GzDOOM-1 - GZDoom community project experiment - project abandoned

[EpicTyphlosion]

3 hours ago, CBM said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/clijr76evo39xg8/GZDoom-1_v0.05.pk3?dl=0

 

v.0.05

 

added exit to map 2

added map 3 and 4

 

I'm looking through and there's no MAP03 or MAP04

[CBM]

4 hours ago, EpicTyphlosion said:

I'm looking through and there's no MAP03 or MAP04

sorry about that... here they are

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mfwe2lyo253ryg2/GZDoom-1_v0.06.pk3?dl=0

 

new version 0.06

[CBM]

6 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

While I like the idea of this project much more than Doom -2, I am also going to share my opinion/concerns.

 

The biggest one is the fact that 3d models on their own don't necessarily make a map better. In fact, I have never seen a 3d model in GZDoom that looks remotely attractive, outside of Brutal Fate, which has significantly more budget/support than this project. Sprites, to most people, are much more attractive and fit the engine/Doom feeling much better. Old SNES games with their pixelated graphics are much easier on the eyes than low-poly PSX games.

Sprites avoid the uncanny valley completely.

 

That Anubis model looks pretty good in the screenshot, as most 3d models do, but when you put them in motion, they usually just look extremely awkward and often times hamper gameplay. I remember using a 3d model pack on the old Doomsday engine (iirc) and they made the game not only an eyesore, but also much harder to play. The collision detection felt severely off all of the sudden, and the models looked like they were moving in slow motion due to poor animation.

 

Voxels are a bit better, but they are hard to work with and still rarely look as appropriate as good ol' sprites. And when you try to voxelize every enemy/decoration or make 3d models out of them, that costs a lot time that could be used to make good maps, which is the most important aspect of a good wad. It also puts a strain on the engine and requires a decent rig to play without lag in higher resolutions, which is something you don't want happening if your goal is to have a nice looking advanced set of maps.

 

And then, if you have multiple people working on multiple models and voxels, you have the challenge of making sure everything gels, and you're going to have models and voxels with varying degrees of quality. Which takes more time and effort to iron out.

 

Then you have the problem of making sure the models and voxels look good when different forms of lighting are applied. Just because a model looks good under neutral lighting doesn't mean it will look good in a dark room, or a brightly lit room, or under colored lighting.

 

In short, having a bunch of voxels and models running about your map doesn't mean it is going to make your map better, or even more attractive than a map with a bunch of sprites running around.

 

3d models and voxels have been a possibility in the engine for a long time now, yet they are rare for the following reasons:

 

1. Time consuming to make and animate

2. Strain on GPU/engine

3. Most people perfer sprites

 

It is going to be a bigger challenge finding enough people willing to participate in a project like this, because it is a lot of work, and because many people just won't like working around the rules here. This is why you see more maps being made for Doom than Quake.

You have some valid points...and that is also why I decided to go back to the mapping aspect of gzdoom-1

 

but I personally much prefer psx 3d graphics to sprites and that is why we should avoid making new enemies and also avoid new decorations if possible... that way... packs can be made afterwards... some people could do a sprite pack afterwards and I could do a 3D pack... then in the end... people can play using either stock monster + decoration sprites or use one of the packs to change the sprites to either an alternate set of sprites or a set of 3D models

 

however textures are universal so we can always add more of those. voxels seems to be useful mostly in special situations... like with the 3d moving floor for example.

 

if we mainly use vanilla monsters and decorations then they can always get a new look after the map pack itself is complete.. the chair is a special case because it needed to be replaced with something that was not a sprite

 

also... if a fair amount of animation frames are created then a model can look good and move smooth... however... it would help ALOT if the gzdoom engine could allow one to turn on smooth transitions between animations for a particular model

 

by the way....how come there is not a million tools already that can read an animated 3d model and produce sprites based on that? seems like it would be a pretty easy thing to do

Edited October 23, 2020 by CBM

[CBM]

new

 

version 0.07

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/45etgx0yl4rrdh4/GZDoom-1_v0.07.pk3?dl=0

 

bugfixes... map01 texture fix, map02 exit fix, map 3 and 4 switched places ( map 4 still incomplete but atleast it is last now )

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

1 hour ago, CBM said:

You have some valid points...and that is also why I decided to go back to the mapping aspect of gzdoom-1

 

but I personally much prefer psx 3d graphics to sprites and that is why we should avoid making new enemies and also avoid new decorations if possible... that way... packs can be made afterwards... some people could do a sprite pack afterwards and I could do a 3D pack... then in the end... people can play using either stock monster + decoration sprites or use one of the packs to change the sprites to either an alternate set of sprites or a set of 3D models

 

however textures are universal so we can always add more of those. voxels seems to be useful mostly in special situations... like with the 3d moving floor for example.

 

if we mainly use vanilla monsters and decorations then they can always get a new look after the map pack itself is complete.. the chair is a special case because it needed to be replaced with something that was not a sprite

A model or voxel here or there is alright, if necessary. But I still think what makes GzDoom great is that you have more mapping capabilities. 3D floors, custom enemies, reflections, more advanced lighting, huge and cinematic maps, boss fights, new weapons, etc. That's what makes ZDoom special, so that's what I would focus on if I were in charge of the project. Alas, I am not, so the decision is yours. But I feel like I'm speaking for a good majority of people when I say that 3d models and voxels aren't what makes a good GzDoom map. Good luck on the project, whatever route you choose to take. But the whole thing seems indecisive. Even if you include the models/voxels in a separate pack, you're still using time and energy for it, and it's something the majority of people won't use much unless it is really good stuff. Plus, like I said, it's confusing. I'd focus less on mod compatibility and more on creating GzDoom stuff. I'm picturing something along the lines of a Tormentor667 mapset that utilizes all of GzDoom's unique features. Having a wad centered around GzDoom but only using vanilla weapons and enemies seems like it's defeating the purpose. Custom weapons and enemies are one of the cornerstones of a memorable GzDoom map.

[CBM]

10 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

A model or voxel here or there is alright, if necessary. But I still think what makes GzDoom great is that you have more mapping capabilities. 3D floors, custom enemies, reflections, more advanced lighting, huge and cinematic maps, boss fights, new weapons, etc. That's what makes ZDoom special, so that's what I would focus on if I were in charge of the project. Alas, I am not, so the decision is yours. But I feel like I'm speaking for a good majority of people when I say that 3d models and voxels aren't what makes a good GzDoom map. Good luck on the project, whatever route you choose to take. But the whole thing seems indecisive. Even if you include the models/voxels in a separate pack, you're still using time and energy for it, and it's something the majority of people won't use much unless it is really good stuff. Plus, like I said, it's confusing. I'd focus less on mod compatibility and more on creating GzDoom stuff. I'm picturing something along the lines of a Tormentor667 mapset that utilizes all of GzDoom's unique features. Having a wad centered around GzDoom but only using vanilla weapons and enemies seems like it's defeating the purpose. Custom weapons and enemies are one of the cornerstones of a memorable GzDoom map.

it seems to me that custom sprites based enemies and weapons are more of a BOOM thing than a GZDoom thing

 

keeping the monsters and weapons vanilla would make tactics easier, since players do not need to account for a monster acting totally different...

 

however... after all maps are done... one could always make final releases where

the final release uses new sprites for weapons and enemies and

one where I provided 3d models instead of sprites

 

all weapons and enemies in doom-1 are just sprite replacements with a few exceptions like the dragon with mega health

[CBM]

21 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

While I like the idea of this project much more than Doom -2, I am also going to share my opinion/concerns.

 

The biggest one is the fact that 3d models on their own don't necessarily make a map better. In fact, I have never seen a 3d model in GZDoom that looks remotely attractive, outside of Brutal Fate, which has significantly more budget/support than this project. Sprites, to most people, are much more attractive and fit the engine/Doom feeling much better. Old SNES games with their pixelated graphics are much easier on the eyes than low-poly PSX games.

Sprites avoid the uncanny valley completely.

 

sonic robo blast 2 begs to differ

http://www.srb2.org/download/

 

I am uncertain what engine srb2 is made upon but the md3 models looks just as good in GZDoom, I know because I have played around with the 3D sonic model pack in both GZDoom and SRB2

 

it turns out srb2 is based on the doom legacy engine

Edited October 23, 2020 by CBM

[EpicTyphlosion]

MAP03 could use some more detailing, and MAP04 feels way too cramped. I'll have to work on those

[Walter confetti]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/lqwpt20sg1uwn27/GZDoom-1_v0.08.pk3/file

 

Added MAP05, fixed MAPINFO

[CBM]

map 5 has many nice things going for it. I really dig the glass floor

 

reserving map 05 - to make all the liquids 'swimable'

 

[CBM]

1 hour ago, CBM said:

map 5 has many nice things going for it. I really dig the glass floor

 

reserving map 05 - to make all the liquids 'swimable'

 

 

done, v.0.09

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tDYPwiW_UA_dTvtzcrgQPkStSr45B0oT/view?usp=sharing

 

pics

 

 

the sludge is darker in game now because I changed the brightness to 120 after taking the screenshots

Edited October 24, 2020 by CBM

[Walter confetti]

Really neat!

[CBM]

2 minutes ago, Walter confetti said:

Really neat!

Thanks :)

 

currently it is darker ingame ... the shots are using brightness 160 in the sludge but in the uploaded map it is 120

 

still not sure if the sludge should be brightness 255... here are some shots with brightness 255

 

[CBM]

added 2 new maps

 

a pyramid... that needs work

 

and a castle that needs work

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13E2hrsRCkuazIYyvzYi4BQiknN8Zc3Ws/view?usp=sharing

 

v.0.10

[EpicTyphlosion]

V0.10a

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SzL7BIYNxmXUU84pj-QzBrwwJNPHsfun/view?usp=sharing

 

General changes

- Fixed MAPINFO so MAP01 doesn't exit to MAP06

[URROVA]

reserving MAP02

 

doubt: Can i add some shaders? I have some :)

[CBM]

14 minutes ago, URROVA said:

reserving MAP02

 

doubt: Can i add some shaders? I have some :)

ok, yes you may add shaders :)

 

also.. it will give me a chance to study shaders... from what I just read about them, they are quite cool

Edited October 24, 2020 by CBM

[URROVA]

Release 0.11: 

• Continued MAP02: when you push the switch, you active the ship's lasers, but another ship starts to attack you (the another ship currently is a METAL2 textured plain wall, later i have to replace it with a ship sprite). The plane crashes in a space base inspired on negativeone's MAP06. The entrace leads to an empty room, so someone can continue the map from here.
• Added some textures from nightmare textures #1
• Added two shaders: One for underwater and a negative shader that i made (the negative shader is super simple).

Link: https://mega.nz/file/jX5yBLJD#fkB7dj6tNQ7sSCL3t4h7T9cvFXDkaNZnmI_CV-Jxbhk

 

Edit:

The negative shader actives when the CVar "Shader" is equal to 1. You can change it throught SetCVar, with SET on the console, etc

Edited October 25, 2020 by URROVA

[EpicTyphlosion]

Yeah... this is probably dead

[URROVA]

14 minutes ago, EpicTyphlosion said:

Yeah... this is probably dead

yes... the last "commit" was mine xD

[CBM]

1 hour ago, URROVA said:

yes... the last "commit" was mine xD

I was waiting for a possible 3rd person to make some contribution to this project. But yes... if you and me have to do this whole thing ourselves, then its dead, since it would defeat the point of this project.

 

Atleast I still have my solo projects such as After Dawn and GZFreeDOOM

 

Not easy to lead -1 projects when most people on doomworld seems to only want to do boom compatible community projects :D

 

by the way.. all deadlines suspended for this project.. it will get done whenever - if at all

[CBM]

I will bide my time and see what happens... if it remains to be of no interest, then the project will close down sometime during the first half of 2021

 

same goes for dosdoom -1

 

--------------------

 

I can't help but feel disappointed and it negatively affects my will to complete other things like gzfreedoom and after dawn negatively

 

however after dawn will likely be completed since it will combine many elements that have never before been combined in a gzdoom mod, thus making it pretty important to complete and of higher priority than gzfreedoom and dosdoom-1 and gzdoom-1

 

I will not waste any more time on gzdoom-1 or dosdoom-1... until I again see some substantial evidence,

that people on this forum gives a damn about any of those -1 projects...

 

I refuse to do 'community projects' on my own - then I might as well make them solo projects

 

And If nobody wants to help with gzfreedoom then it will have to wait for the completion of after dawn,

at which point it will once again be a personal solo project and without anything else than the

3D'ification of the original freedoom levels... since one can always throw a whatever 3D monsterpack on top

 

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by CBM

[AtticTelephone]

Maybe it's the appeal of being able to contribute both big and small, and not being obligated to do ACS, make 3d platforms, custom monsters and 3d models, you could add a medikit somewhere in a random map, and it would count as a count as a change. Doom -1 could have had only vanilla textures in vanilla format, the only reason why it wasn't was so that people could use more functions, like voodoo doll conveyors. The problem with GZDoom is that people are obligated to use the special functions, but not many people know about them either, so a GZDoom project is harder to handle than a vanilla or a Boom project is. Doom -1 wouldn't have succeeded if it was in GZDoom format, although a lot of people for some reason recommended changing to ZDoom format, which made me put more restrictions on it.

[CBM]

9 minutes ago, AtticTelephone said:

Maybe it's the appeal of being able to contribute both big and small, and not being obligated to do ACS, make 3d platforms, custom monsters and 3d models, you could add a medikit somewhere in a random map, and it would count as a count as a change. Doom -1 could have had only vanilla textures in vanilla format, the only reason why it wasn't was so that people could use more functions, like voodoo doll conveyors. The problem with GZDoom is that people are obligated to use the special functions, but not many people know about them either, so a GZDoom project is harder to handle than a vanilla or a Boom project is. Doom -1 wouldn't have succeeded if it was in GZDoom format, although a lot of people for some reason recommended changing to ZDoom format, which made me put more restrictions on it.

nobody is forced to add acs, 3d monsters, 3d platforms, custom monsters, 3d models etc...

 

anybody can add a medkit on a map and it would count as a contribution, but as soon as a project is gzdoom then most people backs off

 

I have on many occasions said I will handle anything 3d related if needed... I added a voxel seat to the space ship, I said I would do a 3d pack for this once the levels are done...

 

but people just want boom maps

 

not even vanilla maps... just boom maps

 

might as well rename this site to boomworld

[AtticTelephone]

1 minute ago, CBM said:

nobody is forced to add acs, 3d monsters, 3d platforms, custom monsters, 3d models etc...

 

anybody can add a medkit on a map and it would count as a contribution, but as soon as a project is gzdoom then most people backs off

 

I have on many occasions said I will handle anything 3d related if needed... I added a voxel seat to the space ship, I said I would do a 3d pack for this once the levels are done...

 

but people just want boom maps

 

not even vanilla maps... just boom maps

 

might as well rename this site to boomworld

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is obligated to put in fancy stuff with GZDoom format. If you think this site is so focused on Boom, why don't you go to the ZDoom Forums? I never said they were forced, I said they were OBLIGATED. Anyone and...

is obligated to put in those fancy GZDoom things when it's GZDoom, alright?

[CBM]

6 minutes ago, AtticTelephone said:

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is obligated to put in fancy stuff with GZDoom format. If you think this site is so focused on Boom, why don't you go to the ZDoom Forums? I never said they were forced, I said they were OBLIGATED. Anyone and...

is obligated to put in those fancy GZDoom things when it's GZDoom, alright?

I would, but the zdoom forums are even more abandoned than doomworld

[AtticTelephone]

1 minute ago, CBM said:

I would, but the zdoom forums are even more abandoned than doomworld

Alright then, also, do you know how many good Boom/MBF WADs there are? Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Sunder, Sunlust, and don't forget, we like vanilla and limit-removing too, it's not "Boomworld" like you say, Alien Vendetta, Scythe, Scythe 2, Requiem, Hell Revealed. Maybe it's because there are so many good vanilla, Boom, MBF and limit-removing WADs compared to the few good GZDoom projects that stand out that we prefer things like Boom, since Boom offers variety, but not complete variety, making it so that you have to get creative with the restrictions. Theoretically, vanilla and limit-removing make it so that you have to be creative to hide the technological disadvantages of the Doom engine.

[Gez]

2 hours ago, AtticTelephone said:

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is obligated to put in fancy stuff with GZDoom format.

No.

[AtticTelephone]

57 minutes ago, Gez said:

No.

Yes.