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DCG Retrowave

DOOM 87: The Lost World (Demo Release) for DOOM II - Vanilla-compatible maps.

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13 hours ago, Pegleg said:

Romero's rules are a good place to start, and he generally does follow his own rules. I actually can't recall a map where you can see the outside, but can't get outside somewhere on the map. In fact, I'm struggling to figure out a place where he strongly violates his own rules. Regardless, one of the things about rules is that they can be broken, but you have to have a strong enough base of knowledge to know when to break them.

 

 

It has been discussed on this board before in a few places. His use of texture alignment in particular was lax for someone who is 'strict' about it. I do not want to get this thread derailed further, so I'll leave it at that. 

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16 hours ago, Doomkid said:

The video you linked to is valuable, but this statement is a load of bullshit. You've never come anywhere near the bottom of the barrel if you think this is it, in fact this is on the higher end. Play wow.wad if you want to see the bottom of the barrel.

 

It's a figure of speech. Doesn't make the maps any better if some exist that are even worse.

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16 hours ago, P41R47 said:

I will always prefer something bold and unexpected like this mapset than another good looking kinda more of the same but good gameplay-wise mapset that wins a cacoward.

Doom is an art scene, and as such, diversity is always better. One megawad like this might become the the epicenter of the new vanguard that will make the modern standar tremble.

 

Have you actually played the maps here? Unless you're one of the hipsters who considers random crap thrown on a canvas to be "modern art," somehow I don't think this will cut it in the same category as Valiant for e.g. Which, as I said above, is perfectly fine. But I don't see a need to butter anybody up with false praise when the levels are obviously atrocious. As for Cacoward material, it seems these days most winners are wads that try as hard as possible to be unlike a Doom wad. Not that that's a bad thing, but traditional level sets are far from the only ones deemed good.

 

The video I linked isn't a guide to John Romero's personal style of mapping. It's very basic rules that ANY Doom map should adhere to. About the second thing a mapper ought to familiarize himself/herself with after getting the hang of your level editor of choice.

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24 minutes ago, QuaketallicA said:

The video I linked isn't a guide to John Romero's personal style of mapping. It's very basic rules that ANY Doom map should adhere to.

 

Thus spake QuaketallicA, arbiter of wads.

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41 minutes ago, QuaketallicA said:

As for Cacoward material, it seems these days most winners are wads that try as hard as possible to be unlike a Doom wad. Not that that's a bad thing, but traditional level sets are far from the only ones deemed good.

Well, yeah, you can't just expect people to stay in the same spot in 26 years, things change. If it helps, Eviternity claims to have "classic gameplay", and is reflected clearly in most maps, which is important of what makes Doom DOOM. Similarly, Cacoward crew also gave an Doom E1 replacement (Shotgun Symphony) a fairly formidable spot in the top 10 winners, and 3 of the runnerups are vanilla/90s in spirit, showing that vanilla can never really goes away.

 

41 minutes ago, QuaketallicA said:

Have you actually played the maps here? Unless you're one of the hipsters who considers random crap thrown on a canvas to be "modern art," somehow I don't think this will cut it in the same category as Valiant for e.g. Which, as I said above, is perfectly fine. But I don't see a need to butter anybody up with false praise when the levels are obviously atrocious.

I feel like these 2 sentences are very contradictory. 

I tried this wad myself, best I can tell, you are the one having problem comprehending the art direction/custom texture usage and the various 90s mapping quirks this set has.

 

 

Edited by TheNoob_Gamer : slight tweaks based on rd's corrections

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Just now, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Similarly, Cacoward crew also gave an Doom E1 replacement (Shotgun Symphony) a 7th spot in the top 10 winners, and 3 of the runnerups are vanilla/90s in spirit, showing that vanilla can never really goes away.

 

Just some clarification: the winners (and HMs) aren't ordered from 1st place to 10th.

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15 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Well, yeah, you can't just expect people to stay in the same spot in 26 years, things change. If it helps, Eviternity claims to have "classic gameplay", and is reflected clearly in most maps, which is important of what makes Doom DOOM. Similarly, Cacoward crew also gave an Doom E1 replacement (Shotgun Symphony) a fairly formidable spot in the top 10 winners, and 3 of the runnerups are vanilla/90s in spirit, showing that vanilla can never really goes away.

 

 

Shotgun Symphony was in the minority, in terms of a winner being an actual Doom map set. Hence, most, not all.

Most winners are complete overhauls, and that makes sense, since it probably involves the most work and effort. It takes a really really well designed set of vanilla-styled levels to compete with average but adequate levels in a TC-style mod.

 

I don't have any problem with that whatsoever.

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4 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

Have you actually played the maps here? Unless you're one of the hipsters who considers random crap thrown on a canvas to be "modern art," somehow I don't think this will cut it in the same category as Valiant for e.g. Which, as I said above, is perfectly fine. But I don't see a need to butter anybody up with false praise when the levels are obviously atrocious. As for Cacoward material, it seems these days most winners are wads that try as hard as possible to be unlike a Doom wad. Not that that's a bad thing, but traditional level sets are far from the only ones deemed good.

 

The video I linked isn't a guide to John Romero's personal style of mapping. It's very basic rules that ANY Doom map should adhere to. About the second thing a mapper ought to familiarize himself/herself with after getting the hang of your level editor of choice.

Yes, i played this maps and i like them for what they are. And no, something i can't be at all is a hipster, sorry to tell you.

I will not judge you, as i am completely cool about you having your own opinion.

But maybe you should play more 90's mapsets and much more varied wads in general? I say this because you mentioned Valiant one of the modern standars of doom mapping.

But doom mapping is not all about the standar.

There is more, much more.

I love Mars War, i love Fragport and they are almost unknown for most Doomers. Why? because those megawads tried something different than the standar of their time.

Try Three is a Crowd, a mapset that is soo unique that its going out of radar.

There are much more in doom than the refined classic gameplay, pal! How do you explain A.L.T. ?

It is on par with Doom the way Id Did, the style of megawads you like, and one of the greatest partial conversions: Winter's Fury.

 

This mapset could not be your taste, but they are not bad. Do you undertand that?

No body is putting a gun against you head and forcing you to play them. So don't play them if you don't like them.

We try as much as we can to give constructive criticism to the dfferents projects. If you can't say something construcive, please look elsewhere.

 

Edited by P41R47

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Thank you everyone for your kind words :)

 

I'm running a co-operative server on Odamex with the DOOM 87 demo all day if anyone is interested in trying multiplayer.  The server name is "DCG Retrowave's DOS Gaming Server" and you'll need the latest D87DEMO.WAD for multiplayer support.  I should be on the server throughout most of the day and I'll try to connect as soon as someone joins.

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23 minutes ago, Robot J said:

Awesome Wad! Will play full version or other demos when they come out

Thank you!  Another demo (not just an update for the existing maps) is a possibility, but the full release is nearing completion so it depends on how long it takes to finish :)

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Work without hurry, pal!
Making a good wad is like cooking, spend a good time with it while checking here and there, and it will become something really tasty.
Overcook it, and it might still have a good flavor.
Go on as much as you like, no pressure!
Just don't burn yourself!

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5 hours ago, P41R47 said:

Work without hurry, pal!
Making a good wad is like cooking, spend a good time with it while checking here and there, and it will become something really tasty.
Overcook it, and it might still have a good flavor.
Go on as much as you like, no pressure!
Just don't burn yourself!

Thanks!  That is the goal with this WAD.  I started making it for myself to enjoy on my DOS PC and I only decided to eventually release it publicly once I got serious about making a full megawad.  I keep going back to my earlier maps all the time to improve them whenever I learn something new so the map quality should be pretty consistent :)

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I played that yesterday and it was better than I expected.

These 90s aesthetics are what made me download it.

But the gameplay was good at places. It wasn't a 90s WAD where you get lost and walls are doors and such. It was well done, just keeping those ms paint aesthetics, myhouse.wad, etc.

The archville teleports made me play the shopping mall area more strategically. The later level where you run through tight walls, tough, I died a lot, but it's fair enough for it's style of gameplay. The final level with the japanese archways was also cool and fun to play.

Definitely will have a look at it again when it's finished.

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5 hours ago, Optimus said:

I played that yesterday and it was better than I expected.

These 90s aesthetics are what made me download it.

But the gameplay was good at places. It wasn't a 90s WAD where you get lost and walls are doors and such. It was well done, just keeping those ms paint aesthetics, myhouse.wad, etc.

The archville teleports made me play the shopping mall area more strategically. The later level where you run through tight walls, tough, I died a lot, but it's fair enough for it's style of gameplay. The final level with the japanese archways was also cool and fun to play.

Definitely will have a look at it again when it's finished.

I'm glad you like it!  The "tight walls" map you're referring to is MAP19, right?  I was playing that in co-operative mode with three other players yesterday and I quickly discovered that it's way harder with extra players.  Chances are, one of them is going to screw up the stealth aspect and unleash hell :D.  Did you manage to complete it?  It's a pretty unique DOOM challenge, but that's why I like it.  I want the player to really think about their current situation sometimes, instead of always running around shooting things carelessly :D

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I like the concept these maps have, several aspects still can be improved a lot though. But considering this is your first release, i must say you did a good job overall and i love to see what is to come :)

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5 hours ago, Dranyan said:

I like the concept these maps have, several aspects still can be improved a lot though. But considering this is your first release, i must say you did a good job overall and i love to see what is to come :)

Thanks for the feedback!  I always come back to my earlier maps to enhance them every time I learn something new so the finished product should be pretty great :D

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NEW DEMO RELEASE WITH SIX MORE MAPS!!!  I am very excited to announce that Demo Release 2 is now available.  The maps in this demo are MAP01 (House of Doom), MAP04 (Evil Library), MAP07 (The Ball Game), MAP08 (Marketplace), MAP11 (Arch-Ville), MAP15 (Hall of Memes), MAP19 (Surrounded), MAP21 (Anguish), MAP24 (Lost and Found), MAP27 (The Guillotines), and MAP31 (MIDI Music Festival).  Maps 4, 7, 11, 15, 21, and 24 are the new ones.  This is one-third of the full release's maps in this new demo!  The new demo is attached to this post as well as the original post on this thread.  Thank you all for your support with the first demo!  I hope you enjoy the new content in this release :D

 

 

D87DEMO2.zip

 

Here are some screenshots of the new maps.

 

MAP04: Evil Library

Screenshot_Doom_20200904_220214.png.ad3ae8e9e62ca9c863d8d6fe877eef97.png

 

MAP07: The Ball Game

Screenshot_Doom_20200904_220356.png.9a5320a248acd50ac4fd7532c882d6c1.png

 

MAP11: Arch-Ville

Screenshot_Doom_20200904_223024.png.d67d07648d02cba7316af0d35267303b.png

 

MAP15: Hall of Memes

Screenshot_Doom_20200904_220626.png.126fb65fcc8296cc1232887d9012a5c4.png

 

MAP21: Anguish

Screenshot_Doom_20200904_220900.png.7722901fcc900a5a7050c075610a61b5.png

 

MAP24: Lost and Found

Screenshot_Doom_20200904_221301.png.9012c5c649a0f51ff96f2f156569daf8.png

 

D87DEMO2.zip

 

Edited by DCG Retrowave : Updated multiplayer support

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I discovered some issues in co-operative mode last night with maps 11 and 21.  I've updated the file posted above and the file in the original post on this thread with this minor revision.  You can also download it here.

 

D87DEMO2.zip

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I'm making new walkthrough videos for the new demo with commentary.  Hopefully this will help anyone who gets stuck on any map and also be entertaining for anyone who just wants to see me play my own creation :D

 

Introduction to the walkthroughs, some info about DOOM 87, and me obsessing about retro tech as usual :D

 

MAP01: House of Doom

 

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All right I finally got around to playing the rest of the maps, as well as the newer ones, and here's some quick thoughts:

Map04: A routine exorcism of a public library, very wolfenstein esque, as in, there's hardly any height variation. Kind of a missed opportunity to have a multi-level super library, think the Grand Archives from Dark Souls 3, or something like that. What's here is fun, but I wish there was something more to it. I was a bit disappointed by the ending as well, I feel that, as cliche as it is, something should happen once you pick up the yellow key. Perhaps the bookshelves around you lower, revealing a nasty trap. On another note: the hilariously large copies of "DOS for dummies" are pretty great. Just another example of the charm of this set.


Map07: Even for vanilla, this opening is plain. Very dull, monochromatic stuff. I like the shape of the baseball arena, but its just so barren of color or detail. Something I could see this WAD doing is starting you in a parking lot, maybe a few doom-cute sector cars about in order to spice up the opener. Once you get into the arena, its exactly what I expected, a pretty simple dead simple (haha) clone. I'm not really a fan of this, as dead simple has run its course, and anything that isn't hyper creative with the concept is a bit boring. I do like the lack of cover. Makes it a bit bullet hell like, once you get in the middle of all of it. However, I will say this is my least favorite map so far. It did remind me of Kama Sutra a bit though, with that one football arena map.

 

Map11: A snow map! I love snow maps. You know what else I love? The buildup and narrative of this map, like when you enter the first structure (which reminds me of the citadel's opener) and the archviles appear in those cages. It felt kind of like the beginning of 14 angrier archviles from Valiant, but a more simplistic. Speaking of those cages, you can walk straight through them for some reason (I imagine so that the archviles can teleport). That opening area is pretty brutal, considering you don't have a ton of ammo and it mostly consisted of me running away until I received the plasma rifle. The crazy maze part was not terribly fun, you're not really in any danger at all especially with the rocket launcher. The last room was cool though, reminded me of Aliens when they can't fire a shot without blowing the entire room up, really creative, and I love the little blast wall you get behind that allows you to watch the carnage. On a more critical note, the exterior is, again, boring. I would recommend adding some snowy mountains, or cliffsides, maybe some frozen waterfalls, trees, etc. As much as I love the snowy themeing, the detailing doesn't really do it justice. Overall, a fun map, with a middle that kind of drags.

 

Map15: With a title like this, how could you possibly go wrong? First off, I was a bit dissappointed the snow theme was thrown away so quickly, I assumed the theming for e2 would be consistent, and that there would be more snow maps, but that's a me problem haha. This map does feel a bit rushed, the barrels o' fun stop being fun quickly, as they aren't really used creatively at all, unlike the end of map11. This map is basically long red hallways filled with barrels, it all feels a bit plain, vanilla, not something I would really expect from this set, its not really out of the box, its an overdone gimmick that didn't impress me as much as previous maps

 

Map19: This map is brutal. I'd say the hardest part is easily right when you press the skull switch, I have to admit, I had to save scum, because I just got stuck there, pinned down by the 3 archviles I barely had any ammo to take out. Later on the map gets a bit easier, one thing I noticed, the spider mastermind was stuck on the raising platform. This is probably the reason my fight with the two cyberdemons was so extended, despite having the bfg. The tracers didn't get close enough since the platform leading to them was so thin and I couldn't risk getting that close to them lest I receive a rocket to the face. I like its difficulty despite its small monster count, but that skull switch is really sketchy progression.

 

Map21: Another low monster count map. The opening is striking! But unfortunately, this doesn't carry on the rest of the map, I thought perhaps this would be an arena fight however you are eventually lead into a room with many PEs. I really didn't bother clearing out the starting area since you are only given a shotgun and chaingun to deal with the barons. I opted to simply escape, and that never came to bite me in the back. The rest of the map evokes monster combo, visually, but only appears to have ripped the library archvile from it, as this map lacks the variety that map has. The flood fill room of pain elementals was obnoxious, but thankfully I had a rocket launcher by then, I didn't bother killing the barons in the exit room, I simply ran around them and exited.

 

Map24: The intro to this map is, again, the best part. I really like the raising platform with the monster teleporting upwards, until finally having a face off at the top. Really neat and creative. Didn't really care for the spider masterminds and arachnotrons in the second half, it just felt too simple not to mention the lack of cover once you get up to where the arachnotrons are, making your only real options infighting, or slowly plonking away at the spiders until they explode. The exit door closing was a nice surprise though.

 

Some closing thoughts: This time around not everything did it for me. I found that map07 fell into the trappings of dead simple and the e3 maps were easily the weakest of the bunch. They aren't as charming as the early stuff, and while I like the low monster counts, it can lead to fights where you are armed with a shotgun, and have to fight several barons and cacos, or even pain elementals. The good stuff was great map11 being the standout this time around, and for the last 3 maps or so, the intros were really striking interesting ideas, visually, or otherwise. I think a number of these maps would do well to be built upon or revamped in some way, as I found that e3 in general was not nearly as charming or fun as the first few maps.

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2 hours ago, Egg Boy said:

All right I finally got around to playing the rest of the maps, as well as the newer ones, and here's some quick thoughts:

Map04: A routine exorcism of a public library, very wolfenstein esque, as in, there's hardly any height variation. Kind of a missed opportunity to have a multi-level super library, think the Grand Archives from Dark Souls 3, or something like that. What's here is fun, but I wish there was something more to it. I was a bit disappointed by the ending as well, I feel that, as cliche as it is, something should happen once you pick up the yellow key. Perhaps the bookshelves around you lower, revealing a nasty trap. On another note: the hilariously large copies of "DOS for dummies" are pretty great. Just another example of the charm of this set.


Map07: Even for vanilla, this opening is plain. Very dull, monochromatic stuff. I like the shape of the baseball arena, but its just so barren of color or detail. Something I could see this WAD doing is starting you in a parking lot, maybe a few doom-cute sector cars about in order to spice up the opener. Once you get into the arena, its exactly what I expected, a pretty simple dead simple (haha) clone. I'm not really a fan of this, as dead simple has run its course, and anything that isn't hyper creative with the concept is a bit boring. I do like the lack of cover. Makes it a bit bullet hell like, once you get in the middle of all of it. However, I will say this is my least favorite map so far. It did remind me of Kama Sutra a bit though, with that one football arena map.

 

Map11: A snow map! I love snow maps. You know what else I love? The buildup and narrative of this map, like when you enter the first structure (which reminds me of the citadel's opener) and the archviles appear in those cages. It felt kind of like the beginning of 14 angrier archviles from Valiant, but a more simplistic. Speaking of those cages, you can walk straight through them for some reason (I imagine so that the archviles can teleport). That opening area is pretty brutal, considering you don't have a ton of ammo and it mostly consisted of me running away until I received the plasma rifle. The crazy maze part was not terribly fun, you're not really in any danger at all especially with the rocket launcher. The last room was cool though, reminded me of Aliens when they can't fire a shot without blowing the entire room up, really creative, and I love the little blast wall you get behind that allows you to watch the carnage. On a more critical note, the exterior is, again, boring. I would recommend adding some snowy mountains, or cliffsides, maybe some frozen waterfalls, trees, etc. As much as I love the snowy themeing, the detailing doesn't really do it justice. Overall, a fun map, with a middle that kind of drags.

 

Map15: With a title like this, how could you possibly go wrong? First off, I was a bit dissappointed the snow theme was thrown away so quickly, I assumed the theming for e2 would be consistent, and that there would be more snow maps, but that's a me problem haha. This map does feel a bit rushed, the barrels o' fun stop being fun quickly, as they aren't really used creatively at all, unlike the end of map11. This map is basically long red hallways filled with barrels, it all feels a bit plain, vanilla, not something I would really expect from this set, its not really out of the box, its an overdone gimmick that didn't impress me as much as previous maps

 

Map19: This map is brutal. I'd say the hardest part is easily right when you press the skull switch, I have to admit, I had to save scum, because I just got stuck there, pinned down by the 3 archviles I barely had any ammo to take out. Later on the map gets a bit easier, one thing I noticed, the spider mastermind was stuck on the raising platform. This is probably the reason my fight with the two cyberdemons was so extended, despite having the bfg. The tracers didn't get close enough since the platform leading to them was so thin and I couldn't risk getting that close to them lest I receive a rocket to the face. I like its difficulty despite its small monster count, but that skull switch is really sketchy progression.

 

Map21: Another low monster count map. The opening is striking! But unfortunately, this doesn't carry on the rest of the map, I thought perhaps this would be an arena fight however you are eventually lead into a room with many PEs. I really didn't bother clearing out the starting area since you are only given a shotgun and chaingun to deal with the barons. I opted to simply escape, and that never came to bite me in the back. The rest of the map evokes monster combo, visually, but only appears to have ripped the library archvile from it, as this map lacks the variety that map has. The flood fill room of pain elementals was obnoxious, but thankfully I had a rocket launcher by then, I didn't bother killing the barons in the exit room, I simply ran around them and exited.

 

Map24: The intro to this map is, again, the best part. I really like the raising platform with the monster teleporting upwards, until finally having a face off at the top. Really neat and creative. Didn't really care for the spider masterminds and arachnotrons in the second half, it just felt too simple not to mention the lack of cover once you get up to where the arachnotrons are, making your only real options infighting, or slowly plonking away at the spiders until they explode. The exit door closing was a nice surprise though.

 

Some closing thoughts: This time around not everything did it for me. I found that map07 fell into the trappings of dead simple and the e3 maps were easily the weakest of the bunch. They aren't as charming as the early stuff, and while I like the low monster counts, it can lead to fights where you are armed with a shotgun, and have to fight several barons and cacos, or even pain elementals. The good stuff was great map11 being the standout this time around, and for the last 3 maps or so, the intros were really striking interesting ideas, visually, or otherwise. I think a number of these maps would do well to be built upon or revamped in some way, as I found that e3 in general was not nearly as charming or fun as the first few maps.

Thanks for the feedback!  I kind of chose some of my weirder maps for the demo and they'll probably make more sense when the full release is available to fill in the gaps.  For example, the snow theme starts near the end of the earth episode.  While inside a building in MAP09, the grass outside changes to snow.  MAP10 and MAP11 continue with the winter theme and MAP12 is the start of the UAC/Hell episode (three UAC maps before Doomguy teleports to Hell for maps 15-23).  So yeah, that snow theme isn't just for one map :D

 

MAP04 is pretty simple which I think works well for an earlier map in the megawad.  It's got a higher monster count, but it's not too difficult.  I do plan to enhance it a little, but I kind of want to keep the smaller size for this one if that makes sense :)

 

MAP07 was actually very close to crashing vanilla.  I had to remove some minor details to prevent visplane overflows.  The outside could use some extra details, but inside the stadium is too risky.  I fully understand your thoughts on it being a dead simple clone.  I know a lot of players on this forum have experienced countless Dead Simple clones over the years, but I still wanted to make my own version because for me, Dead Simple maps are still fun :D.  I pretty much turned it into a more hectic infighting map, but the basic Dead Simple concept is still there.  I guess this one isn't for everyone due to the type of map it is, but is it at least good as a Dead Simple clone? :D.  One thing I definitely got right was the steps that raise up when all Arachnotrons are dead.  There's an extra step to prevent the first step from raising too high for Doomguy to reach it XD

 

MAP11 was created before I had ever played or seen Plutonia's "Hunted".  I'd heard about an Arch-Vile only map and decided to make my own MAP11 with that concept, but nothing else was borrowed from "Hunted" because I knew absolutely nothing about that map at the time (I wanted to finish TNT first before starting Plutonia).  The glowing Arch-Vile maze isn't meant to be very difficult, but more of a weird, confusing room that's kind of silly (you think you can have the BFG, but not yet :D).  The outside is something I will consider enhancing if possible.  I just managed to finally make this map 100% safe in vanilla so I need to be careful (Arch-Vile jumps could potentially cause a visplane overflow if it happened outside).  Also, the cages you walked through are not "impassible" because they need to escape them once the invisible walls lower :D.  So yeah, I'll see what I can do about adding a little more detail.  By the way, did you shoot those barrels and get very confused?  I am evil :O :O :D.  I'll be uploading a video of this map soon, so if you want to hear me explain the overly complicated traps I designed, check it out :D

 

MAP15 is pretty much a joke map I made that's like a more extreme version of Barrels o' Fun.  Just like Dead Simple, this style is still fun for me (I haven't played that many fan maps yet because I'm still pretty new to custom DOOM content).  I just make whatever I find enjoyable and I don't release a map if I get sick of it after multiple playthroughs (I play every map at least 100 times so I'm always trying to make sure they meet my own standards).  This map is short and designed to be as ridiculous as possible.  I think the gimmicks are pretty cool, but again, I understand your opinions regarding this style.

 

MAP19 is a crazy stealth mission I came up with that forces the player to really play it safe.  Yes, this isn't a map for everyone (I was expecting more negative feedback than I actually received though, so I guess I succeeded at creating a fun, unique challenge that some players will really enjoy).  This map can be beaten consistently once you discover what's safe and what's not.  I'll be uploading a walkthrough within the next few days if you want to see my preferred strategy for this map (I took a few days to beat it after making it, but I love that because I enjoy such a unique challenge :D).  This map is brutal for the unprepared, but if players give it some time, they can master the epic stealth mission :D.  Also, one sector is incorrectly tagged as a secret.  Only the sector with the BFG is supposed to be a secret.  This other sector will be fixed in the full release or an update for this demo if I decide there are enough other bugs to fix :D.  By the way, what was it that made the skull switch so difficult?  You're referring to the one by the Hell Knight and two Cacodemons, right?

 

MAP21 is a map that I simply couldn't resist making XD.  I love Pain Elementals because I think they look funny so this map uses the Lost Soul Limit to make them seem harmless at first, until the end when the last 15 are freed.  If you escape that building as quickly as possible, you can usually run to the ledge and go nuts with the plasma rifle and rocket launcher to take out all of the Pain Elementals.  You made a very good point though.  Originally, I was planning to add more sections to this map, but it ended up being much shorter because I wasn't sure what direction to take it after my dream Pain Elemental trap.  Do you have any suggestions?  I'm definitely keeping that trap because I simply must (very evil XD), but a proper final room where the exit switch is would be great.  I just don't know what I should do with it.  I'm glad you liked that opening room by the way :D.

 

MAP24's Spider Masterminds were intended to be hard since in DOOM 1 and 2, their appearances aren't too threatening.  This is why ammo is intentionally limited and it's actually impossible to have a BFG for this map without cheating (in the full release, the player will die before the boss battle in Hell for MAP23).  The lack of cover by the Arachnotrons shouldn't be an issue.  You can take the Spider Masterminds out by hiding around the base and shooting whenever you have a chance.  The rocket launcher is placed in a way that makes the player be very careful if they want to pick it up without having a Spider Mastermind get in their way.  There is enough ammo to kill everything (I've tested this), but I rarely give the player the best weapons and plentiful ammo for most situations.  I try to make the player work hard to get the tools that'll help them take down the toughest enemies.  Regarding the ledge, you can actually run up there while the Spider Mastermind by the stairs is distracted by an Arachnotron.  I've managed to do a pacifist run three times, so that ledge isn't too dangerous if you time it right :D

 

As I receive more feedback regarding the new maps, I'll be able to determine what I should do with each of them. Map design is subjective, but I want my maps to be enjoyable for as many players as possible.  However, I still want my weird, crazy ideas for some of them, so I'm aiming for a balance of traditional style DOOM gameplay and my own gameplay styles for the full release.  As always, I greatly appreciate your feedback and support!  I'll be sure to consider everything you've mentioned the next time I open these maps in Doom Builder :)

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7 hours ago, Samuel Slayer said:

@DCG Retrowave What's that house texture pack and can I use it?

Most of the house textures are photos I took that were downscaled and adjusted for DOOM's aspect ratio stretching.  For example, the LCD TV, CRT monitor, and stove are things in my real house.  A few textures were drawn using GIMP (the paint on the walls for example).  Feel free to use them for your own project and if possible, please mention that they came from DOOM 87 :D

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An updated version of the demo will be released within the next few days.  I've been making several improvements, starting with some enhancements for MAP07: The Ball Game.  Thank you @Egg Boy for suggesting that the outside area could be improved because I have done that now :D

 

Current version

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_042339.png.8709eec9926ffe6ef4793140f96ff086.png

 

Next update

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_042527.png.ab4949933056117565337ca238d36797.png

 

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_042549.png.bc2bb369b939174acf161fcd3b8cbbf4.png

 

The Mancubi were moved to the wall.  The outfielders are now three more barons, so their team no longer needs three Mancubi!  The Mancubi are just there to harass the players :D.  Also, the Hell Knights are their own team with one of them currently batting and the others are waiting to run for home plate :D

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_042624.png.b619b7eca605077cfd42a09dd736e334.png

 

Some Pinkies now come to say hi before you exit

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_043231.png.85fc41442764a49c2332ab2842b8303d.png

 

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_043243.png.618ffcac56b51595bab24845e89f480e.png

 

The secret Arch-Vile now teleports over here when he sees you

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_043356.png.44cae83df8229ebc50b7af4c3c7e363d.png

 

More enhancements like this are coming soon for most of the other maps!  Also, that TV screen displaying the baseball game took me 2 hours and 45 minutes to make :O

Edited by DCG Retrowave

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8 minutes ago, DCG Retrowave said:

An updated version of the demo will be released within the next few days.  I've been making several improvements, starting with some enhancements for MAP07: The Ball Game.  Thank you @Egg Boy for suggesting that the outside area could be improved because I have done that now :D

My lord that looks amazing! Much better than the original.

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1 minute ago, Egg Boy said:

My lord that looks amazing! Much better than the original.

I'm glad you approve!  Now that I've made these changes, I can't understand why I didn't think to do that sooner!  Of course, it's still a custom Dead Simple, but there's a little more gameplay now thanks to this outside area.  It's also got more personality (Hell Knight and Baron wearing baseball caps :D).  Overall, I think this is much more enjoyable now :D

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The mall in the current demo is pretty cool

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_215704.png.8d3fb492a4570089e9d4c744e57a13a5.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_215713.png.23013635886d4dc12c6ba29fc6fc42eb.pngScreenshot_Doom_20200908_215719.png.40b025275175fca9f7d50a1003efdefc.pngScreenshot_Doom_20200908_215731.png.90f2989588eeacc71242dcd5647866fe.png

 

 

 

But now it's even cooler :D

 

A sign has been added for the candy store that the Arch-Viles have taken over :D

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_215913.png.f54eebd4f81cb7ec5914915ca810e004.png

Tables and benches are now at the food court!

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_215943.png.e6d90249444429e163078a6cf5ea6f79.png

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_220023.png.658d1dc6261aefc7813418219576080a.pngScreenshot_Doom_20200908_220034.png.b23704ca87572465e52e92a657710302.png

The bookstore is promoting a very nice book :D

Screenshot_Doom_20200908_220234.png.1425cfd457791940617d3c3581bf2421.png

This enhanced version will be released in the next demo update very soon!

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