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Kokrovan

Subjective vision of new generations

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4 hours ago, hybridial said:

Nah, this may have held some truth if talking about prior decades, but you just have to look at things the way they are now in culture to realise that things have gone to complete shit.

Hollywood and the AAA gaming industry being shitty overall has always been true though. Shameless cash grabs in the gaming industry? Look no further than LJN, and all their garbage movie tie-ins with 0 gameplay value. "Kids know dick" seemed to be the guiding spirit for a while there! The Film industry hasn't always been shit? Look at fucking Pluto Nash from 18 whopping years ago, hell, look at the whole MST3K backlog. These industries have just as much trash as ever, which is to say, they've always had more than any one person could possibly comprehend!

 

There are genuinely good shows coming out these days, I know because I've seen some of them, even if they are a minority. In the "golden era" there was also a ton of shlock being released. The only difference is that no one remembers the garbage... Because it's garbage! As soon as a a wide number of people have access to any medium, music, television whatever, you're going to see a bunch of "shitty art" being made, doubly so when it can be lucrative.

 

I also hate when people say things like "modern culture has completely gone to shit because there are bad movies", though to be fair it doesn't seem like you're saying that, but I hear it all the time and the OP seems to be saying it. The era of slow internet, before that the era of substantially less safe cars, before that more awful things like women and minorities not being able to vote and yadda yadda.. It just gets worse and worse the further you go back! It should be learned from but not idolized.

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2 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Hollywood and the AAA gaming industry being shitty overall has always been true though. Shameless cash grabs in the gaming industry? Look no further than LJN, and all their garbage movie tie-ins with 0 gameplay value. "Kids know dick" seemed to be the guiding spirit for a while there! The Film industry hasn't always been shit? Look at fucking Pluto Nash from 18 whopping years ago, hell, look at the whole MST3K backlog. These industries have just as much trash as ever, which is to say, they've always had more than any one person could possibly comprehend!

 

I don't know about that really, I wouldn't deny there's always been bad stuff, but what I'm getting at is there is a genuine lack of good stuff. I think its hard to say Hollywood has ever been worse than it is these days, where the output has becoming rather seismically one dimensional. Even the Marvel movies, not because they're "bad" but because they're so safe and bland and dominant, and whilst Scorcese, Nolan and Tarantino have still been able to put out some quality material but who's there to replace them? Denis Villeneuve is great but he's the only one I can think of, and he's not a spring chicken either. And there's not many actors these days I find to be worth considering stars, who are worth going to see films for, and I don't know if that's the fault of the material at this point or if Hollywood casts these days on the basis of looks and marketability over talent. I think Adam Driver is greatly talented and he does have a unique charisma. But yeah, you can't really have great actors without great films and that's kind of the bigger issue at this point. 

 

Here's something I read that really put me in this mindset. David Cronenberg stopped making movies altogether because he could no long obtain any funding. You know, one of the greatest directors of all time, who was not washed up, to the end he was making quality films, and he had to stop because no one was willing to back him anymore. 

 

 

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I'm willing to agree with the OP. The Instagram-generation isn't pushing humanity forward - even though it sure is pushing money! Half-naked girls, in their early to mid teens etc. Tons of amateur porn with young couples etc - it doesn't really matter what they do as long as they make money, and they make money with ads!

 

And ads it is! When I was a kid, the only ads you saw were on linear TV. Now you can't even watch a 30 second clip on Facebook without having an advertisement. And don't get me started on all these clickbait topics. Jesus H Christ!

 

Everybody has to look good and to do that they have to use filters on their phone camera, and spend hours on hours on putting on make-up and using the correct lights and whatnot.

 

People look at videos of other people playing games, and they even give them money for it! THEY GIVE THEM MONEY! People spend more time and money on watching other people play than on buying and playing their own games!

 

Back in the days when I was a kid I had to spend hours with floppy discs and cd-roms just to install a game - and it was always English and I could barley read it since I am a Swede - now they just click BUY and PLAY in Steam - in their own preferred language of course.

 

In the game all you have to do is take cover for a few seconds and you'll be at 100% health again - should you die you will respawn almost on the same spot.

 

It's going downhill, folks!

 

(I wonder if the 50s and 60s generation had the same thoughts about my generation)

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Welcome to life, welcome to growing up and growing old. Take the responses here as a lesson of how you can learn to adapt with the times and still enjoy things from the past. You don’t have to understand new music, games, etc. they aren’t made for just YOU. 
 

Look at all the old people (65+) that don’t know a damn thing about a computer. It isn’t because they can’t figure it out. It’s because they CHOOSE to not figure it out for the same BS reasons you’re ranting now. You can either adapt or you can be left behind, waiting for your last breath, or, you fuck off and enjoy what you want and let others do the same.

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9 hours ago, kokrean said:

I think that before 2012 the internet, games and music content was better, more beautiful and professional in spite of the low machines performance supposedly.

 

 

 

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@Old-Doomguy Instagram is the end of humanity. Only works for girls stalkers.

 

Selfies cancer become after frontal camera was added to the phones, that's unnecessary.

Edited by kokrean

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I agree that only bias makes one era seem absolutely better than another, but I also assert that it's reductive to say that no specific thing ever gets better or worse (at least with respect to some fixed value system).

 

Who here likes medieval art? I think the Book of Kells and the Bayeux Tapestry are captivating. But put them next to, say Laoöcoon and His Sons. I won't say one is objectively better, but things are profoundly different.

 

I began to wonder if something was wrong with me because no big action-adventure movie has sparked a particle of joy in me since . . . the first Avengers? I recently re-watched Conan The Barbarian for the first time in several years and I was thrilled to find that it gives me the same (frankly, spiritual) joy it did ten years ago. Without writing a wall of text exploring the specifics . . . I love oranges, but nowadays they only make apples.

 

With respect to the things in videogames that give me joy, Doom corresponds more to . . . I don't know, maybe Hotline Miami than to Doom Eternal.

 

Another specific case: I love tactical RPG's from 1989 - 1991. I've gone through phases where I'll lie awake at night formulating strategies for Wizard's Crown or Gold Box. But once VGA graphics took off and people suddenly went crazy designing turn-based games for all-mouse-control-all-the-time, I can't stand those games. Eye of the Beholder? Sorry, I just haven't managed to get into it.

 

Even with current indie games, there are lots of design norms that I can't stand - handholding, lock-ins, 'Progress Quest' meters to fill up for everything, etc. etc.

 

Or just compare Doom 2 to Quake 1. The creative factors/process changed and suddenly FPS games became catastrophically less free and fertile. Many of us have a clear favorite, between the two.

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“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”


― Socrates

 

Not sure if it was Apocryphal or not but I will just leave this here...

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I dont care much for many games nowadays....exception of a few rpgs here and there....couple of shooters but not many....good games are few and far between sadly...ymmv

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Anime is better now than it's ever been before. Devilman Crybaby is an embarrassing pile of excrement though. And while I'm at it, fuck Aggretsuko. 

Edited by Ajora

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You're so right. I'm 13, and my favorite films are Rushmore and Love and Death. My favorite bands are Simon and Garfunkel and The Grateful Dead. My favorite singer/songwriter is Bob Dylan. My favorite poet is E.E. Cummings. I read 50 pages of books a day at least. I read and write poetry as a hobby. My favorite comedians are Jim Jefferies, Bill Burr, John Mulaney, and Dave Chappelle. Oh, and as I write this, I am listening to Blood on the Tracks by Bob Dylan (I'm on If You See Her Say Hello) for the 10th time this year. But you know what, you're right, we all are the same. 

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29 minutes ago, Ajora said:

Anime is better now than it's ever been before. Devilman Crybaby is an embarrassing pile of excrement though. And while I'm at it, fuck Aggretsuko. 

You dare talk shit about Aggretsuko? Have at it!

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Maybe I always lived under a rock but I haven't followed trends and most memes even 10 years ago. I was always into niche things. Trends just come and ago regardless of generation.

Edited by Chezza

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I am a crotchety old man in my own ways despite my preaching earlier, just want to admit my hypocrisy here. I think most modern music and video games are crap. I just remember also feeling that way in about 1999 when the Spice Girls were at peak fame and all my school friends thought those new N64 era shooters were “so much more advanced than Doom”.

 

I was just a dumb little kid (as opposed to a dumb big adult) but even then I was starting to feel “cultural displacement” or something like that, and it hasn’t changed. It’s always seemed to me that the majority of what is floated upon the populous is rubbish, so I can’t tell where the bad times are meant to start and the good times were meant to end. Well, except for the internet. I think any 90’s net using nerds can agree the old internet died somewhere between the start of MySpace and the start of YouTube.

 

4 hours ago, kokrean said:

@Danzer I'm not old I'm just 21.

Man, you missed some of the best times the internet had to offer. It felt so much more special and home-made back then, being online felt like being a part of a small community of some sort, before everyone and everything required it..

 

Kids these days!

They don’t know.

They missed out..

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4 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

being online felt like being a part of a small community of some sort

 

You mean kind of like what you're doing right now on this very website, my friend? ;^) :^P

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Exactly!! The only reason I feel that way about the old net is my weird obsession with rose tinted goggles, even when I don’t want them. there was actually nothing objectively better about it! It was slower and sites were way harder to find because search engines used caveman-level search techniques. If you plucked a modern net user up and put them in 98 they’d hate it, rofl.

 

I guarantee there were people waxing nostalgic about the horse and buggy as a “more proper method of transportation” when cars first started hitting it big. The propensity towards nostalgia is weird as all hell. I guess it makes sense to build a fondness of things you know well but we should always check ourselves once in a while..!

 

Hey, since it's on topic, if you really do want to see what the world of Doom websites looked like in the 90's, here's almost 300 old Doom sites. https://doomshack.org/olddoomsites.html

 

Modern net users would probably puke at most of these, but they remind me of being a kid!

Edited by Doomkid

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11 hours ago, Ajora said:

Anime is better now than it's ever been before. Devilman Crybaby is an embarrassing pile of excrement though.

 

Okay I did have kind of a knee jerk response to this but it wasn't helpful so instead.

 

Why? 

 

And just to save you time, if the reason its going to be its too violent or has too much sexual content, that's not a very good reason, because at least if you watch it to the end, it's very apparent why it is the way it is and what point it's making. I am hoping you at least watched all of it. If its something else, then it would be worth going into I think. 

 

Devilman Crybaby wasn't my favourite take on the material exactly, I don't think it was as good as the original manga, and though unfinished the 1988-1990 OVAs were like, the best adaptations by a long way, but most of what makes the story tick was present in some form in Crybaby. But somehow, less subtle, and it's impressive to be less subtle than Go Nagai, although I would still class it as more subtle than Jojo at least.

 

The biggest fault it had, and it is a major fault with what Crybaby was trying to be; it was the first time the whole story was getting adapted. So lets ah, do it in a way in which you have to be familiar with the original material to better understand some points because Crybaby glossed over them a bit too much. Definitely a problem, the Devilman Lady anime avoided that completely by being its own story entirely, and the issue with Crybaby is it tries to be both and then fit it all in 10 episodes and of course that causes problems. 

 

But to call it what you said suggests that you place far too much on disapproval of its methods, and I would like the chance to lay out why its methods are necessary to make the points its trying to make.

 

And in fact, in case I didn't already say this to @seed , don't start with Devilman Crybaby. Start with the manga if you can, or at least the OVAs. It's impractical given Crybaby is the new thing and all but it's not really a very good introduction to what Devilman is given the Director's very different approach to the visuals and the fact as an adaptation it takes quite a few liberties. It's more of a different thing than a direct adaptation for sure. 

 

Edited by hybridial

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10 hours ago, Chezza said:

Maybe I always lived under a rock but I haven't followed trends and most memes even 10 years ago. I was always was into niche things. Trends just come and ago regardless of generation

 

Me too, but up to this day some people would still sincerely tell me most of my preferences are still just following trends lmfao. And I always tell them the same thing: "Oh yeah? Well come back and see me in 20 years, see how much has changed", then they shut up. And no doubt stuff WILL change with time, but not to the extent they're dreaming, like a full 180. The kind of people who unironically think everything is just a phase, you know.

 

14 hours ago, kokrean said:

I'm not old I'm just 21.

 

And with that I'm severely doubting the authenticity of this whole thing now. Are you also the "born in the wrong generation" kind of person?

 

17 hours ago, hybridial said:

I don't know about that really, I wouldn't deny there's always been bad stuff, but what I'm getting at is there is a genuine lack of good stuff. I think its hard to say Hollywood has ever been worse than it is these days, where the output has becoming rather seismically one dimensional. Even the Marvel movies, not because they're "bad" but because they're so safe and bland and dominant

 

That's actually what I was going to say as a counterpoint. IMO superhero movies and TV shows (cartoons/anime not counted) are better than they've ever been nowadays, and sure just like anything, there was good stuff here in the past too, but much of it just doesn't hold a candle to the new stuff. Apart from the Tim Burton Batman movies and the Adam West series, I honestly struggle to think of good stuff from the more distant past in this department.

 

I don't expect you to agree here though, that's just my two cents, you've already said why you're not fond of the Burton Batman duology for instance.

 

Regardless, yes, no more risk taking and soullessness is what is pretty much killing Hollywood and the triple-A industry nowadays, barely anyone tries something truly innovative anymore because it needs to sell on top of everything, back when the industry was smaller these concerns did not exist and people just did what they wanted... and if they do now, they have to start a trend, or bomb/end up DOA...

 

Even the indie scene is doing it relatively safe, but nowhere near as much as the triple-A one.

Edited by seed

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Just now, seed said:

That's actually what I was going to say as a counterpoint. IMO superhero movies and TV shows (cartoons/anime not counted) are better than they've ever been nowadays, and sure just like anything, there was good stuff here in the past too, but much of it just doesn't hold a candle to the new stuff. Apart from the Tim Burton Batman movies and the Adam West series, I honestly struggle to think of good stuff from the more distant past in this department.

 

Whilst that is true in some ways, I don't think they're all that great. There's not many that really go into any heady material, like they do it less than previous quality cartoon series' in the genre, like I have no problem saying the mental age range these movies and live action shows are actually aimed at is less than say, any of the DCAU stuff. There's been an exception or two here or there, The Winter Soldier and Civil War were pretty strong, but you know, for one of those there's about 10 that are just samey and safe and boring, and as someone who just wants to I guess be taken away by a genre movie somewhat, not just mildly entertained/distracted, I do think these movies don't really do that. Hell, I do the think to a point the DC movies tried a little more to be that, but they failed spectacularly and then gave up. 

 

I liked the Nolan movies mostly, I thought Watchmen was by some miracle not bad at all, and yeah some Marvel movies are in all fairness quite good, but I was sick of them years ago and I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel anytime soon. 

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2 minutes ago, hybridial said:

Whilst that is true in some ways, I don't think they're all that great. There's not many that really go into any heady material, like they do it less than previous quality cartoon series' in the genre, like I have no problem saying the mental age range these movies and live action shows are actually aimed at is less than say, any of the DCAU stuff. There's been an exception or two here or there, The Winter Soldier and Civil War were pretty strong, but you know, for one of those there's about 10 that are just samey and safe and boring, and as someone who just wants to I guess be taken away by a genre movie somewhat, not just mildly entertained/distracted, I do think these movies don't really do that. Hell, I do the think to a point the DC movies tried a little more to be that, but they failed spectacularly and then gave up. 

 

I liked the Nolan movies mostly, I thought Watchmen was by some miracle not bad at all, and yeah some Marvel movies are in all fairness quite good, but I was sick of them years ago and I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel anytime soon. 

 

Yeah, but some of the recent DC Cinematic stuff from the recent years also kinda just flopped, but Marvel had its lower points as well.

 

For me, not absolutely everything needs to be truly new and risky though, yeah in the case of games and movies in general that tends to be a whole different story because the market is oversaturated at this point with a mountain of "samey-ness". But with superhero movies and TV shows I tend not to mind that almost at all, if the current recipe is good enough for me, then more of the same is just fine. Sometimes there's no need to fix what ain't broken, just do what works.

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@Doomkid Yes, I have a little a bit of nostalgia, I'm not saying that everything new is bad, but talent is being lost and everything is getting out of control and that has never been seen, is supposed that the newer things are better but not in this times for me.

 

Spoiler

 

(Metal with smartphones? what?)

 

 

 

At least the computers have alot of gigaflops and flying vehicles are coming.

Edited by kokrean

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18 minutes ago, kokrean said:

(Metal with smartphones? what?)

I'm pretty sure you missed the point there.. 

It's a critique of the smartphone obsessed world we live on, I mean, the lyrics are really explicit about it :

"Crave the machine
 Revere the screen
 Zoom in for flak and misery 
 Bleed some pixels

 ...

 Feeding the beast
 In your loud Egoland
 You have become
 Tool of a tool 
 Digital ghouls
 Telling you to 
 Shut up and dance!

 ..."

 

(and this is my first time seeing the clip and listening to the song)

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Just now, kalaeth said:

I'm pretty sure you missed the point there.. 

 

Yeah, I don't think its a particularly great song (Nightwish haven't been... great in some time) but I feel its meaning is pretty straightforward, I wouldn't be surprised if Floor Jansen had some input as After Forever did a number of songs that were similar critiques, that were I'd say better songs as well. 

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@kalaeth In the 90's nightwish was a traditional nice gothic symphonic metal band but after 2002 when tarja leaves the band becomes a garbage. Before was better.

 

Edited by kokrean

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not gonna see me disagreeing with that @kokrean, I'm a Tarja fanboy as far as Nightwish is concerned. In fact, for me, wishmaster is their last album that I really really like, but the rest isn't bad (and still a few thousand kilometers above evanescences and company) and this particular song you posted is a very common talking point. In fact I think the song and this thread touch the exact same points, although from a different perspective (since they are older they rage about stuff that for you was already normal when you were growing up). 

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