostalgia]

Sometimes. I can identify two ways of being lost.

In one I'm unsure where to go first. For example one way it's the Plasma Gun, in the other the Rocket Launcher and so on. I dislike this kinds of maps because after watching the UV-max in youtube I realize the map was easier than I expected but I took the "wrong" way. Bullshit. This happened to me recently while playing the cathedral level in Scythe 2, the one with the Dancing Mad midi. And happens a lot in certain Slaughter wads.

The other one is simply don't know where in hell to go. The first time I got lost was in E1M7 and from then... I don't know. The last time it happened was in A.L.T's MAP24. A lot of switches and no clue of where to go. I had to look it up on Youtube and there was a hidden teleporter in a dark sector between a wall. Again, bullshit.

 

Maybe I'm used to just run, kill, grab keys and circle strafing. In my defense, maps nowadays are made for this! these damn mappers!

[Chip]

57 minutes ago, nostalgia said:

I'm unsure where to go first.

Usually before these sections, I save. If I choose the wrong one, I go to the other. 

58 minutes ago, nostalgia said:

I had to look it up on Youtube and there was a hidden teleporter in a dark sector between a wall. Again, bullshit.

I absolutely despise these maps. I find them mostly in DN3D episode 4, but that isn't DOOM. It's like you are running around, going to the start, and going back to the end, and then you find out that that wall texture is different from the rest, and there is that stupid exit switch. At this point, I get seriously pissed! Why do you have a pretty self explanatory level of PROGRESS, only for the map to end with wall humping!? give me a break! I just killed 100 demons, now I have to put up with this bullshit! let me enjoy the WAD, don't ruin it with a switch hunt (unless it is a puzzle WAD). 

[Doomkid]

I’m awful about missing obvious switches or doors. Sometimes I’ll miss one right in front of my face, back track to the start of the map, then finally make my way back to where I was and then I’ll see the obvious door, and proceed to feel like an idiot. It’s added like 10-15 unnecessary minutes to SO many maps I’ve played through..

[haruko haruhara]

Oh god yes I can't even get pass one of the dark7 maps without getting lost

[Chip]

12 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I’m awful about missing obvious switches or doors. 

happens all the time to me. In BTSX ep. 1, there is a level somewhere between the beginning and middle of the game. at the end, there is a platform that has to be lowered to get to the exit, and a few stairs above, there was a switch to lower the platform. 40 minutes later, I realize this, hit the switch, and laugh to myself. Not the greatest moment for me. :P

 

I can't get past this area in the original DOOM. does anybody know what I'm supposed to do?

[RottingZombie]

Well, I feel better that I'm not alone in getting lost or missing obvious switches/doors etc!

 

I made it through BTSX E1 years ago somehow and didn't get frustrated; it must be that it's so beautiful and good that I don't mind wandering a bit. Going to play it again and then E2 soon.

[Biodegradable]

Yeah, I get lost sometimes. Though a lot of the times it's more a sense of getting stuck at a point where I'm unsure what the map wants me to do. It really depends on the map's progression and how cheeky the mapper's feeling if they decide to hide a key in a rather precarious spot or they put an important switch in an easy to miss spot and you keep lumbering past it several times until you finally spot it, feel like a dingus, then press it and move on with your day hehe. Then you've just got some maps with a really confusing layout or their texture work is really bland and repetitive which just leads to everything looking the same. That can get you pretty lost especially.

[spineapple tea]

The earliest memory I have with Doom is getting lost in the first room of E1M1. To be fair I was 8 but still that's pathetic. And nothing has changed, still get lost all the time.

 

Edit: I believe I was trying to open the door behind you at the start, not knowing that it didn't open.

[HQDefault]

I've reached the point now where I don't call it "getting lost" anymore.

'Cause it's not like getting lost in the woods and you don't know where you are. Not knowing where I actually am almost never happens (unless they copy/paste areas, but wow don't do that)

 

Now I usually call it "I don't understand what the level designer wants me to do". Which is a lot more verbose... but I think it gets my point across better.

This can happen for a variety of reasons, but usually it's that the map has so many switches and doors that they all sort of gel together in your brain, so no particular door really sticks out to me as "oh hey I should go back to that place". This version is probably the one that annoys me the most because I keep having moments where I'm looking for the path forward, I finally find a door that I haven't gone through yet... and there's nothing there but a healthpack or something. That's immensely frustrating.

 

Sometimes it's just that they put the door or switch in a place where your eye is drawn away from, which is less egregious but still not ideal.

Every once in a while you'll reach a point where you just randomly try something that I you didn't think would work, but... it does. I always hate that.

I also have an issue where sometimes I didn't realize I picked up a key. This is partially the fault of Doom's UI, because that could have been made more clear (although something like ProDoomer's solution is a bit extreme) and it can be very easy to not see that you grabbed it inside of a dark/cramped room.

 

I do have moments, however, where I go... "Oh, nevermind, I'm just blind"

 

 

Anyway, this is probably the big thing that I always try to avoid when mapping. Aimless wandering really is no fun at all. If you want to prevent this (specifically in non-linear maps, in linear maps it's usually very easy) I find it's best to have the more important pathways have larger, clearer entrances. Leave optional stuff more off the beaten path. That, and also have your branching paths re-converge towards where you need the player to be. Keeps the pace up, and they won't have to make mental note of absolutely everything.

 

Oh yeah, and progression-critical secrets are dumb, unless you basically say that's the point of the map.

 

 

 

I will say, however, that I've gotten better about not having this problem so often. I think Old-School level design is something you have to acclimatize to.

Edited August 8, 2020 by HQDefault

[pcorf]

Sometimes you find a key and then spend 2 hours searching for that damned key door. A terrible design habit.

[Eurisko]

4 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I’m awful about missing obvious switches or doors. Sometimes I’ll miss one right in front of my face, back track to the start of the map, then finally make my way back to where I was and then I’ll see the obvious door, and proceed to feel like an idiot. It’s added like 10-15 unnecessary minutes to SO many maps I’ve played through..

 

THIS. All of this. 

 

I don't get lost as such but boy do I miss switches and the like. Staring me in the face most of the time.

[MFG38]

Rarely. About 10 years ago, I was the guy who spent 40-something minutes in D2 MAP13 - but now, after playing my fair share of hour-long adventure-style maps that sprawl from one edge of the mappable area to another (slight exaggeration, but you get the point), I've gotten pretty good at memorizing important locations and general navigation. I've also gotten into the habit of consulting the automap semi-regularly, which helps in its own right.

[vanilla_d00m]

I think everybody has at least once.  Unless you have psychic powers.. I just finished DOOM 64 in 5 hours today.  I still can't get used to it like I did in DOOM II.

 

I have save state on the left analog stick, so when I press it down it saves.

[Doom-X-Machina]

Yes, but usually if it's a WAD im playing for the first time or if I'm not familiar with it yet. I may find myself consulting the automap to work out where I'm heading...

I haven't gotten lost in the IWADs since the 1990's. After 1000 replays you can pretty much memorize the maps in your head.

[Kristian Nebula]

Back in 1995 I remember being lost in E2M2 for ages... :D 

But indeed, like many have said already sometimes one misses the most obvious switches and don't know how to proceed!

[seed]

More than I care to admit.

 

My sense of direction and spacial awareness is abysmal, and that applies to real life too.

[Final Verdict]

 

I rarely ever get lost in maps but it happens to everyone occasionally. The downside is that I tend to get pissed off very easily if I do get lost, because I'm not used to being lost.

 

If I can't progress then I won't last long before the red mist descends and all rational thought is ejected from my cranium. I'm generally calm and collected but everyone has a 'tick' and that is one of mine. It's quite a rare occurrence, but I bet it would be first class entertainment to watch.

 

[fufu]

Sometimes, if it happens i usually open the automap and walk around until i found a unmarked sector or just backtrack to see if something new happens, if i get REALLY lost i would have to resort to watch a playthrough or in the worst cases, noclipping.

[Andromeda]

I get lost all the time in most AAA modern levels because of their extreme nonlinearity. I usually give them a second play afterwards in which I never get lost, interesting how the brain's able to memorize the layout down to the smallest detail so quickly.

[idbeholdME]

Not really that often anymore after having played so much Doom. I get stuck on looking for secrets, but almost never on the way forward.

 

I can recommend the Misri Halek map from Alien Vendetta to see how you fare :P

[nname]

Yes, very often actually. And I hate it! It might just be me, but it ruins the experience.

[FractalBeast]

I have a pretty good sense of direction and mental mapping. The only way for me to get lost really... is teleporters. Which often means I skip out on teleporters and later realise I could have finished the map much earlier if I had just stepped on that teleporter.