Database Error 2.0 Testers Needed

[Database Error]

Hey you!

I'm reworking my maps and in need of playtesters to provide thoughts and feedback

I'm gonna need:
*difficulty testers: report how difficult the map is: demon placement & variety, weaponry & ammunition, movement etc..

*visual feedback: provide feedback on the size, texturing, layout etc..

*general thoughts: provide selective feedback: gameplay flow, things you like, things you don't like, things you would change, improvement suggestions etc..

For the time being, i'm looking to have individual rooms/sections tested, not a whole map.. yet

notes:

- Communication through discord (DatabaseError#4875)

- Zandronum & GZDoom compatible

 

Stay Safe & Have a Wonderful Holiday :)

 

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Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Download Link: https://allfearthesentinel.net/zandronum/download.php?file=databaseerror1.0.wad

 

Wad Info

Spoiler

Wad: DatabaseError
Requirements: OpenGL, Freelook
Gameplay: Singleplayer
Editor: GZDoom Builder 1.14
Map Format: Doom (Doom in Hexen format)
Maps: MAP01 ROBOT, MAP02 OLD FRIEND
Build Time: 3 years
Release Data: 08/08/2020
Ports Tested: GZDoom 4.3.2.0
IWAD & Music: Doom II
Textures: Realm667, Crusher
Sprites: Realm667, Madcat
Playtesting: dml!, redw4rr10r, mactabut, xdwn, Crusher

Screenshots

Spoiler

 

Additional Read: Map History

Spoiler

                              Map 1 - Robot

 

The oldest version of Map01 goes back to July 2017 as Map02 that was an attempt
to make a nice-looking-automap view similar to my second ever map, facemap, that
looked like a screaming face with a crown.

The automap view for Map01 is a robot somewhat inspired by the film Wall-E.

The map looks like a still robot with two acid tanks being poured in its head.

Further developments of the map (Q4 2018) had changes to the amount and types
of monsters, as well as a full rework to the robot and gameplay pathing.
The acid tanks were then changed to lab flasks, while the main theme of the map
stays the same in addition to dynlights being used.

The map is a very small easy-to-edit project with only shotgun to shoot with,
as well as 5 secret areas with access to soulsphere and
very limited ammo chaingun to face Zombiemen, Shotgun guys, Hell knights, and
Chaingunners.

The map ends with an elevator that lowers into Map02 to add a feel of
seamlessness.

                              Map 2 - Old Friend
                              
The work for Map02 started on April 2019, but it developped way beyond what it
was intended to look like.

Essentially there had to be a tripple floored open medium-sized main hall that
connects several paths and locked doors in an attempt to make Map02 feel
more cohesive and complex in comparison to Map01, not to say Map01 was not loved
but definitely to create something a little different.

Having Map02 started with the same texture theme, the two maps quickly asked to
be connected even if as slightest as, what it seems, an elevator lowering from
one to the next.

By that time, A new weapon had to be added. At that point, Map01 being what it
is re-influenced the idea of the Automap visuals, that's where sketching of the
Super Shotgun came into play and quickly turned into a little map section where
the player gets the weapon. That is also where the title stems from.

As the map started getting into development, it no longer felt necessary to keep
some elements and rules used in the first map, but it was important to keep some
through so the maps don't completely disconnect and transition somewhat smoothly

The map was blown completely out of proportion past mid-development and had to
be split into another part. A big effort was put into staying inside the big
space already created and fill in as much detail suitable.

Revenants were finally added as a finale, as well as lost souls, pinkies, and
by the very end archviles eventually. Few secrets are scattered around along
with a heavy weapon to help clear the waves.

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Database Error : Rework

[Walter confetti]

Looks pretty cool!

[Database Error]

17 hours ago, Walter confetti said:

Looks pretty cool!

 

Thanks :) How does it play?

[Walter confetti]

I didn't download it yet, sorry.

[Stabbey]

- Shotgunner, Chaingunner, Hell Knight. Shotgunner, Chaingunner, Hell Knight. Shotgunner, Chaingunner, Hell Knight. Shotgunner, Chaingunner, Hell Knight.

- No matter how good a level looks, no matter how well you use 3D bridges and platforms, if the gameplay sucks, the level is going to suck. This wad is full of strange and questionable decisions.

 

- Did I simply miss the second door in level 1's starting room? I guess I did, so I suppose it's a "secret", but it doesn't seem like it should be if I simply overlooked it.

- I got two of the secrets, but couldn't find any of the others, or any hints, and the lack of radiation suits meant I didn't feel like exploring for more.

- Why is a tiny metal lip blocking me? It's shorter than the stairs I climb, yet I cannot pass over it. Why do I need to enter the slime at only very specific points?

- The Megasphere secret was nice and elaborate to unlock.

- Shotgunner, Chaingunner, Hell Knight. Shotgunner, Chaingunner, Hell Knight. This is repetitive to the point of boredom. The routine is the same. I use the door for cover to kill the hitscanners, then kill the Hell Knights without issue. Boring. It's the same composition over and over and over again. Throwing Pinkies in eventually only makes it Shotgunner, Chaingunner, Hell Knight, Pinky. Not much improvement.

- I could swear that the poison in one room where there were chaingunners above and below (most of which killed themselves while I was wandering off elsewhere) did not hurt me when I walked on it to get the chainguns. If that is the case, it's bad design to have the same surface be harmful sometimes and safe others.

- I made it partway through level 2, to just past the Yellow Key door before I stopped. Too much repetitive combat.

 

[Database Error]

i humbly thank you for taking time to write your feedback :)

 

im glad you appreciate how good the levels look and my usage of 3d floors. moving on to some issues:

 

Secrets: there are many secrets in doom that are quite obvious that i find myself going into them, and few others that i go like: but how on earth was i supposed to know? some finds look like they were built to be secrets but aren't. i have seen many players wallhump for secret hunting. so i tried to hide few secrets in the space i had to work with. And, if i put radiation suits everywhere then that defeats the purpose of placing acid in the first place. if you are that interested in secret hunting, i suggest you save & load if u must look in the acid

 

gameplay & demon placement: i noted how you repeatedly pointed out how boring it was placing the same demons class or combat pattern. these are the first 2 levels, and i wanted to progress the levels gradually; demons weapons and difficulty-wise. when i made the room with pinkies, i was aiming toward 2016 style of gameplay where you get locked into rooms, kill everything, doors unlock, move on to the next room for basically the whole game with few exceptions like Kadingir where the level is more cohesive notably in its first half. i think introducing pinkies here is perfect to cause an infight as you circle around, i don't think this room is similar in gameplay to any of the previous ones, so i dont quite understand your complaint there. i've added lost souls (you would've made a longer post had u continued LOL) revs, and archies toward the end too.

 

infighting demons & damaging floors: i do realize the chaingunners gun each other down, but do they not do that in the original doom games? you also called it strange how some acid floors hurt and others don't, but again, isn't that the case in plutonia for example? since that place in particular had loads of chaingun pickups, i figured it would be unnecessary to have a damaging floor as there is enough already everywhere else with no radiation suits

 

Conclusion: there were few things i had in mind already as i was finishing up the wad (like the lip blockage) but i figured i could leave that for future releases. in other words, i kinda rushed the release and gave myself a release date deadline to pressure myself into actually putting something out because i map on and off for years but never released anything, in the end, i realized there is always a place for improvement in everything, but that doesn't mean i should never love my work as i did all these years.

 

thats why im glad to get your feedback and try to improve in the future <3

Edited September 5, 2020 by Database Error

[Stabbey]

- It's fine that I didn't get all the secrets, I'm just saying that I didn't find some.
- I understand the concept of gradual monster progression. The problem is not introducing Pinkies in that matter, it's that but you fight 110+ of the same three monster types in MAP 02 before the first pinkies appear. In addition, the winning tactic for far too many all of those early fights is peek-and-shoot until all the hitscanners are dead. Hide behind cover, plink at the hitscanners until they're dead, kill the helpless Hell Knights. It's too much of the same stuff over and over again.

- The next room after the pinkies - the Yellow Key room - was a giant open room full of yet more hitscanners, but this time from a LOT of different angles.

- Pinkies, Imps, Pistol-using Former Humans, Lost Souls, Spectres, Cacodemons, and sometimes even Revenants - all of those are low-tier enemies no tougher than a Hell Knight that could be used in various combinations to keep the combat feeling fresh. Introduce more of those early to add variety into the combat. There's too much time spent on only those three enemies before a fourth type gets introduced.

 

- If Plutonia switched which surfaces were harmful and which were safe in the same level, that's a fault, not a credit. Your map uses the same texture for both harmful and safe surfaces in the same level. How to tell the difference? You can't. That's bad design, even if Plutonia did it too. If you want to communicate that the player can safely walk on that surface, use a different texture, like water.

 

- For the case of the lip blockage, a more typical thing to do would be to lower the pit sectors to below 24 units of the lip so you need to step out at a certain point. That has the same effect as the lip, but it's easy to understand from looking at it. Impassible lines are not something which intuitively make sense in this situation.

[Lucky_Edie]

Bland starting box room could use detailing. Second room is a bigger open box. The hub room confuses me as they're not marked to show which can be opened so I had to try every one just wasting my time.

A 'secret' that's just a door for a stim pack and box of shells. Needs to be removed and just placed somewhere else.

A symmetrical room with the same enemy placement? Out of ideas? People love symmetry but its awful for doom maps. As it gets boring.

 

The floor detailing is really good.

 

I didn't bother killing a single hell knight, I have better things to do than to kill 2 dozen 'doors with health' with a single barrel shotgun.

 

Starting the second map and I've decided to use god mode. A ton of hit scan and I'm too lazy to enable mouse look to pick them off from afar.

 

So far I've only seen the same 3 enemies and I'm not going to spend any time killing this many hell knights.

These maps desperately need a mix up of enemies and weapons, the normal shotgun is so bad compared to the SSG that it really takes away from my enjoyment.

The health and ammo seem to be clumped together rather than spread out over the map and the lack of blue armour is killing me with this hit scan spam.

 

However the 2nd map has a great layout and looks pretty damn good, with different item / thing placement this could be an amazing map. Few imps, revs/cacos and the SSG/Rocket launcher? That'd be so sweet.

 

No idea how to get the yellow key and I feel stuck, did I miss a switch? Screenshot:

 

Edit: Used "kill monsters" to make the hell knights quiet and it opened the door, im still not killing them. Will play the rest of the map and update.

Got the yellow key, fell down, had to go all the way around.

Got the red key, fell down, had to go all the way around.

Got lost again, gave up. I'm too stupid to work out where to go in this multi level gzdoom map.

 

Edit 2: went back and reached the exit, still using god mode. Have you ever beaten that final room without saves and without the invuln? It seems a bit much to me. I hit the switches with infinite height and ran to the exit in just a few seconds. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Lucky_Edie

[Stabbey]

This article might be of help for future endeavors.

 

 

 

[Suitepee]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/739353118

 

Playtesting starts at 3:46:00.

 

Highly promising on the visual/3D front. Highly inconsistent and lacking quality control in everything else. I ended up roasting the 5 playtesters mentioned in the text file for not pointing out some of the obvious flaws in this wad; my apologies for being a bunch of casuals (by the mappers' own words). ;)

 

Honestly though, I expect your next mapping instalment will be a lot better. There's good mapping potential here for sure.

[Stabbey]

On 9/5/2020 at 4:15 PM, Database Error said:

DatabaseErr0r:i like a whiny players when they overlook the ssg room

 

Wow. Blaming the player for not knowing the map they're playing for the first time.

 

You offered the player two directions to go. The super shotgun was in one of them. The rest of the level was the other. You did not force the player to enter the SSG room. Players cannot read your mind. They do not know your map.

 

If you really want a player to have a weapon for a certain part of the level, you need to either provide the weapon on that path, or make sure the player has to get it before entering that path.

[Database Error]

Topic Updated