How Hard is doom eternal compared to the classic doom games?

[Dr.Ferret]

So people keep saying how hard doom eternal is. I was wondering how ha4d it is compared to doom 1,2, final doom, and doom 64.

 

Oh btw I trick I found online for doom eternal is if you go to the second mission and get the life at the start, you exit the mission then go back to get the life again keeping all the lives you farm.

[MassiveEdgelord]

It's a modern game so it's probably easy.

[DNSKILL5]

I think they play too differently to compare the difficulties. 

[Job]

On the higher difficulties, it's a good deal harder IMO. 

[Endless]

These are very different comparisons divided by more than 25 years.

 

Doom can be as fucking hard as you like if you play community content. However, games in their original state are not that hard if we look at it from an adapted point of view.

 

Doom 1 & 2 were unique and different games when they came out. It was a difficult adjustment that took some time to players back in the day.

 

Dom Eternal on the other hand is a game that follows modern mechanics that we are already used to but with a classic, arena style twist. Doom Eternal is difficult compared to other FPS games, it is a game that requires persistence to master in high difficulties.

[GarrettChan]

To be honest, there's no real way to compare since you're comparing pear and apple, although they are both called Doom.

[StalkerZHS]

doom eternal on nightmare is ALMOST as hard as classic doom on nightmare

 

so...

 

pretty dang hard

[Hellektronic]

I'll put it like this:

 

Eternal is harder because the demons have unfair advantages the original games didn't give them... I mean like Doom 2 there were bullshit traps traps traps, but Eternal does it differently.

 

First, during an arena battle, demons always know where the player is, always. They're either charging or flanking your current position no matter how out-of-sight you are, so you have to move like a rabid marsupial to avoid getting surrounded.

 

Second, demon projectiles home perfectly in the directly you're moving, hitting you mid-run, mid-air, etc. They lead the shot robotically perfect, making traditional strafing and running away very difficult.

 

But then you get a few advantages to offset their cheat-like advantages, like being able to recover health and ammo from enemies or extra lives. It's a pretty minor bonus on nightmare, but its still something.

 

All in all though, nightmare and ultra-nightmare in Eternal are really bad unless you have extra lives, maxed out stats and every secret. Even then it's pretty damn hard. More than likely you'll die several times by accident, because any minor mistake is like horrendous amounts of damage and/or instant death. So in other words, it's really hard. Ultra-nightmare is probably the hardest difficulty yet, it's harder than 2016's ever was.

 

To be perfectly honest with you, I don't like these unfair elements and miss the original's balance. But the game itself is still very fun and dynamic, so it's more fun on lower difficulties where that outrageously unfair fireball hit from across a chasm isn't like game-changing. I just have to convince myself of that and stop playing ultra-nightmare all the time, lol.

 

 

 

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Doom Eternal is much harder. Doom 1 isn't even a comparison with its easy monsters and Doom 2 has very easy maps. 

[MassiveEdgelord]

46 minutes ago, Pegg said:

Doom 2 has very easy maps. 

You mean in terms of enemies right????

[Cruduxy Pegg]

In terms of everything. There is way too many pickups. Enemies are easier to kill. Weapons are stronger. Doom guy runs faster than projectiles etc. The only thing going for classic dooms are shit default controls and fps if you use dosbox. 

[seed]

Easily the most difficult in the series. More advanced mechanics, abilities, AI, and the levels and combat is all designed around that.

 

Again, strictly talking about the official releases. Classic Doom has otherwise tons of mods than eclipse the new Doom games in terms of challenge, not even a debate.

[Hellektronic]

1 minute ago, seed said:

Again, strictly talking about the official releases. Classic Doom has otherwise tons of mods than eclipse the new Doom games in terms of challenge, not even a debate.

 

Serious question- other than challenge wads like slaughter maps, are there any good mods that make the base games harder? I've only ever been able to find things like Hard Doom, Brutal Doom, and like the Universal AI mod. I've been meaning to try out Custom Doom... I have it, but I haven't tried it out.

 

Just curious if anybody has some insight on mods like that.

[DNSKILL5]

Just think, in 20 years when there’s at least 1 new Doom game between DE and then, 2016/DE will be talked about in the same way some of the posters here are talking about classic doom.
 

Don’t worry, I’ll still be alive by then to let you all know I told you so. 

[Eurisko]

It's as tough but in its own way. Classic Doom still trumps over Eternal in terms of gameplay freedom in how you deal with situations where Eternal wants you to play in a certain way i.e.- Chainsaw for ammo, flame for armour and glory kill for health and balance and master it via increasingly challenging fights." The Combat Chess".

[idbeholdME]

Eternal goes the lazy way of mostly bloating damage numbers on higher difficulties, same as Doom 2016. So yes, it is probably harder but in a cheap and unfun way. The glorious "Doomslayer" falls over to 3 Imp fireballs because the difficulty made them do insane (45 IIRC on Nightmare) damage.

 

The forced resource starvation making you have to get into melee range doesn't help either.

[Hellektronic]

9 hours ago, idbeholdME said:

Eternal goes the lazy way of mostly bloating damage numbers on higher difficulties, same as Doom 2016. So yes, it is probably harder but in a cheap and unfun way. The glorious "Doomslayer" falls over to 3 Imp fireballs because the difficulty made them do insane (45 IIRC on Nightmare) damage.

 

The forced resource starvation making you have to get into melee range doesn't help either.

 

And the fact that the AI perfectly leads fireballs into your intended destination, and always knows where you are in the area universally, lol... cheap and unfun is pretty much the name of the game as far as demons go in the new games. It forces you to have to be moving constantly in absurd ways to dodge every little fireball and still stay away from the big guys.

 

BUT, if you find that perfect balance between difficulty and survivability, it's actually not really that bad. I just don't think nightmare is for most people, it's pretty ridiculous in a stupid way.

 

10 hours ago, Eurisko said:

It's as tough but in its own way. Classic Doom still trumps over Eternal in terms of gameplay freedom in how you deal with situations where Eternal wants you to play in a certain way i.e.- Chainsaw for ammo, flame for armour and glory kill for health and balance and master it via increasingly challenging fights." The Combat Chess".

 

I miss gameplay freedom, I really do. It's definitely not a trait of modern gaming.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

On 8/11/2020 at 5:12 AM, Hellektronic said:

 

Serious question- other than challenge wads like slaughter maps, are there any good mods that make the base games harder? I've only ever been able to find things like Hard Doom, Brutal Doom, and like the Universal AI mod. I've been meaning to try out Custom Doom... I have it, but I haven't tried it out.

  

Just curious if anybody has some insight on mods like that.

Basically any mods that focus on realism should be good for a starter, like Hideous Destructor.

[Tony_Danza_the_boss]

It's easy af. Doom 2 and even 1 are harder in almost every way.

[A Nobody]

John Carmack and Romero sure loved their traps in Classic. It's just not funny.

[jazzmaster9]

7 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

It's easy af. Doom 2 and even 1 are harder in almost every way.

Are we just gonna ignore all the people who complained about the Marauder and Ammo being scarce? 

 

I guess we gotta bend reality to fit your narrative huh?

[Mordeth]

7 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

ignore all the people who complained about the Marauder

 

I haven't played Doom2016 nor Eternal, but I've seen some youtube videos of peeps destroying marauders in seconds. Not that I like 'shoot the weak spot' combat, but still.

[Hunting4r2d2]

I would say it's harder than most official classic doom maps, though I don't think its difficulty is cheap or unfair. Personally, Plutonia Experiment still holds the title of "Hardest Doom Game."

[jazzmaster9]

1 minute ago, Mordeth said:

 

I haven't played Doom2016 nor Eternal, but I've seen some youtube videos of peeps destroying marauders in seconds. Not that I like 'shoot the weak spot' combat, but still.

There also been videos of people Humiliating the Mastermind and beating the Doom 2 maps in under 20 seconds so its a fair balance.

[D4NUK1]

For context.
 

Timeframed to the topic in context.

 

Everyone can compare and see what of the 3 it's the more difficult one.

[DooM Bear]

DooM eternal is weird in its difficulty!

 

The first 4 or so levels are the hardest IMO as you are slowly gaining all your upgrading all your abilities and are fairly under powered. The next level or two after those give you time to get used to using them all together at which point the difficulty drops off a little. Then the last level or two are quite a challenge again.

 

Over all I think it is definitely the hardest commercial DooM game I’ve played but mainly cos I felt a little unfairly outclassed and out gunned at times. Not quite to the point where I would call bullshit though :-P

 

Oh and pro tip to any new players, chainsaw is your friend XD You will need to use it like every 15 seconds :-P It’s a hot key and it’s quick so isn’t too bad but I did wish the ammo capacity was just a little higher (maybe something like +10%) :-P

[A Nobody]

Well both are excellent.

[Hellektronic]

I always mention it, but I really don't like the idea behind how marauders were designed.

 

I describe it as like... trying to make them hard in the laziest ways possible. Like grotesquely lazy, lol. It's not inventive, it's not nuanced, it's not even creative... it's like a stereotypical bossfight. We're talking a game series known for having to shoot the living hell out of bullet sponge bosses, and all of a sudden we've got this zany twist where the enemy just blocks every attack you try for no damage unless it's during a tiny timed window.

 

People always say to me: "but you can hit them around the shield!" Yeah, but not enough to really make a difference. You're still going to have to play their extremely linear little minigame of hitting them when they do their melee swings. So obviously, you benefit from using only instant high damage attacks like the super shotgun or ballista. Anything else, you might as well not even bother. The game forces you to fight marauders ONE WAY, and if you don't do it that ONE WAY, you're just going to take a lot of damage and probably die.

 

Watch that video above, it completely proves my point. Ballista, super shotgun, ballista, super shotgun, everybody does it the same.

 

You know what other game does this? Call of Duty. 2016 wasn't like that. The rest of the game is great, I just completely despise that lazy bullshit attempt to make a notoriously hard enemy that everybody talks about. And look- everyone DOES talk about it, lol. Because they intended it to be that way.

 

I can beat them no problem- but at the end of the day, it's not inventive or cool, it's just lazy. Lazy conception, lazy execution.

 

Hell, spider masterminds in Doom 1/2? I can kill them with a rocket launcher, I can kill them with a plasma gun, I can kill them with a chaingun, I can kill them with a BFG, I can kill them with a pump shotgun, I can kill them with a damn pistol if I want! But marauders demand you play one way. This is what we've become.

 

Ok, I'm done ranting.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Hellektronic

[D4NUK1]

[jazzmaster9]

4 hours ago, Hellektronic said:

Watch that video above, it completely proves my point. Ballista, super shotgun, ballista, super shotgun, everybody does it the same.

No it just proves that. That is the most painless way to kill the marauder. I've seen players kill the marauder in various ways. 

 

This is the same people who cry that Dark Souls 3 is just "spamming twinblades, lazy" because they see tips and tricks videos on youtube about it.

 

Even in classic Doom there are multiple ways to kill an Archvile... But the best way is to rush it with a BFG.

 

4 hours ago, Hellektronic said:

You know what other game does this? Call of Duty. 

Ohh boy i was looking for this

"Its COD and bad" 😂😂 

Im sorry but last time i checked there were no enemy specific strategies in Call of Duty. 

4 hours ago, Hellektronic said:

like... trying to make them hard in the laziest ways possible. Like grotesquely lazy, lol.

 

Lazy...

 

Quote

lazy. Lazy .....

"Its lazy" "its generic" "its a cash grab"

 

"I dont like it but i need to have legitimate reason no to like it... Its the devs fault"

 

Its become a buzzword at this point for anyone not liking anything.

 

The only lazy thing here are players who cant learn the mechanics of the marauder and blames the game.

 

Sorry id didnt make the game the way you liked, but it has nothing to do with lack of effort.

4 hours ago, Hellektronic said:

Ok, I'm done ranting.

See you on the next Doom Eternal Thread

Edited August 13, 2020 by jazzmaster9