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Chip

If you had a time machine to go back in time, what would you change in the original DOOM?

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I've seen a lot of these What if topics on the forums recently, and thought I'd do one myself. The question is pretty self-explanatory, but I'll explain it more. Basically, if you went back in time to early 1993 and went to ID, what would you tell John Carmack to program differently, or add to DOOM to make it better (even though it is already perfect)? Or, if you could ask one of the map creators to do something different in their maps, what would it be? There is no limit to how much you would change, so post as much as you'd like. They don't have to be changes everybody agrees with, just one that you would want to see.

 

For me personally, I would add a room over room ability so you could see the same area from several different perspectives, and make buildings feel more realistic.

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Remove all damage RNG; less hardcoding so that, for example, players could use tag 666 and secret exits in different levels; add jumping to Doom 2 (they COULD do it, with the Archvile), and tell 'em about all game-breaking bugs and quirks that they should've fixed.

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Tell Sandy Petersen to practice mapping and have a better map design, or seeing how he loved Lovecraft, probably had some more eldritch feels to it.

 

 

 

 

and remove doom rng, like @Juza said cus honestly rng is ugly.

I can not say much, as I would also like jumping and crouching, many maps could be cooler with that.

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The only urgency I could think of is to fix the collision detection immediately, and since we're here I guess any other big common bug too, I mean the archvile bug is mostly so notable every now and then but you can't escape blockmap shenanigans on some source ports. The rest like HP of few "overly bulky" monsters or the spider mastermind's problems would be appreciated as well though nothing that a dehacked patch can't alleviate. 

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I'd completely change the Spider Mastermind by making it less wide and easier to fit in a level, finish up the scrapped magic attack it was meant to have, and give it some additional health so players can't simply run up to it with a BFG and kill it within 3 seconds of it waking up. I'd also probably add Hell Knights in as well because there are so many spots in the original that really could've used the less beefy cousin of the Baron, such as E4M1. I'd go so far as to say they'd improve the slow pacing that some levels had.

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Increase visplane limit to 384 allowing custom mappers to add more detail to their maps. The limit was there to prevent overloading the slower CPU's back then but it was frustrating for many. It was caused to too many different light levels and sector heights in view at once.

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2 hours ago, AD_79 said:

Genuinely curious, why would people want Doom's damage RNG to be removed? It's a big part of what keeps the game feeling unpredictable and interesting, and gameplay mods that remove that aspect end up falling rather flat to me as a result.

 

Long answer: I prefer leaving as little to luck as possible, and removing damage RNG does just that. Enemy movement is what I'd say brings the most variety to Doom gameplay, RNG damage is just an annoyance. It's frustrating when a Revenant missile does 80 damage when it could've done just 10, and I don't see any reason at all to how that much luck would add anything good to its gameplay. I prefer to keep a balance. Being able to tank damage would add an extra layer to Doom gameplay also. Being sure of how much ammo exactly it would take to kill an enemy, and for that enemy to kill you, would allow better balance in the mapper's part, and for much smoother runs in the player's part.

 

Short answer: I play games for fun, not to gamble.

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Just a matter of different things being fun for different people I suppose. I think different enemies requiring different numbers of shots to go down is not only more fun, but more realistic, oddly (think of humans, or any other animal - some can take way more damage than others)

 

Heres a mod that not only removes RNG but makes all weapons shoot perfectly symmetrical, unchanging patterns of bullets - https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6569

 

It makes the game more predictable and thus more lame, but that’s just my opinion, many great games have like 0 RNG, the amazing old Mario games for NES and SNES come to mind. Every enemy can be dealt with identically, and regardless of my opinion it makes for an interesting, totally optional mod. I can only guarantee compatibility with Zandronum, but I’d be very surprised if it doesn’t also work in GZDoom!

 

Fixed Link here: CompetitiveWeapons_1b.zip

Edited by Doomkid

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I don't need much more in my doom. Just add a few more monsters types and increase the chain gun rate of fire... And nerf the chaingunners a bit.

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I'd have made it a full-on arcade game. Keep the lives and scoring system in there, disincentivise saving/loading somehow (possibly a score reset upon load?), probably expand the scoring mechanism with a multiplier cooldown to push combat forward. Less RNG and luck in the mechanics, balance the game for pure adrenaline-fuelled arcade UNGA BUNGA DAKKA DAKKA.

I know without response that there are a LOT of people now thankful I don't have access to a time machine. ;)

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Monsters would have unique pain sounds instead of recycling the "OHHNNG" sound so much. It would also be interesting to see how the weapons would look and feel if they were modeled from real guns, or at least not from toys.

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1 hour ago, Lippeth said:

It would also be interesting to see how the weapons would look and feel if they were modeled from real guns, or at least not from toys.

Maybe, but honestly the few “real” weapons of the game look real enough in my opinion (as an avid gun owner/collector myself). Just for fun I’ll make a few points but this is not to argue against your opinion:
 

The fist and the chainsaw are self explanatory. They use a real hand and a real chainsaw. 
 

The pistol is definitely inspired by the Beretta 92FS, and the toy is definitely modeled to look close to a 92FS. This makes actual sense in real life, especially back in the 90s when this was still the common service pistol for not only the US Armed Forces (in fact, the US Army just recently switched to the M-17 pistol, and there are still many still using the Beretta much like there was still people with the 1911 when they initially transitioned to the 92FS), but it was also a common service pistol of NATO at the time as well. So if it was meant to be more realistic I’d say they would’ve given it 15-18 rounds before a reload. 
 

The shotgun, while it isn’t really based on any specific pump action shotgun, it would appear that it has rifle sights on the gun instead of a standard bead. This is something you can actually have on Mossbergs and Remingtons still to this day. While they’re usually used for shooting shotgun slugs accurately like a rifle, they can be used for buckshot about as easily as a bead sight. The part that I find unrealistic about the shotgun is the way the marine racks it. In reality, the marine has no reason to move the gun out of his line of sight to pump/rack it, he could just keep it sighted in on his targets while racking it (eg. Doom 64, Quake) but I feel the reason they did it the way they did is because it looks cool, and he’s more than likely hip firing which it would be easier to rack this way if that’s the case, but a combat marine would more than likely be aiming ahead even when reloading in real life and not hip firing. If the shotgun were modeled after a real gun, it appears it would be a 20” barrel shotgun with a capacity of at least 7-9 before reload. 
 

The SSG is not that realistic in how it works, but it looks like a typical sawed off double barrel side by side. In reality, the marine would be able to use it more like you can in Blood if it was meant to be realistic. I think they made it like it was so that it would have the advantage of wider spread, and the disadvantage of slower follow up shots than the pump action. I think this was the right choice. 
 

The rest of the guns, well I think they’re made up with good intentions. I don’t think I’d want to see those changed much. The rocket launcher‘s rockets would probably move a lot faster if it was based off a real weapon though. 
 

Also, forgot to mention... Doom actually does a better job at shotgun spread than most modern games. Sure, it may seem unrealistic (especially if you don’t know much about real shotguns and believe they are just an arc of death that doesn’t need to be aimed, fyi that’s a myth), but in real life the longer the range, the wider the spread, not the other way around. Modern games tend to give shotguns no range whatsoever by force, and the spread is only minimal. Obviously it’s not “realistic” in Doom either, but it is certainly more realistic in my opinion than the way games like COD do their shotguns. 

Edited by Gerolf : Added in a bit about shotgun spread

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A larger variety of textures and flats.

There should be a heavier chaingunner that has power armor and uses incendiary rounds. :P

Like pcorf said about the visplane limitation.

Like Biodegradable said, a better D2 end boss.

No Wolfenstein stuff in Doom 2.

A Secret level should be possible in any map slot other than the first.

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- I'd probably give the Baron of Hell a second, different projectile attack more like a spreading triple shot, so it's not just an Imp which hits harder.

- I'd probably also give the Spider Mastermind a second attack. I'm thinking a series of homing projectiles which are slower than the Revenant, but better at turning corners - more like the Vore attack from Quake 1, but the projectiles would self-terminate after a set amount of time. They'd make a distinctive sound while moving.

 

- I'd probably also make the pistol and chaingun fire more like the way they're done in the Valiant wad for Doom 2 - faster to make the pistol more useful, and the chaingun chew through ammo so you've got a choice about which to use.

 

- I also second the unique monster pain sound thing, although I think that was a choice for space reasons.

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Sprites and flats load from a PWAD.

Doom2 is a true superset of Doom 1 (i.e., no missing textures/flats).

Doom2 use episodes like ExMy with D_ExMy for music names (like Doom 1).

 

Ideally, Doom 2 should be able to play any Doom 1 PWAD without modifications.

 

I could go on, but these are the ones that have bugged me the most.

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16 minutes ago, Gerolf said:

quote

I should've said "captured" instead of "modeled". I agree that they look real enough, in fact they look great. And yes, the toys are modeled after real guns and the game reflects that, but I would have been interested to see the actual sprites designed from photos of the real guns, or at least something other than toy guns. It's specifically the gun enthusiast in me that finds the concept amusing. Granted the plasma gun and BFG are fantasy, but they were still designed from photos of toys, so it would be neat to see how they would have looked if using photos of like an aircraft engine, as a crude example. The fist and chainsaw get a pass for obvious reasons, and the rocket launcher gets a pass because it just looks that cool, and I think it was designed from scratch, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Basically there's always something in me that feels weird whenever I think about it, like I'm a grown man playing with virtual toy guns. At the same time it's comforting to know that no matter how old I get, It's always fun to shoot cartoon demons with toy guns, and knowing that they're toys only adds to the charm of the whole package.

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