Responding to GmanLives' Unity Doom video (Removed)

[GibFrag]

I don’t recall him mentioning GZDoom in his comparison, especially with the secret sound effect. It seems like he is now backpedaling. 

[SteelPH]

Comparing it to GZDoom is utterly pointless, considering it was never based on GZDoom in the first place. It's like comparing an apple to an orange whose tree was pumped full of steroids that also seeped into its fruit.

[GibFrag]

That’s the thing, he wasn’t comparing it to GZDoom until he got called out for the secret message sound, then suddenly it became a GZDoom comparison, which like you said, that’s totally pointless and it’s untrue. He made a mistake and refuses to own up to it. It’s so simple... 

 

he could post a comment in the video and pin the comment like so:

”hey mates, it’s GMan and I wanted to let you all know that when I said X, I was misinformed. The real information is Y.” This would not only ensure people got the right info, but it would keep him from looking like a douche -but that’s not how he does things. Instead, it isn’t his fault for making a mistake, it’s YOUR fault for calling him out on it. 

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

In summary Gman isn't a Doom expert and his ego precludes him from admitting he's made a mistake. I don't think there's very much to interpret here.

[Murdoch]

And he's just privated the video. He commented himself on one such post that the poster was getting angry over nothing when there was nary a hint of anger in what the guy said. No insults. Not even any words in all caps.

 

Honestly, the guy has degenerated into an abrasive jackass and judging by some of the comments to people who were calmly pointing out the many mistakes he made, he has a hardcore fanbase who are just as obnoxious.

[TemperInferno64]

He did admit to his mistake and actually took it down. This thread is toxic af.

[TotalTS]

Honestly I don't follow much of Gmanlives' content, but saw the Sigil video and the Moon Man Doom video and I didn't agree with his views.

As a first impression, I thought this was a video shitting on him by looking at the title, but I think it's a very constructive way to criticise content and kinda the stuff I like to see on Youtube. As for highlights, I liked how you stated that gatekeeping is not cool and talked a little more deep about the source ports.

Anyway, great work, suscribed.

[Murdoch]

8 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Haha damn, he commented the literal minute this video was uploaded! What he said was weird too..

Does this actually mean anything? I can’t seem to derive any meaning from it. Yes, responding to a person’s numerous incorrect statements takes time. What’s the message?

 

I tried to make it clear my intention wasn’t to offend, just to state the truth about Doom..

 

It is pretty clear that to a guy like him, pointing out his mistakes does offend him.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Murdoch

[GibFrag]

2 minutes ago, TemperInferno64 said:

He did admit to his mistake and actually took it down. This thread is toxic af.

Only when he realized this wasn’t going to just be brushed off like his other errors did he do anything, and if this thread is so toxic, you still found a reason to post. Nobody is trying to ruin him and nobody would be mad if he didn’t treat people like shit when they correct him on mistakes. He will be fine. You will be fine. 

[Senor500]

Honestly I don't like how everything went down, but at least he recognized the video had bad points.

But to feel abused and insulted, you could say it is just victimizing but some people were really going overboard with this, and he said he's done with OG Doom content for now, I think he took it the wrong way.

[GibFrag]

There wasn’t abuse and insult until he responded to people with an attitude. HE handled this wrong, not anybody else. Doomkids video is not an attack on GMan. It is a critique of the video in question, not a witch hunt of him as a person. 

[Wild Dog]

23 minutes ago, TemperInferno64 said:

He did admit to his mistake and actually took it down. This thread is toxic af.

Wait what?  Toxic how??? Having a differente opinion is toxic???

 

11 minutes ago, Gerolf said:

There wasn’t abuse and insult until he responded to people with an attitude. HE handled this wrong, not anybody else. Doomkids video is not an attack on GMan. It is a critique of the video in question, not a witch hunt of him as a person. 

 

The issue with Gman is that he has a lot of  edgy followers and lately he's been acting like an edge lord... Every single release of an old game made by a corporation seems to be crappy and not up to his standards.....

 

 

 

As a side note i'm quite happy that Bethesda updated for free the old Steam release... But even that seems to but something "eviiiillll" done by the Corporations....

Edited September 14, 2020 by Wild Dog

[UndeadRyker]

Dang, this is confusing. From what I'm getting, GmanLives had a few misguided points that were corrected in Doomkids video, then he tried to defend those points in a rather passive-aggressive way backpedaling and doing some gaslighting, and now he's getting tons of hate? Then he takes down the video? Is that right?

 

My two cents as a small video producer (I'm sure Doomkid would say the same) is that it's rather stressful creating and producing videos that are meant to be informative. I personally like to make sure my videos aren't misleading in any way possible, but I feel like I don't worry as much because I'm a smaller channel. If I make a mistake, it's not like I'm screwing over everyone and that can easily be fixed with a pinned comment or something like that. However, he runs a bigger channel and has a reputation to maintain. Not only that, but it's mentally draining and I can see why GmanLives would be put in a bad spot and get defensive. I get really anxious when I receive feedback on my informative videos. I've even taken a seriously long break from publishing videos that are meant to be informative about Doom. You really have to be mindful of the small details and ever since I uploaded my video that actually took a Phoenix Wright meme-induced spin on Doomkid's video towards GameTheory, I'd be lying to say that I don't doubt any of the information I've provided in my video at least a little bit. It actually stresses me out, and I'd hate to be seen as a liar or someone being malicious. I can't help but let my mind wander and question myself. Maybe my wording's a bit off. Maybe I misinterpreted something or even spread misinformation that I learned from someone else into this new video of mine I'm not aware of. It's certainly quite a big responsibility to take.

 

That doesn't mean that GmanLives should take all criticism as an attack on his intelligence as it seems to be what he was doing. If there really were people that insulted him over a video, then obviously they should've took a step back and been somewhat more understanding. They should've realized that Gman was doing this all with a good heart, and it was clear that he wanted to help people learn about the game and the Unity port. But, pulling the "I'm just an entertainer" card by saying "this was only meant to entertain" when you were clearly trying to inform others and explain something (let alone keep defending your wrong points while being passive aggressive) just makes you look like an untrustworthy source of information, irresponsible, and immature.

 

I hope this can be resolved without any more drama and that we can all learn from this.

Edited September 14, 2020 by UndeadRyker : grammar. I need to stop repeating myself.

[Murdoch]

So calmly pointing out mistakes is abusing and insulting? Unless he is copping something on social media, he's being a little bit thin skinned. I skimmed the comments on YouTube and what I saw seemed pretty rational.

[Senor500]

14 minutes ago, Wild Dog said:

As a side note i'm quite happy that Bethesda updated for free the old Steam release... But even that seems to but something "eviiiillll" done by the Corporations....

To be fair, he did say he couldn't complain about getting that for free, as shown in Doomkid's video too. As for the rest of things, yeah he definitely has an attitude.

[Wild Dog]

4 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

So calmly pointing out mistakes is abusing and insulting?.

 

Sadly in this day and age, seems to be the case...

 

"Hey you are pointing my mistakes!!! THAT'S HATE SPEECH!!!

[Wild Dog]

2 minutes ago, Senor500 said:

To be fair, he did say he couldn't complain about getting that for free, as shown in Doomkid's video too. As for the rest of things, yeah he definitely has an attitude.

I was not talking about him, but about some of gman followers...

[AtimZarr1]

Good on him at least for being able to recognize that he was mistaken and that his video could misinform others. He could've just turned off the comments as some channels do with their controversial videos, but he chose to take it down instead. Although I think it would've been better if he edited/re-did parts of the video for a reupload, but it seems like he isn't planning on correcting the video unfortunately. Hopefully he learns to be more careful when researching for a topic in the future.

[GarrettChan]

Doomkid video never lets me down for real.

 

First, none of Doomkid's points sounds like personal attack, so see, comments like this in this thread:

46 minutes ago, TemperInferno64 said:

He did admit to his mistake and actually took it down. This thread is toxic af.

is very disgusting. I don't know how Gman's fan base talks to somebody else like this or whatnot, but now it seems this Gman took things like insulting or whatever and had somebody insulted back at Doomkid's video is just very annoying. Yeah, for Youtube, probably you are more "correct" if you had a bigger "fan base". Anyway, I don't watch this Gman's stuff from long time ago, so whatever to me. However, talking about the ideal way is to playing UV is another thing I really hate. This probably is the root of why a bunch of people are just obsessed with UV and when they find out some mapsets on UV are way too hard to their skill level, they just call that mapset BS.

 

Then, the act of implementing the Unity port is obviously a good thing because it's easier to access. When people sometimes are not very serious about the game, they probably just want easy access to play it, and Unity port fits the bill. They don't need to get used to the DosBox one and don't need to look up how to setup a sourceport to play it. On the other hand, whether the Unity port being good is another story for sure. I personally think the Unity has many problems, including the weird control feelings, but this doesn't defy the efforts that Bethesda implemented a port just for convenience sake. I probably will never play on B's port, but I still think it's definitely correct to do so, just for this old game's exposure.

 

Lastly, comparing GZDoom with vanilla (or limit-removing) supporting ports has no meaningful outcome. For me, I don't play any GZDoom mods, but I don't deny the existence of GZDoom either. Also, I never would say that GZDoom is not the way to play Doom. The furthest I would go is suggesting people using a more precise port like PrBoom+ to play vanilla maps. Given the fact that GZDoom's menus are very overwhelming, it takes unnecessary amount of work to make it close to the actual behaviors of different type of Doom formats.

Edited September 14, 2020 by GarrettChan

[Biodegradable]

I had a feeling after watching this video last night that it would cause a stir here and I'm glad the Kid's the one leading the charge with an excellent response video. While I'm definitely not nearly as learned in all things Doom like Kid and a lot of you guys are, in the 3 and a half months since I've been here playing the game every day and learning about its history both in terms of its original development and technology it was built on, as well as learning everything there is to know about what the community has built in regards to mapping projects, programming the various source-ports and (still trying admittedly) the differences between Vanilla and Altered Doom between said source-ports and their features; I knew Gman's video was off. Naturally, I wasn't able to catch everything, but I definitely noticed these specific flubs:

 

• Claiming the Unity port is a "remake" of id Tech 1 instead of just a port of id Tech 1 using Unity as a wrapper for accessibility purposes. Oops!
•  Using GZDoom as a comparison when talking about the Unity port's Vanilla aspects. Double oops!
• Comparing the music between the Unity port's use of Bobby Prince's original compositions to GZDoom's altered default soundfont. I only just started learning about soundfonts myself not too long ago thanks to Kid's other videos, so what timing!
• Completely misunderstanding how other source-ports work, suggesting that other ports support modding to the same extent as GZDoom when it's one of the only ports that's powerful enough to have full support thanks to its advancements way beyond the base of the original engine. Meanwhile most other ports are more dedicated to Vanilla accuracy, so they aren't as extensive in terms of mod support. In fact, it might be just me, but it seems like he was inferring that id Tech 1 could support powerful mods like Brutal Doom right out of the box without a source-port. Oh dear.

 

I 'spose I could also note the gatekeeping with him making jabs at people using different difficulty levels or playing the game with a controller, but I'm not sure how much of that is said in jest and how much is in earnest. Most of us in the community agree wholeheartedly that there's no wrong way to play Doom, so even if it's just a gag, it's not a particularly funny one and would only encourage some meat-heads in his audience into becoming gatekeeping elitists.

 

His video very much reinforces what I've said about Gman before in a different thread. That being that I think he really does unfortunately lack a lot of credibility due to his evident disregard for basic forms of research when it comes to his reviews, especially when it comes to Classic Doom. Considering how quick he is to pump these videos out whenever there's something new to talk about, I think it's safe to say he does less than the bare minimum to get the videos up as soon as possible. Regardless, it's a shame he's interpreted people addressing his mistakes as harassment. Perhaps there were some people in the comments section of his video who were hurling shit at him or perhaps on other platforms since the video was uploaded, but I wouldn't know. As much I think he's pretty bad at his job, nobody deserves to be harassed for this sort of thing, if he experienced any that is. Incidentally, I'm not sure if he was being sarcastic or passive-aggressive in the comment he left on Kid's video, nor do I understand what his actual point was, so I'm not going to jump to any conclusions there. But I do commend you, Doomkid, for elaborating that while Gman got a lot of things wrong in his video, that you weren't trying to shit on him and were just covering everything in a purely constructive manner. You did a really stellar job, fam. I also commend Gman for at least taking responsibility for his mistakes by taking the video down since it is rife with misinformation. I'd personally like to see him remake the video addressing where he buggered up, corrects all the misinformation and perhaps even acknowledges Doomkid's video. That'd be cool of him.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Biodegradable

[Wild Dog]

6 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

 

I 'spose I could also note the gatekeeping with him making jabs at people using different difficulty levels or playing the game the a controller, but I'm not sure how much of that is said in jest and how much is in earnest. Most of us in the community agree wholeheartedly that there's no wrong way to play Doom, so even if it's just a gag, it's not a particularly funny one and would only encourage some meat-heads in his audience into becoming gatekeeping elitists.

 

His video very much reinforces what I've said about Gman before in a different thread that he really does unfortunately lack credibility due to his evident disregard for basic forms of research when it comes to his reviews, especially when it comes to Classic Doom.

 

He used to be funny and make some good points on some ports and older games.. I used to have a nice time with the videos he made... But then he started to become more "edgy" to please most of the fans to the point that know the videos he post are most of the time full of wrong info, elitist crap and just non sense....

[MassiveEdgelord]

Man I only thought he got small stuff wrong in his videos, like saying Jeanette Voerman from VTMB was schizophrenic.

 

3 hours ago, Pseudonaut said:

"GZDoom is the ideal way to play Doom" is another weird statement from him. To describe any one port as "the ideal way to play Doom" is missing the big picture. Different ports have different strengths and weaknesses. And GZDoom has several weaknesses that are done much better by other ports; vanilla accuracy and demo recording come to mind.

Zandronum  is the best port tho. I've literally never had to use another one since installing it.

Edited September 14, 2020 by MassiveEdgelord

[Wild Dog]

2 minutes ago, MassiveEdgelord said:

Man I only thought he got small stuff wrong in his videos, like saying Jeanette Voerman from VTMB was schizophrenic.

 

Zanodrum is the best port tho. I've literally never had to use another one since installing it.

And that's the magic of the source ports, we have enough for every single taste... For me the best port is Chocolate Doom.

I don't think there is THE best port, just different ports with differentes ideas behind them.

[SteelPH]

1 minute ago, Wild Dog said:

And that's the magic of the source ports, we have enough for every single taste... For me the best port is Chocolate Doom.

I don't think there is THE best port, just different ports with differentes ideas behind them.

The best port is whichever one tailors to your interests.

[Rajerel]

2 hours ago, Pseudonaut said:

"GZDoom is the ideal way to play Doom" is another weird statement from him. To describe any one port as "the ideal way to play Doom" is missing the big picture. Different ports have different strengths and weaknesses. And GZDoom has several weaknesses that are done much better by other ports; vanilla accuracy and demo recording come to mind.

GMan seems to fail to understand how Doom is meant to be played in the preference of each individual, maybe one likes to play the pure vanilla experience, but another person likes Freelook and modern conveniences, GMan thinks its either one, or the other, it just doesn't make sense tbh

[deepthaw]

Quick everyone, somebody is wrong on the Internet!

 

Sure, he should have known better. But a fifteen minute critique video (with WRONG in all caps) that wastes time complaining about a Beatles joke seems like a weird overreaction.

[NoXion]

2 minutes ago, deepthaw said:

Quick everyone, somebody is wrong on the Internet!

 

Sure, he should have known better. But a fifteen minute critique video (with WRONG in all caps) that wastes time complaining about a Beatles joke seems like a weird overreaction.

It's not like those fifteen minutes were all spent critiquing one dumb joke. There were a number of misconceptions addressed in Doomkid's video.

[GibFrag]

Yeah, sounds like someone didn’t watch the video. 

[Eric Claus]

1 hour ago, Wild Dog said:

As a side note i'm quite happy that Bethesda updated for free the old Steam release... But even that seems to but something "eviiiillll" done by the Corporations....

 

Honestly I think this is a mentality that should be taken.  It is alright to criticize a company or point out when you disagree with their direction, but they should still be lauded when they do something more in line with what people like (the recent updates being one of those good things).  If you are damned if you do and damned if you don't why even waste the time.

[NoXion]

They walked back the always-online thing, didn't they? That's a step in the right direction I would have thought.